Will you be caught up in the rapture or left-behind??

[CadyandZoe]

It seems to me that all who were not in the ark were busy trying not to drown in the flood waters that took them away.

Okay, I get you. But can we ask why they weren't in the ark, to begin with? (just making conversation) Perhaps the Lord's point depends on the contrast between Noah's experience as opposed to that of the flood victim's. Of course, Noah's fate was different than that of the victim's. That goes without saying. But I can think of another difference. Noah prepared for the flood; the flood victims didn't prepare.

Maybe Jesus is focused on preparations? Maybe his central point is "When the Son of Man comes some will be prepared but not others?"

Just asking.

 

[CadyandZoe]

@CadyandZoe @rwb

Visibility during this extreme heavy rain would of been less then 100 feet.

Everyone was fleeing into shelters and when that failed, they sought higher ground IF they were even able to find it.

Have you ever been in a heavy down pour while driving and you litteraly cannot see beyond 30 feet.

Yes. I have driven in a hard rain. But I have never experienced a flood firsthand. What you say sounds right.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes. I have driven in a hard rain. But I have never experienced a flood firsthand. What you say sounds right.

CadyandZoe,

Genesis ch7
And it came to pass after seven days that the waters of the flood were on the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.

In just 7 days the earth was flooded = the most catastrophic downpour of water from above and beneath the world ever witnessed.

People were drowning in a worldwide catastrophie of darkness, extreme heavy rain, flash flooding, mudslides, tsunamis, whirlpools, etc


With today's technology (TV, Internet) we can witness such events still taking place on earth in small scale but still deadly = now multiply what you can observe by 1,000,000

Peace and have a Great Day in the LORD Today

 

[CadyandZoe]

CadyandZoe,

Genesis ch7
And it came to pass after seven days that the waters of the flood were on the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.

In just 7 days the earth was flooded = the most catastrophic downpour of water from above and beneath the world ever witnessed.

People were drowning in a worldwide catastrophie of darknes, extreme heavy rain, flash flooding, mudslides, tsunamis, whirlpools, etc


With today's technology (TV, Internet) we can witness such events still taking place on earth in small scale but still deadly = now multiply what you can observe by 1,000,000

Peace and have a Great Day in the LORD Today

Thank you. May the Lord richly bless you.
I guess I am having a bit of trouble with the concept of "taken away" with regard to a worldwide flood. :) Suppose flood waters took me from my home out into the ocean. This seems to suggest some kind of displacement from Point A to Point B. But I can't seem to envision the displacement of people during a worldwide flood since the water is everywhere.

Am I overthinking it?

 

[David in NJ]

Thank you. May the Lord richly bless you.
I guess I am having a bit of trouble with the concept of "taken away" with regard to a worldwide flood. :) Suppose flood waters took me from my home out into the ocean. This seems to suggest some kind of displacement from Point A to Point B. But I can't seem to envision the displacement of people during a worldwide flood since the water is everywhere.

Am I overthinking it?

Peace = the LORD applied the word 'taken/gathered' for BOTH the Saved and the Wicked

So at times you will see the Saved are taken/gathered and also the wicked are taken/gathered.

Example: Matthew 13:24-30

Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

 

[David in NJ]

Thank you. May the Lord richly bless you.
I guess I am having a bit of trouble with the concept of "taken away" with regard to a worldwide flood. :) Suppose flood waters took me from my home out into the ocean. This seems to suggest some kind of displacement from Point A to Point B. But I can't seem to envision the displacement of people during a worldwide flood since the water is everywhere.

Am I overthinking it?

YES, i had to learn the simplicity in Christ = do not overthink, instead we absorb Scripture and then allow the work of the Holy Spirit over time and prayer to bring things to light.

KEY to understanding = Proverbs 30:5-6

 

[rwb]

Okay, I get you. But can we ask why they weren't in the ark, to begin with? (just making conversation) Perhaps the Lord's point depends on the contrast between Noah's experience as opposed to that of the flood victim's. Of course, Noah's fate was different than that of the victim's. That goes without saying. But I can think of another difference. Noah prepared for the flood; the flood victims didn't prepare.

Maybe Jesus is focused on preparations? Maybe his central point is "When the Son of Man comes some will be prepared but not others?"

Just asking.

Yes and those, unlike righteous Noah, were not prepared so they were the ones taken by the flood waters when water covered the earth. Since they did not heed the words of righteous Noah they perished with every living thing in the world. Those who were of the world, perished with the world that was before the flood. In the same manner whosoever is unprepared for the day of judgment that shall come upon the whole world of ungodly men shall not escape the fire coming on that day.

