Biblical Mary

[Wrangler]

It's you who are trying to play word games.
First you say "When I drop my win glass and exclaim 'oh crap!'"
Now you say "When my wine glass drops, I answer "oh crap.""
A desperate attempt at playing word game.
Answer whom? No-one has spoken to you?

Never heard of synonyms, huh? Most translations don't even say answer but reply or responded.


John 20:28
New Living Translation
28 “My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.

He made a statement - a profession of faith

That is one interpretation. I say it was not a statement but an exclamation. I Cor 8:6 is an explicit teaching.

 

[Brakelite]

TWO things:
1. Jesus guaranteed that His Church would NOT succumb to darkness (Matt. 16:18)
2. Bad leadership has been a problem since the beginning (Judas) - and they will be dealt with (Luke 12:48) by God.

NOWHERE, however, does Jesus give a prescription for leaving His Church or splintering off because of them.

As for your continued nonsense regarding the origins of the Catholic Church - ALL we need to do is to defer to the writings of the Early Church Fathers, who ALL proclaimed to be part of the ONE, Apostolic Catholic Church. And we can see from as early as the 2nd century that this was NOT simply used as a mere description of the Church - but the TITLE of it - "Catholic Church".

Case in point - the 2nd century document, The Martyrdom of Polycarp.
This document has a very interesting phrase in it which would make NO sense at all if it is only uses "Catholic" as a mere description:

Excerpt from The Martyrdom of Polycarp:
When finally he concluded his prayer, after remembering all who had at any time come his way – small folk and great folk, distinguished and undistinguished, and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world – the time for departure came. So they placed him on an ass, and brought him into the city on a great Sabbath.

The term, καθ ολης (katah-holos) is GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal”.

The phrase - which, by the way, is ALSO written in GREEK - would be horribly redundant, if not comical. if this was a mere "description".
It would go something like this:
"... and the whole whole throughout Church throughout the world ..."

It is blindingly clear that this document is using the term Catholic Church as a TITLE and not a mere description - or the wording would make no sense whatsoever.

Polycarp was a contemporary of 1st century Bishop, Ignatius of Antioch - who wrote the following:
Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church. (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

So much for your continued anti-historical manure . . .

Two things...
A. The gates of hell didn't prevail over God's people, His church. In fact, despite what was going on in Rome with the Pope's avarice and lust for power, the gospel was peached throughout all the then known world... From Antioch to China. From Galatia to Britain. And none of those missionaries originated from Rome. God's true church today is descended from them... Not from Rome.

B. I'm not talking about the existence or non existence of a church in Rome in those early centuries. I'm talking about the existence of an apostate church that evolved from that true church in later centuries, taking to itself civil and religious authority over all other churches, and using force of arms through the state such as Clovis trip enforce Catholic tradition. Such as the Catholic trinity. Such as the Catholic Sunday. Such as the Catholic Easter. Such as the Catholic Christmas. Such as the Catholic version of Mary. Such as numerous other pagan titles, traditions, artwork, idols, and practices that were nominally baptized Christian. To the point where today the Catholic Church bears absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to the Apostolic church. As I pointed out to Mungo... It is now a pagan institution and is more concerned with global power and Gaia worship than the gospel of the scriptures.

 

[Wrangler]

Philippians 4:5
Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

So, your idea of moderation is that there is only 1 out of 30,000 Christian denominations that is the true Church, and this true Church hold's itself equal to Christ in authority on Earth? If so, what would be an example of extreme?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Two things...
A. The gates of hell didn't prevail over God's people, His church. In fact, despite what was going on in Rome with the Pope's avarice and lust for power, the gospel was peached throughout all the then known world... From Antioch to China. From Galatia to Britain. And none of those missionaries originated from Rome. God's true church today is descended from them... Not from Rome.

B. I'm not talking about the existence or non existence of a church in Rome in those early centuries. I'm talking about the existence of an apostate church that evolved from that true church in later centuries, taking to itself civil and religious authority over all other churches, and using force of arms through the state such as Clovis trip enforce Catholic tradition. Such as the Catholic trinity. Such as the Catholic Sunday. Such as the Catholic Easter. Such as the Catholic Christmas. Such as the Catholic version of Mary. Such as numerous other pagan titles, traditions, artwork, idols, and practices that were nominally baptized Christian. To the point where today the Catholic Church bears absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to the Apostolic church. As I pointed out to Mungo... It is now a pagan institution and is more concerned with global power and Gaia worship than the gospel of the scriptures.

