No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming

[Truth7t7]

Yes indeed this is coming as well .
But first the beast , his sytem and his kings are gonna butcher them a lotta lambs . This may seem hard to believe .
But go to and behold the inner door of the all inclusive chambers of the harlot . AND SEE what you see within .
SO i went and looked into her chambers and there were many christains , muslims , buddits , and all gathering
the religoins to be as one . I saw popes kissing korans and budda statues and calling it love , peace and unity .
Go to and behold the inner door of even the protestant realm .
SO i went and beheld and seen men and leaders leading their flocks right into she who leads in the all inclusive lie .
And they were chanting love , and changing the gosple into a social justice , green deal , good works gospel .
And they were appointing those who walk in darkness to lead and teach the churches . calling evil good and good evil .
GO to and behold jersualem on the earth . And i saw but the same thing . that she too was leading the world right into
this we are one religion . And i saw protestants saying , HEY , these are the children of GOD , touch not the annointed ones of GOD .
And i wept and i wept . For so few can see the direction and so many are headed right into the DELUSION of the all inclusion .

It appears your on the wrong TV channel, I disagree with your perception of mass Christian killing, it will be just the opposite

The (Two Witnesses) Of Revelation Chapter 11 Will Be Befote The Antichrist His Entire Time In Jerusalem, 1260 days, or 42 months

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Revelation 16:2-4KJV
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

Revelation 3:9-10KJV
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Luke 21:17-19KJV
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

 

[marks]

Let's not make this personal? Let's discuss the issue of whether the synoptic versions of the Olivet Discourse are saying 3 different things or not? This is my concern, and is not personal towards you. As I said, I've dealt with this before, and in great detail. On another forum, I've had just this discussion. But the person I spoke with didn't take it personally, as you are. That person simply rejected my arguments, which you are free to do. Just try to prove your points, instead of just assert them?

What I'm asking is . . . put aside your assumptions of me, such as, I'm trying it "insert doctrine", or that I'm afraid of something, or that I ignore truth, all that stuff.

These sorts of things make the discussion personal. No need for that. Logical fallacies, assumptions about others, do not further a discussion, but rather turn it aside.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Cop out.

Truth.

So it goes.

Much love!

 

[Randy Kluth]

James 1:1KJV
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Yes, most Israelis in Jesus' time still knew their ancestry. That's not the same thing as being divided into 12 jurisdictions. That had long since past, and the group, the 12 tribes, were now known more as "the Jews" than the "12 tribes." There were no 12 distinct entities at all. The 10 tribes lost in the Assyrian captivity were still lost. The priests, the Levites, didn't know whether they belonged to the North or to the South--neither kingdom existed anymore.

The term "Jews" did not just denote the tribe of Judah. All 12 tribes had over a long period of time been amalgamating among those of the tribe of Judah for no other reason than God's temple was there. The Northern Kingdom had erected false religious structures--idols--in two places in the North.

No, they were a nation--not 12 tribes. Of course 12 tribes are still mentioned! They're mentioned in Rev 7! But the question is, Why are they mentioned as such? It is, I believe, to note that God had been faithful to all 12 sons of Jacob, and to all 12 tribes that had emerged. God had loved them all equally. And now they all had been given equal access to the same national identity. You can see that concept clearly in Eze 40-48. They were given a common and collective identity--they belonged to Israel!

 

[amigo de christo]

It appears your on the wrong TV channel, I disagree with your perception of mass Christian killing, it will be just the opposite

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Revelation 3:9-10KJV
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Luke 21:17-19KJV
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

This is coming my friend . You are right about that . My advice , be prepared to lose everything for Christ and even to die for Him .
We will watch as things unfold . In the meantime dont gather with the all inclusive or buy that lie .

 

[Randy Kluth]

What I'm asking is . . . put aside your assumptions of me, such as, I'm trying it "insert doctrine", or that I'm afraid of something, or that I ignore truth, all that stuff.

These sorts of things make the discussion personal. No need for that. Logical fallacies, assumptions about others, do not further a discussion, but rather turn it aside.

Much love!

You have to be realistic and thick-skinned, Mark. Nobody can dispose of all "rough" language, that insinuates or suggests--none of us is perfect! We have to assume the best about the person supposedly accusing us, as if that person is really fired up about her or her position, and wants the truth to come out.

Again, focus on the issues. I don't think anything has risen to the level of "personal attack" yet in our conversations. If it has, I apologize. You otherwise seem to be a very decent person.

 

[marks]

I tend to pretty much take the blame for things I don't really feel I'm guilty for just to have peace with my wife.

Myself, I prefer to find where I have any responsibility for whatever is happening, and own that, and correct that. I like to find where she has responsibility for what is happening, and work to understand where I can reinforce her in the future so that she won't be as prone to fall in the future.

To accept fault for something that you don't actually feel responsible for may bring a sense of peace in the present, but isn't really sincere, is it? And what fruit will that have?

