Yahavah's name, God's name. Is it important? Did God deem it important?

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Johann

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No one said Jesus was inferior to the Father, he is just in subjection to him...


How hard is this really? @Johann
Biblical Basis for Jesus’ Subjection to the Father
Philippians 2:5-8 (The Incarnation and Humiliation of Christ):

Text: "Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

What is so hard to understand @MatthewG


Explanation: In His incarnation, Jesus, though fully divine and equal with the Father, voluntarily subjected Himself by taking on human nature. What is so hard to understand @MatthewG and where was Jesus BEFORE He came to earth?

This subjection is seen in His willingness to humble Himself, becoming obedient to the Father's will, even to the point of death.
This obedience is a key aspect of His incarnational ministry and is linked to His role as the suffering servant (cf. Isaiah 53).
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (The Future Subjection of the Son):

Text: "Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For 'God has put all things in subjection under his feet.' But when it says, 'all things are put in subjection,' it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all."

Explanation: This passage speaks of the eschatological order when Christ will deliver the kingdom to the Father after the defeat of all enemies. Here, the Son's subjection to the Father is portrayed within the context of the divine plan of redemption. The subjection mentioned in verse 28 does not imply inferiority but rather the harmonious fulfillment of God's redemptive purpose, where the Son, having accomplished His work, subjects Himself to the Father so that "God may be all in all." This reflects the order within the Triune Godhead, where the Son, though equal in essence, willingly submits to the Father in function and role.

John 14:28 (The Relational Subordination):

Text: "You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
Explanation: In this verse, Jesus speaks of the Father being "greater" than Him. This statement must be understood in the context of Jesus' incarnation and His mission on earth. The "greater" refers to the functional subordination of the Son in His incarnate state, where He temporarily sets aside the independent exercise of His divine attributes and submits to the Father's will. This subordination is not ontological (pertaining to His essence) but relational and functional, emphasizing the distinct roles within the Godhead during the economy of salvation.

I really can't help you if you don't understand this-I do, you don't.
Thanks
J.
 

MatthewG

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Biblical Basis for Jesus’ Subjection to the Father
Philippians 2:5-8 (The Incarnation and Humiliation of Christ):

Text: "Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

What is so hard to understand @MatthewG


Explanation: In His incarnation, Jesus, though fully divine and equal with the Father, voluntarily subjected Himself by taking on human nature. What is so hard to understand @MatthewG and where was Jesus BEFORE He came to earth?


This subjection is seen in His willingness to humble Himself, becoming obedient to the Father's will, even to the point of death.
This obedience is a key aspect of His incarnational ministry and is linked to His role as the suffering servant (cf. Isaiah 53).
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (The Future Subjection of the Son):

Text: "Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For 'God has put all things in subjection under his feet.' But when it says, 'all things are put in subjection,' it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all."

Explanation: This passage speaks of the eschatological order when Christ will deliver the kingdom to the Father after the defeat of all enemies. Here, the Son's subjection to the Father is portrayed within the context of the divine plan of redemption. The subjection mentioned in verse 28 does not imply inferiority but rather the harmonious fulfillment of God's redemptive purpose, where the Son, having accomplished His work, subjects Himself to the Father so that "God may be all in all." This reflects the order within the Triune Godhead, where the Son, though equal in essence, willingly submits to the Father in function and role.

John 14:28 (The Relational Subordination):

Text: "You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
Explanation: In this verse, Jesus speaks of the Father being "greater" than Him. This statement must be understood in the context of Jesus' incarnation and His mission on earth. The "greater" refers to the functional subordination of the Son in His incarnate state, where He temporarily sets aside the independent exercise of His divine attributes and submits to the Father's will. This subordination is not ontological (pertaining to His essence) but relational and functional, emphasizing the distinct roles within the Godhead during the economy of salvation.

I really can't help you if you don't understand this-I do, you don't.
Thanks
J.