Your first point is correct - the gates of Hell didn't prevail against Christ' Church - nor HAVE they ever prevailed.
Bad men within the Church couldn't make it happen - NOR could the Protestant Revolt in the 16th century and beyond achieve this. NONE of your man-made sects - whether they be Lutherans, Calvinists, Baptists, SDA and other fringe groups could make tis happen.

His Catholic Church is STILL here - regardless of the ecclesial divorce from it that is Protestantism.

As to your second idiotic point - you can't have it BOTH ways.
Either the Church became apostate or it didn't. If you insist that it DID - then YOU are accusing Jesus of being a liar and a fraud.
If you admit that it didn't - then the door is open and you should come home . . .

 

[Mungo]

Never heard of synonyms, huh? Most translations don't even say answer but reply or responded.

John 20:28
New Living Translation
28 “My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.

You have to be desperate if you resort to the Living Bible.

Here are some better translations:
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (KJV)
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” (RSV)
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” (ESV)

The Greek translated answered is apekrithe from apokrinomai: to answer - Strong G611
Definition: to answer
Usage: I answer, reply, take up the conversation.
Not exclaim

That is one interpretation. I say it was not a statement but an exclamation. ICor 8:6 is an explicit teaching.

No it was not an exclamation. It was an answer as scripture says.

ICor 8:6 is an explicit teaching.

"yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist."
If all things came though Christ then he existed along with the Father before the creation of the world.
John wrote
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God;
3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

The Word was God. Not a God, not another God.

John also said referring to Christ:
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands (1Jn 1:1)
and

 

[Wrangler]

You have to be desperate if you resort to the Living Bible.

My friend, the Word of God is alive. I mentioned how most translations don't take it as you do.

Make a Blessed Day.

 

[Wrangler]

If all things came though Christ then he existed along with the Father before the creation of the world.

The Bible says Jesus was the first born of all creation and that there is only one God, the Father, which Jesus repeatedly affirmed. See John 17:3.

 

[amigo de christo]

There is a Real Mary in Heaven right now.....I often wonder how Embarrassed she is with all this wasted, perverted Adulation Of her , when she knows better than almost anyone that her Son deserves ALL the credit for the Redemption Of Mankind.....I hope the misguided Fools that Worship her have not ruined her HEAVENLY STAY....

Well that simple truth just offended the soliders of the RCC . But i would like to add something to this .
They have not ruined her stay , nor peters . TRUTH IS , mary , peter and every saint of JESUS
is gonna judge that harlot . SO my advice is folks get out of her and fast .
SO many will find out too little and too late , that Even Peter himself is gonna say , I WASNT NO POPE
I never had been bow to me to kiss my ring . I never decked myself up in fancy clothes and loved all those titles .
I never pointed to anyone BUT JESUS , peter will say . And mary will say , Even on earth i pointed to my SON
SO Why did you all pray to me . And many will hear depart from me , FROM JESUS , on the day of the LORD .
I Know that sounds scary to some . BUT TRUE IT IS . SO while anyone has air left in their lungs
i suggest two things . Warn them all come ye out of any such system which teaches any such thing
And do so quickly, cause no man , no woman , no child , knows when their time is up . POINT TO JESUS and all sound biblical doctrine .

 

[amigo de christo]

Mariology is nothing more than fiction. Peter would have known Mary, but never saw her as anyone other than a fellow believer who was baptised with the Holy Spirit along with the 118 others on the day of Pentecost. It is doubtful that Paul ever met Mary, so he would have had no personal knowledge of her. If she had been anyone more than just another believing woman, both Peter and Paul would have made mention of her as a person to be reverenced.

And not only that . But JESUS shut any kind of worship of man down .
A lady in the crowd yelled , BLESSED are the paps from which thou did suckle .
AND JESUS said , YEA RATHER BLESSED are those who do the will of GOD who is in heaven .

 

[amigo de christo]

By their fruits ye shall know them. One brief glance at the history of the Roman church readily informs one whether it be Christian or pagan. The details have been discussed on this forum and other forums repeatedly. You justify the pagan tenets of Catholic Canon law through tradition. Thus you throw aside the authority of scripture. That's fine, do what you like. But your religion is still pagan regardless. And the Pope's declarations and statements regarding climate change reveal this... Even shout this from the world's rooftops. Gaia is now the god of Rome. Come out of her.