OK, not to derail anything, but this is more how my mind works.

Much love!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Myself, I prefer to find where I have any responsibility for whatever is happening, and own that, and correct that. I like to find where she has responsibility for what is happening, and work to understand where I can reinforce her in the future so that she won't be as prone to fall in the future.

To accept fault for something that you don't actually feel responsible for may bring a sense of peace in the present, but isn't really sincere, is it? And what fruit will that have?

OK, not to derail anything, but this is more how my mind works.

Much love!

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make--jokingly--before you took it personal! ;)

 

[marks]

Cop out. I included a smiley, joking face. If you can't read an emoticon, then you can't engage in a responsible discussion.

Write a negative statement, add a smiley, which am I to believe?

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, most Israelis in Jesus' time still knew their ancestry. That's not the same thing as being divided into 12 jurisdictions. That had long since past, and the group, the 12 tribes, were now known more as "the Jews" than the "12 tribes." There were no 12 distinct entities at all. The 10 tribes lost in the Assyrian captivity were still lost. The priests, the Levites, didn't know whether they belonged to the North or to the South--neither kingdom existed anymore.

The term "Jews" did not just denote the tribe of Judah. All 12 tribes had over a long period of time been amalgamating among those of the tribe of Judah for no other reason than God's temple was there. The Northern Kingdom had erected false religious structures--idols--in two places in the North.

No, they were a nation--not 12 tribes. Of course 12 tribes are still mentioned! They're mentioned in Rev 7! But the question is, Why are they mentioned as such? It is, I believe, to note that God had been faithful to all 12 sons of Jacob, and to all 12 tribes that had emerged. God had loved them all equally. And now they all had been given equal access to the same national identity. You can see that concept clearly in Eze 40-48. They were given a common and collective identity--they belonged to Israel!

James was writing to the 12 tribes of Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed, Where There Is Neither Jew Nor Greek

James 1:1KJV
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

 

[marks]

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make--jokingly--before you took it personal! ;)

Not to belabor the point . . . your comment was what was personal.

No, I don't take offense, because you don't actually know me well enough to come close to offending me. But it doesn't fit with the discussion.

Ok. Enough about that. I'll endeavor to only reply to Scripture discussion and ignore everything else.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

This is coming my friend . You are right about that . My advice , be prepared to lose everything for Christ and even to die for Him .
We will watch as things unfold . In the meantime dont gather with the all inclusive or buy that lie .

I Disagree With Your Claims The Lambs Are Going To Be Slaughtered, It Will Be Just The Opposite Of Your Claims, The Wicked World Needs To Repent And Believe, Read And Heed

It appears your on the wrong TV channel, I disagree with your perception of mass Christian killing, it will be just the opposite

The (Two Witnesses) Of Revelation Chapter 11 Will Be Before The Antichrist His Entire Time In Jerusalem, 1260 days, or 42 months, bringing all plagues as Often as they will, a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

"God's In Control, Not The Antichrist Or World"

Revelation 11:3-6KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Gods divine protection of the Church, Those That Move To Jail Will Be Jailed, And Those That Kill Will Be Killed!

(Here Is The Patience And The Faith Of The Saints)

Revelation 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Only Those Without Gods Seal Of The Holy Spirit Will Be Tormented

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Revelation 16:2-4KJV
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

The Tormented World Will Worship Before The Churches Feet

Revelation 3:9-10KJV
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Luke 21:17-19KJV
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

 

[marks]

You have to be realistic and thick-skinned, Mark.

As if I'm unrealistic, and thin skinned? Is that what you think?

You otherwise seem to be a very decent person.

Are you seeing how you continue in personal comments?

Much love!

 

[marks]

The Great Tribulation Will Come Upon The Wicked World, While The (Sealed Church) Is Protected

The (Sealed Church) will be present on earth and protected, when wicked men are tormented 5 months, desiring to die as death flees

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

Revelation 9:1-6 KJV
1) And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2) And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3) And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4) And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5) And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6) And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

All who are alive on the earth at this time who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads will suffer this fate.

Revelation 7:1-4 KJV
1) And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2) And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

According to this passage, there will be 144,000 men of Israel who will have this seal.

So then there will be 144,000 on the earth who will be protected from this plague, and they will all be Isrealites, sealed before the sounding of the trumpets. If the gentile church is present on the earth at this time, not being Jews, they will not have this seal of God in their foreheads, and therefore would be subject to this locust plague for those 5 months.

Any other conclusion will not have Scripture to support it. That believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit, this does not equal "having the seal of God in their foreheads". The angel brought "the seal of the living God", which is not the same thing as that the Holy Spirit indwells us when we believe. This is something an angel brings out of the east. And it is used to seal 144,000 of Israel.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

.According to this passage, there will be 144,000 men of Israel who will have this seal.
So then there will be 144,000 on the earth who will be protected from this plague, and they will all be Isrealites, sealed before the sounding of the trumpets. If the gentile church is present on the earth at this time, not being Jews, they will not have this seal of God in their foreheads, and therefore would be subject to this locust plague for those 5 months.

