Why you don't have to speak in tongues - Or do you?

[David in NJ]

God is showing you no new thing! Moses was enabled to perform miracles to authenticate his ministry before Pharaoh (Exodus 4:1–8). Elijah was given miracles to authenticate his ministry before Ahab (1 Kings 17:1; 18:24). The apostles were given miracles to authenticate their ministry before Israel (Acts 4:10, 16).

@David in NJ why is it so difficult for you to acknowledge this?

'Nuttin' hard about it for i BELIEVE "It is written"

 

[talons]

The reason I say that only #3 is a "gift" of the Holy Spirit, is because it is LISTED in the GIFTS of the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians chapter 12.

Certainly anyone could say that any manifestation of the Holy Spirit is a gift, but I would say NOT officially.

I have prayed in tongues .
I have sang in tongues .
I have gave a message out in tongues that required no interpretation because it was their language they heard it in .

I am kind of new here so I do not know much of your history @St. SteVen , so what is your experience in Gift of Tongues ?

 

[St. SteVen]

I have prayed in tongues .
I have sang in tongues .
I have gave a message out in tongues that required no interpretation because it was their language they heard it in .

I am kind of new here so I do not know much of your history @St. SteVen , so what is your experience in Gift of Tongues ?

I have never delivered a message in tongues to the congregation. (what I call the gift of tongues)
I have felt that urge, but have not gone forward with it. Messages in tongues are VERY rare at my church.
I do have a personal prayer language. I have interceded for others in tongues. I sing in the Spirit during worship.
I have never experienced evangelistic tongues. (but that is VERY rare)

[

 

[face2face]

'Nuttin' hard about it for i BELIEVE "It is written"

The issue it appears is you don't understand what is written...meaning you can believe whatever tickles your fancy!

 

[David in NJ]

The issue it appears is you don't understand what is written...meaning you can believe whatever tickles your fancy!

This is too funny...............ty

 

[face2face]

I have prayed in tongues .
I have sang in tongues .
I have gave a message out in tongues that required no interpretation because it was their language they heard it in .

I am kind of new here so I do not know much of your history @St. SteVen , so what is your experience in Gift of Tongues ?

When all this is revealed for what it is, so many will need to replace their foundations...its going to be a day of all days when he comes.
F2F

 

[face2face]

This is too funny...............ty

The main two reasons for the gifts?
Have you got them from what is written yet?

 

[face2face]

I have prayed in tongues .
I have sang in tongues .
I have gave a message out in tongues that required no interpretation because it was their language they heard it in .

I am kind of new here so I do not know much of your history @St. SteVen , so what is your experience in Gift of Tongues ?

The first occurrence of speaking in tongues occurred on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:1–4. The apostles went out and shared the gospel with the crowds, speaking to them in their own languages: “We hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” (Acts 2:11).

Its one thing to deceive, but its another to allow yourself to be deceived.

F2F

 

[talons]

The first occurrence of speaking in tongues occurred on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:1–4. The apostles went out and shared the gospel with the crowds, speaking to them in their own languages: “We hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” (Acts 2:11).

Its one thing to deceive, but its another to allow yourself to be deceived.

F2F

Help me out here . How would I test to see if I am deceived ?

 

[face2face]

Pentecostals refer to "speaking in tongues" as unintelligible speech uttered in a state of religious fervor.

We want to explore the Biblical evidence for such an activity to see if this is in fact something God had in mind, or is this humanism. Already St Steven, David and talons have suggested they have felt such a desire to take part in this unintelligible speech.

For the one speaking in a tongue does not speak to people but to God, for no one understands; he is speaking mysteries by the Spirit
1 Co 14:1–2.

"Glossa" and "dialektos" are used interchangeably in Scripture. In Acts 2:4 the word for "tongues" is "glossa" but in verse 8 the word for "tongues" is "dialektos" (translated "language", R.S.V.)

"Glossa" refers to foreign languages in the following passages: Rev. 5:9; 7:9; 10:11; 11:9; 13:7; 14:6; 17:15. "Glossa" also means intelligible speech in the following passages: Rom. 14:11; Phil. 2:11; 1 Jn. 3:18

So what was the actual experience of this like and how do we correctly interpret 1 Cor 14:1-2?

When the disciples spoke in tongues as recorded in Acts 2, fifteen languages or dialects were spoken. Every man heard them speak in his own language. (Acts 2:7,8). Galilean fisherman could speak the language of the Elamites although the language had never been the subject of study.

So what is the problem today?

Pentecostal meetings are characterized by unintelligible speech, not foreign languages, which have been unlearned.

So are there honest Pentcostals here who are identify the differences from the NT Gift to current day practices?

I'll follow with the contradictions shortly.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Help me out here . How would I test to see if I am deceived ?

You would study the Word of God and apply the test's.

 

[face2face]

Help me out here . How would I test to see if I am deceived ?

If it was shown you your experience is confirmation bias coupled with heightened emotional and brain chemicals giving the illusion of speaking to God and God speaking through you. It's pure gibberish - it starts off as mimicing the gibberish then you become convinced it is real.