And now its not just rome . Its infected every single denomination . Mother earth is their god now .
Climate change and the social gosple is their god now .
We are one , is their god now .
Common ground .............is their god now .
And the biblical JESUS has been cast aside , His teachings and those of the apostels and all for the sake
of a false love , a false unity , a false god .

 

[amigo de christo]

Super strict
Super narrow way
Super rigorist
Super fundamentalist
Ways are unbiblical!

Philippians 4:5
Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

The way is narrow . HIS NAME IS JESUS CHRIST , not the RCC , not the protestant realm , and not the other false religoins either .
Yalls beloved pope and popes have done massive dark work , IN THE NAME OF JESUS . And that my friend
is the absolute worst place to be . I would rather ye were Cold . Its all about power and control now my friend .
And every false religion , even a number so high it cannot be numbered within Christendom are tanked my friend .
Folks can keep their common ground , their we are one , and they false love and false unity .
As for me , ITS JESUS CHRIST and whoever loves HIM , IN SINCERITY , IN TRUTH and IN SPIRIT , well those are who lambs gather with .
PS . JESUS MATTERS .
DOCTRINE MATTERS .
Common ground in the things of the world , IS DISASTER . COME YE OUT from amongst them and BE YE HOLY , BE YE SEPERATE
and GOD shall recieve you . That is my call to all now . Many may mock , But i tell us , time is running out .
And the day of the LORD shall surely come .

 

[amigo de christo]

 

[Mungo]

The Bible says Jesus was the first born of all creation and that there is only one God, the Father, which Jesus repeatedly affirmed. See John 17:3.

"first born of all creation" is not about time but about Christ's pre-eminence
As Col 1:16-17 says:
"for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."

Which is what I was pointing out in post #185

 

[Mungo]

My friend, the Word of God is alive. I mentioned how most translations don't take it as you do.

Make a Blessed Day.

Most translations?
From Bible Gateway:
KJ21
And Thomas answered and said unto Him, “My Lord and my God!”
ASV
Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
AMP
Thomas answered Him, “My Lord and my God!”
AMPC
Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God!
BRG
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
CSB
Thomas responded to him, “My Lord and my God!”
CEB
Thomas responded to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!”
CJB
T’oma answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
CEV
Thomas replied, “You are my Lord and my God!”
DARBY
Thomas answered and said to him, My Lord and my God.
DLNT
Thomas responded and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
DRA
Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God.
ERV
Thomas said to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!”
EHV
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
ESV
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
ESVUK
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
EXB
Thomas ·said to [answered] him, “My Lord and my God!”
GNV
Then Thomas answered, and said unto him, Thou art my Lord, and my God.
GW
Thomas responded to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!”
GNT
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
HCSB
Thomas responded to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
ICB
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
ISV
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
PHILLIPS
“My Lord and my God!” cried Thomas.
JUB
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
KJV
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
AKJV
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
LEB
Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
TLB
“My Lord and my God!” Thomas said.
MSG
Thomas said, “My Master! My God!”
MEV
Thomas answered Him, “My Lord and my God!”
MOUNCE
Thomas replied · to him, saying, · “My Lord, and · my God!”
NOG
Thomas responded to Yeshua, “My Lord and my God!”
NABRE
Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
NASB
Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
NASB1995
Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
NCB
Thomas exclaimed, “My Lord and my God!”
NCV
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
NET
Thomas replied to him, “My Lord and my God!”
NIRV
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
NIV
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
NIVUK
Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’
NKJV
And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
NLV
Thomas said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
NLT
“My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.
NMB
Thomas answered and said to him, My Lord and my God!
NRSV
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
NRSVA
Thomas answered him, ‘My Lord and my God!’
NRSVACE
Thomas answered him, ‘My Lord and my God!’
NRSVCE
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
NTE
‘My Lord,’ replied Thomas, ‘and my God!’
OJB
In reply, T’oma said to Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, Adoni and Elohai! [TEHILLIM 35:23]
TPT
Then the words spilled out of his heart—“You are my Lord, and you are my God!”
RGT
Then Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord, and my God!”
RSV
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
RSVCE
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
TLV
Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
VOICE
Thomas (filled with emotion): You are the one True God and Lord of my life.
WEB
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
WE
Thomas said to him, `My Lord and my God!'
WYC
Thomas answered, and said to him, My Lord and my God.
YLT
And Thomas answered and said to him, `My Lord and my God;'

That's 36 out of 63 and most of the others were 'replied' or 'said'.
Only 2 for 'exclaimed'

 

[theefaith]

So, your idea of moderation is that there is only 1 out of 30,000 Christian denominations that is the true Church, and this true Church hold's itself equal to Christ in authority on Earth? If so, what would be an example of extreme?