I just skip this information. I don't have time to read all this stuff, a lot of it is not even your work as far as I know.
Just as much as people continue to skip over Yeshua, making his fathers name known.

That is a personal choice.
 

MatthewG

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Oh by the way @Johann, I hate the trinity, and I hate some the concepts people come up with concerning the Godhead, and all that Jazz...

It still doesn't make God's (YHVH) name less important, ... nor does me hating those subjects/concepts deem me not a "believer in the resurrected Jesus Christ."
 
J

Johann

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I just skip this information. I don't have time to read all this stuff, a lot of it is not even your work as far as I know.
Just as much as people continue to skip over Yeshua, making his fathers name known.

That is a personal choice.
Very immature response coming from you and to be frank-I'm done here.
 

MatthewG

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Very immature response coming from you and to be frank-I'm done here.
Good bye! Thank you for your remarks! You continue to avoid the subject matter, in place of another topic. That is annoying to me too. Im glad your done that was my purpose to hope for you to be done cause no one knows how to just let things be, even myself.
 

keithr

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Part 6: Jesus Christ the Same

What meaneth this statement?

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever.” Hebrews 13:8. Jesus Christ is mentioned, in the New Testament Scriptures, by noun and pronoun more than 6,900 times.
....
Yawn.

Everything should be about giving glory to God, not Jesus - Jesus' name is not above God's. Romans 15:5-7 (WEB):

(5) Now the God of perseverance and of encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus,​
(6) that with one accord you may with one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.​
(7) Therefore accept one another, even as Christ also accepted you, to the glory of God.

John 17:1 (WEB):
(1) Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may also glorify you;​

Philippians 2:11 (WEB):
(11) and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​

1 Peter 4:11 (WEB):
(11) If anyone speaks, let it be as it were the very words of God. If anyone serves, let it be as of the strength which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom {God} belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.​
 
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J

Johann

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Everything should be about giving gory to God, not Jesus - Jesus' name is not above God's. Romans 15:5-7 (WEB):
Jesus IS YHVH-or that slip your mind?

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

You have a problem-right?
Yawn.
 
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JohnDB

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@JohnDB the biggest problem I see, is people denying that Yeshua, made his Fathers name known. Which is okay. However people decide to worship is personal. It doesn't mean that Yahavahs name should continue to made secret or unknown.
When encountering someone clumsily pronouncing God's name....

Do you still know who it is they are talking about?

Does everyone?

Or do they mistake it for the Hindu God?
The Chinese philosphers?
Some African Tribal god?
 

MatthewG

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When encountering someone clumsily pronouncing God's name....

Do you still know who it is they are talking about?

Does everyone?

Or do they mistake it for the Hindu God?
The Chinese philosphers?
Some African Tribal god?

I don’t understand the point of your questions. If it doesn’t matter to you, you shouldn’t care, right? Yahavah is able to reach to all people everywhere today… they may not know his name but they have an interchange with the spirit given to them by him. They could know it in a different language than I would understand.
 
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MatthewG

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Yawn.

Everything should be about giving gory to God, not Jesus - Jesus' name is not above God's. Romans 15:5-7 (WEB):

(5) Now the God of perseverance and of encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus,​
(6) that with one accord you may with one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.​
(7) Therefore accept one another, even as Christ also accepted you, to the glory of God.

John 17:1 (WEB):
(1) Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may also glorify you;​

Philippians 2:11 (WEB):
(11) and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​

1 Peter 4:11 (WEB):
(11) If anyone speaks, let it be as it were the very words of God. If anyone serves, let it be as of the strength which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom {God} belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.​
It’s unfortunate that this simply can’t be accepted… it’s okay ; what people do it’s up to them but those who are “seeking in spirit and in truth” they will come to find truth, cause Yahavah will reward them.


I don’t expect everyone on this forum to just accept the facts concerning the original post… cause we have to choose, what we believe.

Many people put their trust in man, even their doctrine and it can lead to a mess up mind, @keithr.

