1ST PETER WAS WRITTEN TO ISRAEL

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Doug

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Well the church is one body and it is the body of Christ! The church is not two bodies! think man!
There is not just one church the body of Christ

There is the church in the wilderness
[Act 7:38 KJV] 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Paul persecuted the church of God
[1Co 15:9 KJV] 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
 

David Lamb

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There is not just one church the body of Christ

There is the church in the wilderness
[Act 7:38 KJV] 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Paul persecuted the church of God
[1Co 15:9 KJV] 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
So when we read:

“Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,” (Eph 5:25 NKJV)

Which church does Paul mean? And again here:

“And He put all [things] under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all [things] to the church,” (Eph 1:22 NKJV)
 
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Doug

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So when we read:

“Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,” (Eph 5:25 NKJV)

Which church does Paul mean? And again here:

“And He put all [things] under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all [things] to the church,” (Eph 1:22 NKJV)
First of all it must be recognized that Ephesians 5:25 was written by Paul and the passage you cited was a mystery that was revealed to us by Paul

[Eph 5:32 KJV] 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

That said it would apply to all the churches but specific content would apply to the body of Christ because marriage was fully manifested by Paul by it.

Now Ephesians 1:22 says all things so it would include all churches but it is specific to the body of Christ where Cjrist is the head
 

Ronald Nolette

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There is not just one church the body of Christ

There is the church in the wilderness
[Act 7:38 KJV] 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Paul persecuted the church of God
[1Co 15:9 KJV] 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
Paul persecuted the body of Christ-the church before he became part of the church of God

And sadly the "church in the wilderness" is poor. ekklesia means assembly and this refers to Israel when they were wandering in the wilderness.

The church wasn't born until Pentecost and is composed of both saved Jew and Gentile
 

Doug

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And sadly the "church in the wilderness" is poor. ekklesia means assembly and this refers to Israel when they were wandering in the wilderness.
It is an assembly but Israel received the covenant in the wilderness and rightly called a church
 

Doug

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The church wasn't born until Pentecost and is composed of both saved Jew and Gentile
The church was formed before Pentecost

Christ formed the church of God during his earthly ministry

[Mat 16:18 KJV] 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
[Mat 18:17 KJV] 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Pentecost did not form the church the body of Christ

Peter was preaching to Israel

[Act 2:14, 21-22, 36 KJV] 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: ... 21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: ... 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Pentecost was said to be prophecy fullment

[Act 2:16-17 KJV] 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Those who believed were added to the existing church formed by Jesus and the twelve

[Act 2:41, 45 KJV] 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls. ... 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need.

The body of Christ hadn't been revealed to Pau; yet
 

ScottA

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By examining verses in the books written by Peter, it can be determined that his writing is to the believing remnant of Israel, not to the church, the body of Christ.

1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Israel was referred to as strangers when they were in Egypt in Exodus 22:21. The Lord called them strangers in Leviticus 25:23. Gentiles were called strangers, because they were not of the house of Israel (Leviticus 17:8).

The strangers Peter wrote to in this letter were not Gentiles. The lands in verse 1 were Gentile nations; Gentiles could not be strangers in their own Gentile lands. Peter called his recipients strangers and pilgrims who were to have their conversation (lives) honest among the Gentiles, this would exclude them being Gentiles (1 Peter 2:11-12). Peter also recalled their past behavior as working the will of the Gentiles, thereby eliminating them as being Gentiles (1 Peter 4:3).

Israel rebelled against the Lord and would not walk in his statutes, neither would they keep his judgements, so the Lord purposed to scatter them through the countries in Ezekiel 20:21-23 (Psalm 44:11).

The believing remnant of Israel was also scattered in Acts 8:1.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Peter says the remnant of Israel has been begotten again by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Israel could have the firm hope that Christ was raised from the dead to sit on the throne of David in the kingdom on earth (Acts 2:30 Luke 1:32-33).

The remnant of Israel was promised to reign with Christ over the nations when Christ comes to establish his kingdom on earth (Exodus 19:5-6 Isaiah 61:6 Isaiah 60:3).

Israel was the firstborn of God (Exodus 4:22), and to enter the kingdom, Israel had to be born again of the Spirit (John 3:3-5).

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

For the believing nation of Israel, salvation will be revealed at the last time, after the tribulation period, at the coming of Christ. They however, had to be steadfast, and endure til the end (Acts 3:21 Hebrews 3:14 Mark 13:13).

