Biblical Mary

[Mungo]

Carnal minded response.

No, A Biblical response.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If Mary is that exalted why is she not mentioned by the Apostle Paul?

Outside of the gospels she is not mentioned at all! Unless you accept teh Roman definition of the woman in REv. 12.

 

[Taken]

He told us she was Mary if you have a Biblical understanding.

Illogical comment.
"He" who?
who is "us"?
"Told" when?
"Told" where?

 

[Taken]

No, A Biblical response.

Your carnal minded response.
No Biblical words response.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I've shown you time and time again you are wrong.
I'm not wasting any more time on your fantasies.
I have better things to do

So to disagree with you is wrong. I guess when you posit something it automatically is elevated to ex cathedra?

The very credible Christian historian Eusebius is wrong?

Dag means fish in semitic languages- on is a common ending for words. dagon means grain, but we have no historic evidence that sahows Dagon was the god of grain. He was part of the pantheon of gods for many nations and was depicted in differing ways. Sorry you don't like some of th eways he was depicted.

 

[Taken]

No, A Biblical response.

LOL...
A Biblical response would be words written in the Bible
A Carnal minded response would be words out of your own minds thoughts.
DUH!

 

[rockytopva]

The perpetual virginity of Mary is the doctrine that Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, was a virgin ante partum, in partu, et post partum—before, during and after the birth of Christ.[2] It is one of the four Marian dogmas of the Catholic Church, and is held also by the Eastern Orthodox Churches in Eastern Christianity and by some Lutherans and Anglicans in Western Christianity.[3] Her virginity before Jesus' birth is attested in the Gospel of Matthew and in the Gospel of Luke, the Bible makes no explicit statements on her virginity during and after the birth of Christ.[4] The Pauline epistles, the four canonical gospels, and the Acts of the Apostles, all mention the brothers (adelphoi) of Jesus;[5]
- Perpetual virginity of Mary - Wikipedia

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The precursor of later exalted visions of the Virgin Mary is found in Rev. 12, where she is portrayed as the spiritual mother of True Israel, a status created by her Son. Note the 12 stars in her crown:

"A great portent appeared in Heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of 12 stars. She was pregnant [with Jesus] and crying out in anguish in the agony of giving birth (Rev. 12:2)."

Beckwith's Commentary on Revelation (pp. 614-615) sums up the pagan background of the dragon imagery of Rev. 12:
"The origin of the symbolism is found...in the Greek myth of the birth of Apollo. The goddess Leto was with child by Zeus, and when she reached the time of her delivery she was pursued by the dragon Python, who sought to kill her and her child. But...Poseidon provided her a place of refuge in the island of Ortygia., where she brought forth the child the god Apollo...Apollo...slew the dragon (the war in heaven in our passage)."

This is incorrect. John was not well verses in pagan symbology or with the machinations of pagan deities. He was very familiar with the wwritten history of a dream had by Joseph which shows this same woman who represents the nation of Israel.

The vision of Mary fails when we go further in rev. 12:

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

This mirrors Israel fleeing when the antichrist enters the holy place and Israel is forced to flee for its life.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There is no record of Mary being pursued by armies ( a flood when used symbolically here and elsewhere is a military campaign) We have no historic record of Mary being subjected to intense persecution on a unique level.

But Iswrael flees into teh wilderness, in th emountains to place known as Bozrah/Petra.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I've shown you time and time again you are wrong.
I'm not wasting any more time on your fantasies.
I have better things to do

You know it is quite possible that both of us are right? this thought just dawned on me. the encyclopedias and secular scholars spend little time in the spiritual history of these nations. at best they mention them in passing unless it has major historic significance. Otherwise it is relegated to notations as a cultural thing. Some nations may have held dagon in a different way than thet Philistines did and several other nations. As Scripture focuses its historic OT writings to those nations affecting Israel- the secular writings may be the variants other nations adapted that did not have an affect on Israel at the time they had Dagon elevated.

 

[Taken]

So to disagree with you is wrong. I guess when you posit something it automatically is elevated to ex cathedra?