It’s why the whole of the Bible and knowing it helps, not just some but a lot more than just knowing a little… not that knowledge means nothing compared to agape love.
 

keithr

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Jesus IS YHVH-or that slip your mind?
I 100% disagree with that statement. Jesus is not his own father and son. Jesus did not resurrect himself, "But God raised him from the dead" (Acts 13:30).

You have a problem-right?
No.
 
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Pearl

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I think for a Christian the best name for God is Father or even Papa. When we are born again of the Holy Spirit we become his children and not many children call their father by his name; it would be disrespectful.
 

MatthewG

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Jesus IS YHVH-or that slip your mind?
That’s a common idea. Jesus was very much the Word of God. However Yahavah backed his Word up by his Spirit within the Word that became flesh… there is a great difference.
 

MatthewG

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I think for a Christian the best name for God is Father or even Papa. When we are born again of the Holy Spirit we become his children and not many children call their father by his name; it would be disrespectful.
Some parents love to be called by their first name though. It’s not normal or common but it’s a thing that happens in some families. Your commenting your thoughts and reasonings, what about the original post? Do we stick to the Bible? Throw it away? @Pearl.
 

JohnDB

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I don’t understand the point of your questions. If it doesn’t matter to you, you shouldn’t care, right? Yahavah is able to reach to all people everywhere today… they may not know his name but they have an interchange with the spirit given to them by him. They could know it in a different language than I would understand.
We are Americans....

When I visited Slovakia teaching children to speak English....I taught them tongue twisters to assist them with their pronunciations. (Betty with batter and butter)
So then they tried to get me to do one of theirs....they tied my esophagus in knots.

I simply couldn't do it because I never grew up with the throat sounds they make.

Hebrew has "breathing throat" sounds that go along with their pronunciations.....we don't do that in English.

We can't pronounce the Hebrew version of God's name successfully and with confidence
PLUS
We do not have an equivalent vocabulary construction available to us to create the same meaning as God's tag name in Hebrew holds.

But we know God hears our prayers. And that He knows our tag name as well. (Much more important IMHO)
 

MatthewG

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We are Americans....

When I visited Slovakia teaching children to speak English....I taught them tongue twisters to assist them with their pronunciations. (Betty with batter and butter)
So then they tried to get me to do one of theirs....they tied my esophagus in knots.

I simply couldn't do it because I never grew up with the throat sounds they make.

Hebrew has "breathing throat" sounds that go along with their pronunciations.....we don't do that in English.

We can't pronounce the Hebrew version of God's name successfully and with confidence
PLUS
We do not have an equivalent vocabulary construction available to us to create the same meaning as God's tag name in Hebrew holds.

But we know God hears our prayers. And that He knows our tag name as well. (Much more important IMHO)

No doubt. If a seeker desires to get close to Yahavah, he will let them near him. Jesus made his Fathers name known. It’s not something which is so strict to adhere to; it’s just a topic of discussion.

Do or don’t; the name was made known.

Jesus made his Fathers name known….

:no reply:
 

JohnDB

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No doubt. If a seeker desires to get close to Yahavah, he will let them near him. Jesus made his Fathers name known. It’s not something which is so strict to adhere to; it’s just a topic of discussion.

Do or don’t; the name was made known.

Jesus made his Fathers name known….

:no reply:
My esophagus is still recovering from being in knots....

God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and father of Jesus....
That works too....
 

MatthewG

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I guess that’s my biggest issue, with those who suggest you shouldn’t even try to speak Gods name…

You claim to follow Jesus, and that he lives in you and your abide in him and you pray to God in Jesus name…

And the one you say you follow made his Fathers name known!

Why can’t other followers of Yeshua make the Fathers name known?

My esophagus is still recovering from being in knots....
Okay. That happens sometimes, sorry bout that… may your recovery be swift.
God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and father of Jesus....
That works too....
It’s just a conversation, not a fight right. :)
 
J

Johann

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I 100% disagree with that statement. Jesus is not his own father and son. Jesus did not resurrect himself, "But God raised him from the dead" (Acts 13:30).