Jn 10:16 one church

 

[theefaith]

The way is narrow . HIS NAME IS JESUS CHRIST , not the RCC , not the protestant realm , and not the other false religoins either .
Yalls beloved pope and popes have done massive dark work , IN THE NAME OF JESUS . And that my friend
is the absolute worst place to be . I would rather ye were Cold . Its all about power and control now my friend .
And every false religion , even a number so high it cannot be numbered within Christendom are tanked my friend .
Folks can keep their common ground , their we are one , and they false love and false unity .
As for me , ITS JESUS CHRIST and whoever loves HIM , IN SINCERITY , IN TRUTH and IN SPIRIT , well those are who lambs gather with .
PS . JESUS MATTERS .
DOCTRINE MATTERS .
Common ground in the things of the world , IS DISASTER . COME YE OUT from amongst them and BE YE HOLY , BE YE SEPERATE
and GOD shall recieve you . That is my call to all now . Many may mock , But i tell us , time is running out .
And the day of the LORD shall surely come .

have you ever read he true popes?

 

[Wrangler]

Most translations?
From Bible Gateway:
John 20:28
New Living Translation
28 “My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.

You know Biblegateway has many more translations than the ones you selected. Naturally, if you remove all the evidence that goes against your doctrine, then it only appears that the evidence supports your doctrine.

In any event, Paul made a statement of faith. Thomas was speaking for himself. My cereal. My Milk v 'For us there is one God, the Father.' 1 Cor 8:6

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is typical of trolls.
Can't provide evidence for their claims that they make and then dodge off into other questions, and then more questions and claims without evidence

Let's have a test. You ask why is the bishops miter designed the way it is?
So tell me - WITH EVIDENCE

Well as you refuse ot acknowledge sources that are valid, why should I post them? You will just pooh pooh them off.

You reject Hislop, but in casually reviewing his book just now, I found over 200 references to very reliable historical sources! Imagine that!

As soon as you answer the question I will answer yours. But please provide evidence as well.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Translation.
No I don't have evidence

Lying again doesn't make your false claim any truer! When you will accept evidentiary sources I have listed so far, I will gladly supply some more. But that will require humility on your part.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

My insistence on the truth has nothing to do wih being "snobbish" - as you falsely assert.
The problem is that you're SO used to telling LIES about the Catholic Church that you can't even recognize where the lies end and the truth starts.

Even a rudimentary search in a common source like wikipedia shows that Hislop's "history" was a pack of lies:
Semiramis - Wikipedia
Critics dismissed Hislop's speculations as based on misunderstandings.[42][43] Lester L. Grabbe has claimed Hislop's argument, particularly his association of Ninus with Nimrod, is based on a misunderstanding of historical Babylon and its religion.[42] Grabbe criticized Hislop for portraying Semiramis as Nimrod's consort, despite that she has not been found in a single text associated with him,[42] and for portraying her as the "mother of harlots", even though this is not how she is depicted in any of the texts where she is mentioned.[42] Ralph Woodrow has stated that Alexander Hislop "picked, chose and mixed" portions of various myths from different cultures.[45]

Do your homework and stop embarrassing yourself . . .

Boy how benighted can you be! Of course critics will dismiss his work. Back then critics were critical not like siskel and Ebert! In case you didn't know. And wiki is simply reporting, not endor4sing or disagreeing with those who were critical of Hislop. But if I supplied a list of people who supported Hislops work, you would find a way to dismiss them as uneducated rubes! Just think, it is us uneducated rubes Jesus sought out teh most!!!!!

but Hislop cites hundreds of references to support His claims or show the history and development of something- but because He speaks against Romanism He cannot be reliable. I don't agree with several of his conclusionsw, but doctrinally His premises are correct.

Well cite one lie I have said about Romanism and show why it is a lie. You are awesome at vomiting out accusations.