But this cannot be told to you, you need to work this out for youself

F2F

 

[GodsGrace]

This is a challenging topic, one that can discourage sincere believers who long for spiritual gifts and may even believe they possess them, like @David in NJ. Can he speak in multiple languages at will? No. Can he raise someone from the dead? No. Can he give prophetic utterances and allow others to test him to verify if he is truly a prophet? The answer is no.

What is unfolding in this discussion mirrors what happened during the time of the prophets, when people claimed, "I've had a vision from the Lord," or "I've done this or that in His Name," yet God responded, "I did not send them!"

The purpose of the spiritual gifts was to help the Gospel take root and spread throughout the earth. Once that had been achieved the gifts ceased.

F2F

Certainly the miracles of Jesus were for the exact reason you've stated....to prove that He was God.
The story of the paralyzed man is the perfect story for this....
Your sins are forgiven....only God can forgive sins.
To prove:
Get up and walk.
Matthew 9:5-8
Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” Then the man got up and went home.

What are the Gifts of the Holy Spirit?​

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are unique skills and abilities given by the Holy Spirit to faithful followers of Christ to serve God for the common benefit of his people, the church. A listing of spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 mentions
wisdom,
knowledge,
faith,
healing,
miracles,
prophecy,
discerning of spirits,
speaking in tongues,
and interpretation of tongues.

The source is Wiki, maybe not the best source...but it was compact.

Wisdom......not every Christian has wisdom....but some do.
Knowledge Ditto
Faith All
Healing Some
Miracles same as healing?
Prophecy No further revelation is accepted with Christianity.
Discerning of spirits Some
Speaking Tongues Some
Interpretation Some

1 Corinthians 12:4-11
4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.
5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord.
6There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, a and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

The above states that different gifts are given to different persons for the common good.
This thread is about tongues....
So you believe this gift has ceased. (if I've understood).

Do you believe ALL the gifts have ceased?
That would include Wisdom, Knowledge, and Faith also.....
right?

If not all of them have ceased - which is obvious that they haven't...then how can
you say that particular ones have ceased??

 

[St. SteVen]

Wisdom......not every Christian has wisdom....but some do.
Knowledge Ditto
Faith All
Healing Some
Miracles same as healing?
Prophecy No further revelation is accepted with Christianity.
Discerning of spirits Some
Speaking Tongues Some
Interpretation Some

It seems that you are mistaking natural abilities for supernatural manifestations of the Spirit.

Did you take the class: Discover Your Gift? - LOL

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Certainly the miracles of Jesus were for the exact reason you've stated....to prove that He was God.

I believe Jesus performed his miracles in his humanity, not in his deity.
How could he expect us to do miracles if you have to be God to perform them?

Matthew 10:8 NIV
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons.
Freely you have received; freely give.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Your sins are forgiven....only God can forgive sins.

Jesus gave us authority to forgive sins as well.

John 20:23 NIV
If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

[

 

[Deborah_]

Pentecostals refer to "speaking in tongues" as unintelligible speech uttered in a state of religious fervor

"in a state of religious fervour"?
I have often prayed in tongues while driving. It doesn't impair my concentration because it doesn't involve my brain - it's rather like listening to the radio, except that the sound comes out of my own mouth.
I've no doubt that some people do speak in tongues while in an ecstatic state, but the ecstasy isn't essential.

The apostles went out and shared the gospel with the crowds, speaking to them in their own languages: “We hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” (Acts 2:11)

Obviously we have different understandings of the passage here. The way I read it, the apostles began by speaking/singing praises to God in various tongues. This drew the crowd together. Then Peter (just Peter!) preached the gospel to them - presumably in Greek, which was the lingua franca of the time, since Luke tells us what he said.

 

[GodsGrace]

It seems that you are mistaking natural abilities for supernatural manifestations of the Spirit.

Did you take the class: Discover Your Gift? - LOL

[

I use the bible....as usual.

I even posted the scripture where all the gifts are mentioned.
I'm trying to make a point with the other member......

ALL gifts given to us by God are necessarily SUPERNATURAL.

The MANIFESTATION would be in the visible aspect of the gift itself.

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe Jesus performed his miracles in his humanity, not in his deity.
How could he expect us to do miracles if you have to be God to perform them?

Matthew 10:8 NIV
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons.
Freely you have received; freely give.

[

Did YOU take the class:
WHY DID JESUS PERFORM MIRACLES?

Do YOU know anybody who was able to raise someone from the dead?

Do you know about the hypostatic union?

The other member is making the point that gifts have ceased.

Maybe ? he's right.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus gave us authority to forgive sins as well.

John 20:23 NIV
If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Jesus gave THE APOSTLES the right to forgive sins in the way you mean it here.
Not all of us.

God gave the authority to JESUS...
JESUS passed it on to the Apostles.....

Question: Did THEY pass it on to anyone?

Different topic....

You and I cannot forgive sins because Jesus did not give that gift to US.

It's not listed in 1 Corinthians.