No.
Try again and when you are mature we can debate.
John 8:58 and Exodus 3:14
John 8:58 (Greek):

Text: "εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς· ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγώ εἰμι."
Transliteration: "Eipen autois Iēsous; Amēn, amēn legō hymin, prin Abraam genesthai egō eimi."
Translation: "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.'"
Exodus 3:14 (Hebrew):

Text: "וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים אֶל־מֹשֶׁה אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה וַיֹּאמֶר כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶהְיֶה שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם."
Transliteration: "Vayomer Elohim el-Mosheh, 'Ehyeh asher Ehyeh'; vayomer, 'Ko tomar livnei Yisrael, Ehyeh shelachani aleichem.'"
Translation: "God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM.' And He said, 'Say this to the people of Israel: "I AM has sent me to you."'"
Explanation:
In John 8:58, Jesus uses the phrase "ἐγώ εἰμι" (egō eimi), meaning "I am," which directly echoes the divine name revealed to Moses in Exodus 3:14, "אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה" (Ehyeh asher Ehyeh), often translated as "I AM WHO I AM." By saying "before Abraham was, I am," Jesus is not only asserting His pre-existence but also directly identifying Himself with Yahweh, the "I AM" of the burning bush. The reaction of the Jews, who immediately took up stones to stone Him (John 8:59), shows they understood this as a claim to divinity.

2. Isaiah 6:1-5 and John 12:41
Isaiah 6:1-5 (Hebrew):

Text: "בִּשְׁנַת מוֹת הַמֶּלֶךְ עֻזִּיָּהוּ וָאֶרְאֶה אֶת־אֲדֹנָי יֹשֵׁב עַל־כִּסֵּא רָם וְנִשָּׂא וְשׁוּלָיו מְלֵאִים אֶת־הֵיכָל."
Transliteration: "Bishnat mot ha-melekh Uziyahu va-er'eh et-Adonai yoshev al-kisse ram venisa veshulav meleim et-heikhal."
Translation: "In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple."
John 12:41 (Greek):

Text: "Ταῦτα εἶπεν Ἠσαΐας ὅτι εἶδεν τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐλάλησεν περὶ αὐτοῦ."
Transliteration: "Tauta eipen Ēsaias hoti eiden tēn doxan autou kai elalēsen peri autou."
Translation: "Isaiah said these things because he saw His glory and spoke of Him."
Explanation:
In Isaiah 6:1-5, the prophet Isaiah has a vision of Yahweh (אֲדֹנָי, Adonai) in the temple, where he sees the Lord "high and lifted up." John 12:41 refers to this vision and states that Isaiah "saw His glory and spoke of Him," referring to Jesus. This implies that the glory Isaiah saw was the glory of Jesus, thus identifying Jesus with Yahweh whom Isaiah saw. The New Testament writer John explicitly connects the vision of Yahweh in the Old Testament to Jesus, indicating that Jesus is indeed Yahweh in His pre-incarnate form.

3. Psalm 102:25-27 and Hebrews 1:10-12
Psalm 102:25-27 (Hebrew):

Text: "לְפָנִים הָאָרֶץ יָסַדְתָּ וּמַעֲשֵׂה יָדֶיךָ שָׁמָיִם. הֵמָּה יֹאבֵדוּ וְאַתָּה תַעֲמֹד וְכֻלָּם כַּבֶּגֶד יִבְלוּ כַלְּבוּשׁ תַּחֲלִיפֵם וְיַחֲלֹפוּ. וְאַתָּה־הוּא וּשְׁנֹתֶיךָ לֹא יִתָּמּוּ."
Transliteration: "L'fanīm ha-aretz yasadta, u-ma'aseh yadekha shamayim. Hemah yo'vedu v'atah ta'amod, ve-chulam ka-beged yivlu; ka-levush tahaliphem v'yachalof. Ve-atah hu ushenotekha lo yitammu."
Translation: "Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away, but you are the same, and your years have no end."
Hebrews 1:10-12 (Greek):