2 Peter 3:5-7 (KJV) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

1 Peter 3:20 (KJV) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Those taken away perished by the waters of the flood were the unrighteous, while the eight souls on the ark were saved by/through the water being safe in the ark.

 

[David in NJ]

Okay, I get you. But can we ask why they weren't in the ark, to begin with? (just making conversation) Perhaps the Lord's point depends on the contrast between Noah's experience as opposed to that of the flood victim's. Of course, Noah's fate was different than that of the victim's. That goes without saying. But I can think of another difference. Noah prepared for the flood; the flood victims didn't prepare.

Maybe Jesus is focused on preparations? Maybe his central point is "When the Son of Man comes some will be prepared but not others?"

Just asking.

BINGO

 

[Timtofly]

There are only two possible meanings if you do not know which is the correct one.

The correct answer and affirmation is given in the direct statement from the LORD.

Matt ch24
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of [f]heaven, but My Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

All were taken away, both Noah and the wicked. Neither represented the church. The church was represented by Enoch, who was taken away prior to even the wickedness, 600 years before the Flood.

Noah lived through the hundreds of years of wickedness, and was righteous, and was taken away to safety, but not as the church. Noah represents Israel who will be kept safely during the tribulation and will be taken away, but return to a new heaven and earth, after God's judgment, and restoration. This time it will be trial by fire, not water.

 

[David in NJ]

All were taken away, both Noah and the wicked. Neither represented the church. The church was represented by Enoch, who was taken away prior to even the wickedness, 600 years before the Flood.

Noah lived through the hundreds of years of wickedness, and was righteous, and was taken away to safety, but not as the church. Noah represents Israel who will be kept safely during the tribulation and will be taken away, but return to a new heaven and earth, after God's judgment, and restoration. This time it will be trial by fire, not water.

Enoch NEVER represented the church = NEVER

But He was the First 'Look and SEE' prophetic = CHRIST

 

[PinSeeker]

The "bema" seat, is after you die, or once you are Raptured.

Well, some will not have died; there will be some who are still alive when Jesus returns.

It doesn't happen on earth.

Disagree.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

You've omitted the GWTJ from Rev 20.

Well... I just didn't put it in, because I thought what I had sufficient, and maybe somewhat because Revelation 20 presents... problems... for some folks... :)

That tells us it is "the dead" who are judged according to what is found written in the books and the book of life. I don't dispute the FACT that Scripture says ALL are accountable to God, whether we have done good or evil. But those who have done good are already clothed in the righteousness of Christ when every human is called to stand before God. It is when the last trumpet sounds the return of Christ that the faithful are bodily resurrected immortal and incorruptible. This is because in life the faithful surrendered their lives to Christ according to grace through faith. Therefore the faithful saints having already been judged in Christ's righteousness shall not be judged among the dead according to what is written in the books and the book of life.

Preaching to the choir, here, RWB... :)

Those standing at the right hand of Christ have already been judged through the blood of Christ, and have already overcome the second death.

I might quibble with this a bit. Those standing at the right hand of Christ will already have been imputed with the righteousness of Christ, and that's why we will stand in the Judgment; we will be and remain in the congregation of the righteous (Psalm 1), but we will be judged, along with everyone else, according to what we have done (our works), but because we are in Christ, our works will have been works/fruit of the Spirit.

So rather than judgment those standing on His right shall hear "Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." Believers are the good and faithful servant because Christ is the good and faithful servant, and we have partaken of Him in life and have already passed from condemnation and death to eternal life through Him.

Right... I think we're talking about two different things, really, RWB. We will be judged ~ in the sense of whether or not we have done well or not, but we will not be subject to the judgment ~ consigned to the second death ~ that results in not having done well. We will have been resurrected to eternal life rather than to judgment. I think we agree, we were just talking past each other in a sense.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Behold]

Well, some will not have died; there will be some who are still alive when Jesus returns.

Yes.

but the Bema Seat is in Heaven.
So, how can the "alive" believer, face it?

"The Rapture" that will occur before the 2nd Advent.

 

[PinSeeker]

...the Bema Seat is in Heaven.

For now... :)

But the discussion here is concerning the final Judgment, as depicted in various ways in various places, namely Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:11-15, at the conclusion of which the wicked, who will not stand in the judgment (Psalm 1), depart from Jesus in obedience (Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41). This is subsequent to Jesus's return to earth. After the final Judgment, the new Jerusalem is seen coming down out of heaven from God, giving us the clear mental picture that what has just occurred is on earth, and now the dwelling place of God is going to be with man, and God himself will be with them as their God (Revelation 21:3).