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Israel will be tried by fire, and refined, to be purified and prepared for the coming of Christ (Isaiah 48:10 Malachi 3:2-3 Zechariah 13:7-9 Matthew 3:11).

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

If the remnant remained faithful until the end, they would inherit the promise of the kingdom (Hebrews 10:36-39 Luke 21:19).

1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

At the revelation of Christ, at his coming, Israel will receive salvation. Israel will receive grace by the fulfillment of the new covenant. Under the new covenant, God will, by his Spirit, cause Israel to keep the law for righteousness, give them the promised land, and forgive their iniquity (Zechariah 12:10 Romans 11:26 Jeremiah 31:31-34 Deuteronomy 30:5-9 Ezekiel 36:24-28).

Peter preached unto Israel, to repent, and be converted, that their sins would be blotted out, at the coming of Christ Jesus (Acts 3:19). Israel, as a nation, had to wait until the coming of Christ to realize forgiveness.

1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Peter, in Acts 10:34-35 says, that whoever works righteousness is accepted of God. Peter, in the above verse, is saying to the remnant, that their works would be judged to determine entrance into the kingdom on earth (Psalm 103:17-18).

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Once again, Peter speaks of being born again, which pertains to Israel. Israel as a nation, was born of God (Exodus 4:22 Jeremiah 31:9). Jews were born of flesh as Israel but, had to be born again of the Spirit, to be the Israel of God, the Israel of faith (John 3:6-7 Romans 9:6-8 Galatians 6:16).

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Peter says the remnant are lively stones, which should be compared to Matthew 3:9, in which, Israel was admonished not to think that just because they had Abraham as their father, they were accepted of God.

The remnant of Israel would be the holy priesthood according to Exodus 19:5-6, Revelation 5:10, and Revelation 20:6.

1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Christ was to be received by Israel as the chief corner stone according to Psalm 118:22 (Isaiah 28:16 Romans 9:31-33 Matthew 21:42). The remnant of Israel believed on Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

It was the Israel of faith that received Jesus as Messiah, the Son of God, who are a royal priesthood, an holy nation. The earthly kingdom was taken from unbelieving Israel, and given to believing Israel, as seen in Matthew 21:43 (Isaiah 61:6 Psalm 33:12 Genesis 12:2).

1 Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

God said of the believing remnant of Israel, they are now the people of God (Hosea 1:9-11 and Hosea 2:23). Peter in saying they are now the people of God and applying Hosea to them is identifying them as the believing remnant of Israel; Hosea is not speaking of Gentiles.

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Israel is specifically identified in Isaiah 53:5-6 as the ones healed; Christ was wounded for their transgressions, and bruised for their iniquities.

It is Israel who has returned unto their Shepherd (Psalm 80:1).

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

By being baptized, Israel justified God (Luke 7:29). Israel had to be baptized to be physically saved to enter the kingdom (Mark 16:16). For Israel, belief in the name of Jesus, and baptism was required for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). Israel had to be baptized for the remission of sins to be cleansed for the priesthood in the kingdom on earth (Exodus 29:4 Luke 3:3 Revelation 5:10). The resurrection of Christ gave assurance to Israel that their baptism would save them, in that, Christ being alive, would return to establish the promised kingdom on earth to Israel, in which, they will receive the new covenant.

1 Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

Again, Here Peter is distinguishing his audience as being Israel, in saying they had wrought the will of the Gentiles. God exhorted Israel not to be like the Gentiles in Leviticus 18:24-30.

1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

In Isaiah 48:10 the Lord has chosen Israel in the furnace of affliction to refine them, that they might obtain their future salvation at the Lord's coming.

1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

To be saved to enter the kingdom, Israel had to be righteous (Matthew 5:20 Psalm 1:5-6 Isaiah 64:5 Proverb 11:31 Ezekiel 18:24 Hebrews 10:38-39

1 Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

The elders and overseers of Israel were to feed the flock of God, the people of God (Ezekiel 34:30-31 Ezekiel 34:2-3 Acts 20:28).

1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth ...
As a light unto the gentiles much of the scriptures written to Israel are applicable to all.

But the key word in Peter's writings [was] "now" indicating that he spoke to [that] generation and those still alive, that they too should remain faithful to their calling as a light unto the gentiles.
 