The 144,000 will be saved, sealed, and "Added" to the Church present on earth

The (Sealed Church) will be present on earth and protected, when wicked men are tormented 5 months, desiring to die as death flees

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Ephesians 1:13, 4:30, Revelation 22:3-4

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

All Believers Are Sealed, And Have The Name Of God The Lamb

Revelation 22:3-4KJV
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

It Was Commanded, Only Those Without God's Seal Will Be Tormented, The Sealed Church Is Protected

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

 

[marks]

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 KJV
1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Which day won't come? The day of Christ. And of our gathering to our Lord Jesus Christ? Don't be shaken in mind as though the day of Christ (lit.) has arrived. Why would they be shaken in mind by the Day of Christ arriving? And in particular concerning His coming, and our being gathered to Him?

If they understood that they would be gathered to Christ at the Day of Christ, then this would be telling them the time was now, so that's good news. If they understood that they would be gathered after the Day of Christ, then this would still be good news, telling them they were truly getting closer.

It's only if they understood that that they would be gathered before the Day of Christ that they would be troubled, as that is the only viewpoint which would conflict with that news, that the Day of Christ is come, that is, has arrived.

That day - the day of Christ - will not come except the apostasia come first, and the man of sin is revealed. Apostasia has a strong background usage of rebellion, but literally means departure. That day will not come except the departure come first.

Is that statement intented to settle the issue raised just before it?

My understanding of this passage is expressed in,

"You are getting letters and speakers telling you, "this is now the Day of Christ", and you are troubled about that, because you know I told you that the rapture will be first, and then the Day of Christ, which is the Day of the LORD, which is a day of wrath.

Don't pay attention to them, because the Day of the LORD won't come except the departure come first, and the man of sin be revealed."

1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

That day - the day of Christ - will not come except the apostasia come first, and the man of sin is revealed. Apostasia has a strong background usage of rebellion, but literally means departure. That day will not come except the departure come first.

Is that statement intented to settle the issue raised just before it?

My understanding of this passage is expressed in,

"You are getting letters and speakers telling you, "this is now the Day of Christ", and you are troubled about that, because you know I told you that the rapture will be first, and then the Day of Christ, which is the Day of the LORD, which is a day of wrath.

Don't pay attention to them, because the Day of the LORD won't come except the departure come first, and the man of sin be revealed."

1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Much love!

The Ole Dallas Theological Grad (Thomas Ice) And His False Claim That The Greek (Apostasia) Is Interpreted As A Departure Of The Church To Heaven In A Pre-Trib Rapture, Big Smiles!

(Apostasia) Defection From Truth Once Held

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647: defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no pre-trib rapture as dispensationalism falsely teaches

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[marks]

The 144,000 will be saved, sealed, and "Added" to the Church present on earth

The (Sealed Church) will be present on earth and protected, when wicked men are tormented 5 months, desiring to die as death flees

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Ephesians 1:13, 4:30, Revelation 22:3-4

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

All Believers Are Sealed, And Have The Name Of God The Lamb

Revelation 22:3-4KJV
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

It Was Commanded, Only Those Without God's Seal Will Be Tormented, The Sealed Church Is Protected

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

If you make "the seal of the Living God" to be equal to "the Holy Spirit", then that would support your interpretation, but what supports that equality?

That both are seals? There are other seals in the Bible also. And, there are other ways people are marked to differentiate them according to their prospective fates, such as Ezekiel 9, where all those in Jerusalem who were to survive fall of Jerusalem were marked, and the rest killed.

This of course did not apply to others, and was specific to this instance. There is, by the same token, no indication in the Bible that "the seal of the Living God" is used at another time aside from these 144,000, or is there? Am I forgetting something here?

I think if anything is self-evident in the Bible, it's that God isn't going to subject His children to this plague. Personally, I find it unimaginable. Just the same, what I can't imagine doesn't change one way or another what the Bible says. But then it also says that these same 144,000 Israelites are "the servants of God". As we are also called servants of God, where does that leave us? I mean, we may be dead by then, but what of those who are not?

The very next thing John sees, turning from seeing earth to seeing the heavenly,

Revelation 7:9-10 KJV
9) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10) And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no pre-trib rapture as dispensationalism falsely teaches

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

This is true for those who are there at the time. Someone who has already died or been raptured will not be there, but others will be there.

Did you have any response to what I had actually written though?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647: defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

It's good to expand your knowledge beyond Strong's. As I said, apostasia has a strong pattern of usage as "rebellion". The word itself, apo, away from, and stao, I stand, in classical Greek, means "away from standing", that is, departure.

Much love!