Text: "Καὶ, Σὺ κατ’ ἀρχάς, Κύριε, τὴν γῆν ἐθεμελίωσας, καὶ ἔργα τῶν χειρῶν σου εἰσὶν οἱ οὐρανοί· αὐτοὶ ἀπολοῦνται, σὺ δὲ διαμένεις· καὶ πάντες ὡς ἱμάτιον παλαιωθήσονται, καὶ ὡσεὶ περιβόλαιον ἑλίξεις αὐτούς, καὶ ἀλλαγήσονται· σὺ δὲ ὁ αὐτὸς εἶ, καὶ τὰ ἔτη σου οὐκ ἐκλείψουσιν."
Transliteration: "Kai, Sy kat' archas, Kyrie, tēn gēn ethemeliōsas, kai erga tōn cheirōn sou eisin hoi ouranoi. Autoi apolountai, sy de diameineis; kai pantes hōs himation palaiōthēsontai, kai hōsei peribolaion helixeis autous kai allagēsontai. Sy de ho autos ei, kai ta etē sou ouk ekleipsousin."
Translation: "And, 'You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.'"
Explanation:
Psalm 102:25-27 speaks of Yahweh as the eternal creator who remains unchanged even as the heavens and the earth perish. The author of Hebrews directly applies this passage to Jesus in Hebrews 1:10-12, thereby identifying Jesus as the creator and sustainer of all things, who is eternal and unchanging. By applying a passage that refers to Yahweh directly to Jesus, the author of Hebrews affirms that Jesus is Yahweh, sharing in the divine attributes of eternality and immutability.

4. Isaiah 45:22-23 and Philippians 2:10-11
Isaiah 45:22-23 (Hebrew):

Text: "פְּנוּ־אֵלַי וְהִוָּשְׁעוּ כָּל־אַפְסֵי־אָרֶץ כִּי אֲנִי־אֵל וְאֵין עוֹד. בִּי נִשְׁבַּעְתִּי יָצָא מִפִּי צֶדֶק דָּבָר וְלֹא יָשׁוּב כִּי־לִי תִּכְרַע כָּל־בֶּרֶךְ תִּשָּׁבַע כָּל־לָשׁוֹן."
Transliteration: "P'nu-elai v'hivvashe'u kol-afsei-aretz, ki ani-El ve-ein od. Bi nishba'ti, yatza mi-pi tzedek davar velo yashuv, ki-li tichra kol-berekh, tishava kol-lashon."
Translation: "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: 'To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.'"
Philippians 2:10-11 (Greek):

Text: "ἵνα ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ πᾶν γόνυ κάμψῃ ἐπουρανίων καὶ ἐπιγείων καὶ καταχθονίων, καὶ πᾶσα γλῶσσα ἐξομολογήσηται ὅτι Κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς εἰς δόξαν Θεοῦ Πατρός."
Transliteration: "Hina en tō onomati Iēsou pan gony kampsē epouraniōn kai epigeiōn kai katachthoniōn, kai pasa glōssa exomologēsētai hoti Kyrios Iēsous Christos eis doxan Theou Patros."
Translation: "So that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Explanation:
In Isaiah 45:22-23, Yahweh declares that every knee will bow and every tongue will swear allegiance to Him. In Philippians 2:10-11, Paul applies this passage to Jesus, stating that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. The Greek word "Κύριος" (Kyrios) used for "Lord" in Philippians is the same word used in the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament) to translate the Hebrew "יהוה" (Yahweh). Thus, by applying Isaiah’s prophecy to Jesus, Paul is identifying Jesus as Yahweh, the one true God to whom all creation owes allegiance.


Listen and learn.
J.