So, how can the "alive" believer, face it?

Because he or she is already clothed with the righteousness of Christ, so he or she will stand in the judgment, in the congregation of the righteous. In this final Judgment, believers, whether still alive or having been resurrected, are secure in Christ, but they still must appear before the judgment seat of Christ.

"The Rapture" that will occur before the 2nd Advent.

Hm. Disagree. There will be no "rapture" wherein believers are extracted from the earth for any significant period of time. At the second advent of Christ, those who are still alive will go out to meet Him, as loyal subjects of the King. In short order the second resurrection ~ many to eternal life, the others to judgement, as John 5 :28-29 says ~ will occur, in such short order as to be considered part of the same big Event, and then the final Judgment will take place. Many, those who are not able to stand in the judgment, in the congregation of the righteous, will depart, and many... will not. :)

Grace and peace to you, Behold.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Hm. Disagree. There will be no "rapture" wherein believers are extracted from the earth for any significant period of time.

Hmm. Respectfully Disagree:

God's Great GRACE Departure!

Amen.

 

[Timtofly]

Enoch NEVER represented the church = NEVER

But He was the First 'Look and SEE' prophetic = CHRIST

And the church is not the body of Christ?

 

[David in NJ]

And the church is not the body of Christ?

Enoch is not the 'church'.

Enoch was a prophet as was Elijah.

 

[ewq1938]

I didn't mean to give that impression. Sorry. Of course, you are right. Noah and his family knew that the flood was coming.

Here is how I envision the situation. Noah spent years building the ark. And during that time his neighbors undoubtedly asked Noah what he was doing and why.

Undoubtedly? There isn't anything in the bible about any neighbors at all let alone them asking anything.

Since Noah and Lot are sister stories that teach the same basic concepts, and the people of Sodom had no idea what was coming, I think the same is true of the people of Noah's day. Yes Noah was a preacher of righteousness but that doesn't mean he preached to people outside of his immediate family.

 

[David in NJ]

I agree. This is one plausible understanding. Let's remove a bit of your proposal so that I can ask you a question

Original Proposal:
Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man:
People were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.
Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

Modification (for the purpose of discussion only.)
Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man:
People were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage,
Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

Question? After removing the sentence about Noah entering the ark. Did we lose Jesus' point?

Supposing for the sake of discussion, Jesus meant to illustrate the idea that sometimes disaster strikes while people are unaware. Both examples above make that point, right? People were going about their normal lives and then the flood took them all away.

But Jesus included the fact about Noah entering the ark and so we must conclude that it matters to the point Jesus wants to make. I think we can both agree that his remark about Noah entering the Ark isn't a throwaway phrase. Jesus mentions it because he intends to say more about his coming than "people will be caught unawares." Right?

I'm not arguing here, just thinking about it aloud. Jesus seems to be saying more than "expect the unexpected."

In Luke Jesus uses Lot to make the same point. I don't think we can say that if the citizens of Sodom were expecting the unexpected, they would have been saved. None of the citizens of Sodom expected destruction, not even Lot. He also was unaware of the destruction until the day that the Angles removed Lot from Sodom. Lot had no advanced warning and neither did he have prior warning of the event.

Can't we say that although God decided to destroy a city, in his mercy he decided to save a few people? Does Jesus mean to say, "When the son of man comes, many people will get caught in an unexpected disaster but God will save a few people?

And how will he save them? He will take them out of the way?

Just discussing.

Lot knew that the people of Sodom & Gomorrah were vile and in deep sin against God.

2 Peter 2: 4-11
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8(for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.

Notice how both the LORD and the Apostle Peter connect Noah and Lot and the destruction that came down.

The emphasis by the LORD and the Apostle Peter is:
#1.) God knows who belong to Him and He is able to keep them from Judgment
#2.) The world does not know God, neither do they desire God = 2 Thess ch2
#3.) Judgment/Wrath is coming again because the same vile sins are being committed as in the days of Noah and Lot.

 

[Timtofly]

Enoch is not the 'church'.

Enoch was a prophet as was Elijah.

Or they both are the same person.

Of course Enoch is part of the church and a type of the church. You don't expect to be translated out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh? You plan on showing up in your own self righteousness, instead of God's translation process?

"And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

If you are not translated like Enoch was, you will be that man without a wedding garment. Paul said we will all be changed. That is what being translated means. You think God limits His plan of redemption to certain time periods?