Davy

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If you read my posts I cite verses to support my teaching......where is the fib?
I may be wrong but am opened minded and dont resist changing my mind if needed

Since I have conversed with you on this form, I have NEVER known you to change your mind after you have been shown the Biblical evidence in a matter. My advice to you is the old proverb that, "It is better to remain silent and thought to be foolish, than to speak up and remove all doubt."
 

Doug

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Since I have conversed with you on this form, I have NEVER known you to change your mind after you have been shown the Biblical evidence in a matter. My advice to you is the old proverb that, "It is better to remain silent and thought to be foolish, than to speak up and remove all doubt."
It could be that the scripture evidence presented did not uphold objections......without specifics I cant be expected to elaborate
Give some recent threads or replies we can deal with where I am wrong
 

Ronald Nolette

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It is an assembly but Israel received the covenant in the wilderness and rightly called a church
No, they were a people and a nation. Ekklesia was a term used to say they were an assembly. You will not find them a church in anyother passage in Scripture. And calling it a church is disregarding even what Jesus said.

He did not recognize Israel as His church.

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Notice this is future tense? Jesus had not yet begun to build HIS church. I belong to Jesus church and all who trust in teh death and resurrection of Jesus for their sins since Pentecost are part of Jesus' church. Nobody else in the past.
 

Davy

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If you read my posts I cite verses to support my teaching......where is the fib?
I may be wrong but am opened minded and dont resist changing my mind if needed

That answer to your question is EASY! But you REFUSE TO LISTEN TO THE WORD OF GOD about it.

Do you actually think that by me quoting Bible Scripture a lot, and giving a lot of Bible references that I am speaking MY own word? My calling is to make The Scriptures easier... to understand, speaking plainly. That is why I take the time for line upon line Bible coverage.

You are supposed to LOOK UP THOSE SCRIPTURES I REFER TO, and that is how you check me out in God's Word, just like those at Berea did with Apostle Paul's preaching! (And no, I am not comparing my calling with Paul's Ministry from Christ.)


YOU SAID in your post #11:
____________________________________

"You are right in saying Peter was writing to Jewish believers of the church,,,,but which church?.... Peter wrote to those who were part of the believing remnant of Israel, not to the body of Christ revealed by Paul

Gentiles in the body of Christ were never called by Paul a nation or a priesthood"

_________________________________________

You have NO BIBLICAL PROOF that the 'believing remnant of Israel' is NOT part of Christ's Church!

Instead, you have put your trust in CHARLATANS who taught you that LIE!

Furthermore, when Jesus promised HIS ELECT that will reign with Him in His future Kingdom, He said He made us 'kings' and 'priests'.


ALL... of the following Bible Scriptures are ABOUT CHRIST'S CHURCH and HIS HAVING MADE US PRIESTS, WHICH IS THE "HOLY PRIESTHOOD" PETER WAS REFERRING TO...


Rev 20:6
6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
KJV

Since you REJECT the idea that Christ Jesus made His faithful Church a nation of PRIESTS, then I guess you don't want to be a part of that "first resurrection" above, and as priests reign with Lord Jesus when He returns in the future.


Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, "Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof:
for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV

Wow! I didn't know believing Israelites were NOT part of that above, "...out of every kindred and tongue, and people, and nation," MADE PRIESTS BY LORD JESUS CHRIST!


Rev 1:5-6
5 And
from Jesus Christ, Who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Him That loved us, and washed us from our sins in his Own blood,
6
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
KJV

1 Peter 2:5
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God
by Jesus Christ.
KJV


HERE IS AN ENGLISH GRAMMAR LESSON FOR YOU about that above word "By". It is simply a CONJUNCTION (dia in the Greek). And it simply means 'because of', or 'for this cause', 'by occasion of', 'by reason of', 'through', etc. In the above 1 Peter 2:5 verse, "by" is pointing to the BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST SHED UPON THE CROSS FOR THE REMISSION OF THE SINS OF THOSE WHO BELIEVE! That... is how we offer up to GOD those "spiritual sacrifices" VIA The Blood of Jesus Christ! We do that BY... FAITH on the Blood of Jesus Christ!

And those "lively stones" Peter mentions above, are Apostle Paul's "... all the building fitly framed together..." per Ephesians 2, and the "temple" of 1 Corinthians 3 & 6, and 2 Corinthians 6. That's a DIRECT reference to Christ's Church as ONE BODY, BOTH believing ISRAELITES AND GENTILES.