I have learned alot from people I know who are Catholic church members...
From claiming to have been born catholic;
Saying they were not Christian, they were catholic; lol
To; couldn't wait to leave home and quit going to a church they hated, (sad)... they want nothing to do with the Bible.
* But have to say, being on a Chrisitian forum you sure can tell who has been drenched in the gospel of the Catholic catechism.

 

[Taken]

This is incorrect. John was not well verses in pagan symbology or with the machinations of pagan deities. He was very familiar with the wwritten history of a dream had by Joseph which shows this same woman who represents the nation of Israel.

The vision of Mary fails when we go further in rev. 12:

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

This mirrors Israel fleeing when the antichrist enters the holy place and Israel is forced to flee for its life.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There is no record of Mary being pursued by armies ( a flood when used symbolically here and elsewhere is a military campaign) We have no historic record of Mary being subjected to intense persecution on a unique level.

But Iswrael flees into teh wilderness, in th emountains to place known as Bozrah/Petra.

Correct...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The perpetual virginity of Mary is the doctrine that Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, was a virgin ante partum, in partu, et post partum—before, during and after the birth of Christ.[2] It is one of the four Marian dogmas of the Catholic Church, and is held also by the Eastern Orthodox Churches in Eastern Christianity and by some Lutherans and Anglicans in Western Christianity.[3] Her virginity before Jesus' birth is attested in the Gospel of Matthew and in the Gospel of Luke, the Bible makes no explicit statements on her virginity during and after the birth of Christ.[4] The Pauline epistles, the four canonical gospels, and the Acts of the Apostles, all mention the brothers (adelphoi) of Jesus;[5]
- Perpetual virginity of Mary - Wikipedia

Well the normative reading of Matt. 1:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

shows Jooseph and Mary were obedient Jews and had sex and children after Jesus' birth as you showed. We know He had four half brothers, James, Joses, Simon and Judas and at least 2 sisters that are unnamed.

It does take a lot of hypothesizing and allegorizing to keep Mary ever virgin.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I have learned alot from people I know who are Catholic church members...
From claiming to have been born catholic;
Saying they were not Christian, they were catholic; lol
To; couldn't wait to leave home and quit going to a church they hated, (sad)... they want nothing to do with the Bible.
* But have to say, being on a Chrisitian forum you sure can tell who has been drenched in the gospel of the Catholic catechism.

Well I was born and raised as a French Catholic. I was very very steeped in Catholicism, I went ot Catholic grammar school in 1960 through 1969 (K-8) then the Catholic High school with 3,000 others till 1972. I had spent a summer at seminary and when I first became Christian I went back to may Catrholic roots with a vengeance (it was all I knew of religion). when my aunt who led me to teh Lord sent me a bible, I read and read and read and grew more troubled by Catholic doctrine in so many areas. I was excited and shared what I was learning with many parishioners after mass. I had a visit from a priest to my house who told me to stop telling people what I was sharing. I told him I couldn't help myself. He gave me three choices, recant and be quiet, leave the Catholic church, or face a dominican tribunal on the charges of heresy. I left.

 

[theefaith]

Biblical understanding - the woman is primarily Mary.
Blinkered understanding -the woman just represents Israel.

the child a Jesus his mother is Mary
Satan makes war on Mary the mother of divine grace not israel, israel and Satan were united in killing Christ
Gen 3:15 is also Mary
Eve Cooperated with Satan To cos the fall as Mary Cooperated to bring our salvation

 

[amigo de christo]

Well I was born and raised as a French Catholic. I was very very steeped in Catholicism, I went ot Catholic grammar school in 1960 through 1969 (K-8) then the Catholic High school with 3,000 others till 1972. I had spent a summer at seminary and when I first became Christian I went back to may Catrholic roots with a vengeance (it was all I knew of religion). when my aunt who led me to teh Lord sent me a bible, I read and read and read and grew more troubled by Catholic doctrine in so many areas. I was excited and shared what I was learning with many parishioners after mass. I had a visit from a priest to my house who told me to stop telling people what I was sharing. I told him I couldn't help myself. He gave me three choices, recant and be quiet, leave the Catholic church, or face a dominican tribunal on the charges of heresy. I left.