So you need to quit listening to those men on the FALSE THEORIES of HYPER-DISPENSATIONALISM who have bewitched you, and get back on board with ALL of God's Word as written.
 

Davy

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It could be that the scripture evidence presented did not uphold objections......without specifics I cant be expected to elaborate
Give some recent threads or replies we can deal with where I am wrong

Don't bother me with your silly remarks and questions. It's obvious you are not here to be serious about The Word of God, but instead are just playing around, as I have given you many Biblical answers to your questions, even as others here also have.

Welcome to my IGNORE LIST, again!
 

Ronald Nolette

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The church was formed before Pentecost

Christ formed the church of God during his earthly ministry

[Mat 16:18 KJV] 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
[Mat 18:17 KJV] 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Sorry, but you are incorrect. You even posted a verse that shows the church was future Matt. 16.

Paul said entrance into the church was through spirit baptism and that did not happen until Pentecost as Jesus said.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Luke 24:49
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
 

Doug

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No, they were a people and a nation. Ekklesia was a term used to say they were an assembly. You will not find them a church in anyother passage in Scripture. And calling it a church is disregarding even what Jesus said.

He did not recognize Israel as His church.

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Notice this is future tense? Jesus had not yet begun to build HIS church. I belong to Jesus church and all who trust in teh death and resurrection of Jesus for their sins since Pentecost are part of Jesus' church. Nobody else in the past.
You can hold to your belief that there was no church in the wilderness....they were not a secular assembly but were given the oracles of God
 

Doug

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No, they were a people and a nation. Ekklesia was a term used to say they were an assembly. You will not find them a church in anyother passage in Scripture. And calling it a church is disregarding even what Jesus said.

He did not recognize Israel as His church.

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Notice this is future tense? Jesus had not yet begun to build HIS church. I belong to Jesus church and all who trust in teh death and resurrection of Jesus for their sins since Pentecost are part of Jesus' church. Nobody else in the past.
If you want to think there was not a church in the wilderness fine....the other Bible translations will be in agreement

Just because Jesus said he would build his church does not mean there was not a previous church
 

Doug

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You have NO BIBLICAL PROOF that the 'believing remnant of Israel' is NOT part of Christ's Church!
The believing remnant was part of Christ's church.....this was the church Paul prosescuted ......the persecuted church here is not the body of Christ
 

Doug

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Furthermore, when Jesus promised HIS ELECT that will reign with Him in His future Kingdom, He said He made us 'kings' and 'priests'.
He didnt say he made us to be kings and priests but rather the believing remnant of Israel would be made kings and priets
 

Doug

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ev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, "Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof:
for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV

Wow! I didn't know believing Israelites were NOT part of that above, "...out of every kindred and tongue, and people, and nation," MADE PRIESTS BY LORD JESUS CHRIST!
Being out of every nation is not talking about Gentiles but rather Israel being scattered into every Gentile nation and being made kings and priests
 

Lambano

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Being out of every nation is not talking about Gentiles but rather Israel being scattered into every Gentile nation and being made kings and priests
That interpretation is unsupportable. "Tribe, language, people, and nation" all refer to kinds of humans, not places, lands, countries, or kingdoms.
 

Doug

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1 Peter 2:5
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God
by Jesus Christ.
KJV


HERE IS AN ENGLISH GRAMMAR LESSON FOR YOU about that above word "By". It is simply a CONJUNCTION (dia in the Greek). And it simply means 'because of', or 'for this cause', 'by occasion of', 'by reason of', 'through', etc. In the above 1 Peter 2:5 verse, "by" is pointing to the BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST SHED UPON THE CROSS FOR THE REMISSION OF THE SINS OF THOSE WHO BELIEVE! That... is how we offer up to GOD those "spiritual sacrifices" VIA The Blood of Jesus Christ! We do that BY... FAITH on the Blood of Jesus Christ!

And those "lively stones" Peter mentions above, are Apostle Paul's "... all the building fitly framed together..." per Ephesians 2, and the "temple" of 1 Corinthians 3 & 6, and 2 Corinthians 6. That's a DIRECT reference to Christ's Church as ONE BODY, BOTH believing ISRAELITES AND GENTILES.

Sorry, but you are incorrect. You even posted a verse that shows the church was future Matt. 16.
Can you find the verse you are talking about please