THATS RIGHT . GOD PUTS A LOVE FOR TRUTH UPON OUR HEARTS . ITS Why you loved reading that bible
and were hungry to share it . THE RCC IS BELIAL and DARKNESS . Its no wonder they gave you those choices .

 

[amigo de christo]

the child a Jesus his mother is Mary
Satan makes war on Mary the mother of divine grace not israel, israel and Satan were united in killing Christ
Gen 3:15 is also Mary
Eve Cooperated with Satan To cos the fall as Mary Cooperated to bring our salvation

The solider of ROME returns . You gotta slow down pard . You use partial truths to confirm a lie .
AND THAT IS DEADLY DANGEROUS . BUT heck most protestants do the same thing as well .
BIBLE TIME .

 

[Taken]

The perpetual virginity of Mary is the doctrine that Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, was a virgin ante partum, in partu, et post partum—before, during and after the birth of Christ.[2] It is one of the four Marian dogmas of the Catholic Church, and is held also by the Eastern Orthodox Churches in Eastern Christianity and by some Lutherans and Anglicans in Western Christianity.[3] Her virginity before Jesus' birth is attested in the Gospel of Matthew and in the Gospel of Luke, the Bible makes no explicit statements on her virginity during and after the birth of Christ.[4] The Pauline epistles, the four canonical gospels, and the Acts of the Apostles, all mention the brothers (adelphoi) of Jesus;[5]
- Perpetual virginity of Mary - Wikipedia

Scripture says no such thing about "pepetural virginity of Mary".
A catholic man-made corrupt doctrine, like numerous other teachings in their doctrine.

 

[Taken]

Well I was born and raised as a French Catholic. I was very very steeped in Catholicism, I went ot Catholic grammar school in 1960 through 1969 (K-8) then the Catholic High school with 3,000 others till 1972. I had spent a summer at seminary and when I first became Christian I went back to may Catrholic roots with a vengeance (it was all I knew of religion). when my aunt who led me to teh Lord sent me a bible, I read and read and read and grew more troubled by Catholic doctrine in so many areas. I was excited and shared what I was learning with many parishioners after mass. I had a visit from a priest to my house who told me to stop telling people what I was sharing. I told him I couldn't help myself. He gave me three choices, recant and be quiet, leave the Catholic church, or face a dominican tribunal on the charges of heresy. I left.

Interesting. Many people own a Bible. Many people can read. Few people read the Bible.
My spouse' g-mother, was devout, (never missed mass) French Catholic. Married a catholic, had a baby, divorced her husband and told the child at 4 yr's old, his dad was dead. At age 15, the child's uncle (dad's brother) looked up the child, to inquire if the child wanted to go to his dads funeral, (out of state) that his uncle was going and could take the boy with him! The explaination to the boy was...you're dad was a bad catholic, never went to mass, we are good catholics, we always go to mass. So off to mass every week they would go. I asked her to tell me about her church. She described the statues, the pews, the stained glass, artwork, the rituals, and the beautiful sound of the singing and the Priest giving the sermon in Latin. I asked if she spoke Latin, she said no!
She had a Bible she showed me with pride, a well worn cover that she carried to mass since a teen...yet the pages looked as if brand new. A total facade.

 

[Taken]

.


Much disagreement revolves around the Greek word translated betrothed
and/or espoused; which is found in only three places in the entire New
Testament and all three are in the story of Joseph and Mary-- one place in
Matthew and two in Luke.

Its primary meaning refers to promise; which is technically different than an
engagement.
_

To my understanding, Betrothed is intent to marry, while being Espoused, is more of a planned celebration, an "event" so to speak where the "written promise" to marry is revealed.

 

[Mungo]

LOL...
A Biblical response would be words written in the Bible
A Carnal minded response would be words out of your own minds thoughts.
DUH!

In that case all your responses are Carnal minded

 

[theefaith]

The solider of ROME returns . You gotta slow down pard . You use partial truths to confirm a lie .
AND THAT IS DEADLY DANGEROUS . BUT heck most protestants do the same thing as well .
BIBLE TIME .

are you a disciple?