Why trust the "Early Fathers?"

MatthewG · Dec 7, 2024

Why would you put trust in the "Early Fathers?"

Do they dictate the life of the spiritual? Could an Early Father ever be wrong about something? I get people study and go to college and everything concerning these things, but does trusting in the "Early Fathers" really make a difference in someones life who actively seeks for the Father in heaven, and live by the spirit of Christ?

Verily · Dec 7, 2024

MatthewG said:
Why would you put trust in the "Early Fathers?"

Do they dictate the life of the spiritual? Could an Early Father ever be wrong about something? I get people study and go to college and everything concerning these things, but does trusting in the "Early Fathers" really make a difference in someones life who actively seeks for the Father in heaven, and live by the spirit of Christ?

I never studied them or much of anything that come afterward, Paul speaks of the things that were written before him were the things to pay attention to (not much good is prophesied to come after)

1 Cr 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

2 Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2 Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Why go elsewhere is how I reason with things

Deborah_ · Dec 7, 2024

We shouldn't trust in any theologian, ancient or modern, if that means accepting everything they say or write without question.

Nevertheless, they can be valuable sources of insight. The particular value of the early Church Fathers is that Greek (the language of the New Testament) was their native language, they were only a few generations away from the apostles, and they lived in a similar culture. So there were probably many things that they could see and understand more clearly than we can!

I haven't read a great deal of them, but I'm aware that they disagree amongst themselves over many issues - just as theologians do today.

Bob · Dec 7, 2024

Thank you for the question.

It would appear Martin Luther agrees with you completely, since it was he who said, “sola scriptura”!

Blessings.

ScottA · Dec 7, 2024

MatthewG said:
Why would you put trust in the "Early Fathers?"

Do they dictate the life of the spiritual? Could an Early Father ever be wrong about something? I get people study and go to college and everything concerning these things, but does trusting in the "Early Fathers" really make a difference in someones life who actively seeks for the Father in heaven, and live by the spirit of Christ?

Haha...that's a double-edged sword!

On one hand, the providence of God placed His word in their hands...so yes, in some respects we are to trust. Well, in God rather, and perhaps not so much in the early church fathers.

On the other hand, Jesus found "somewhat against" 5 out of the 7 early churches in Revelation; Peter warned of false teachers entering into the church spreading destructive doctrines; and Paul foretold the believing of a "lie" that would without a doubt cause "strong delusion" and "great apostacy."

What is missing in that, and nearly completely overlooked in the book of Revelation (following Jesus' promise to lead us unto all truth during that same time period of foretold apostacy)--is the revelation that there was a "little book" of which the contents were sealed, that would reveal all--but not until just before the end of time.

DJT_47 · Dec 10, 2024

I only trust scripture. That's all you need.

FearTheLord · Dec 10, 2024

MatthewG said:
Why would you put trust in the "Early Fathers?"

Do they dictate the life of the spiritual? Could an Early Father ever be wrong about something? I get people study and go to college and everything concerning these things, but does trusting in the "Early Fathers" really make a difference in someones life who actively seeks for the Father in heaven, and live by the spirit of Christ?

I don't think we should trust them at all. They're the reason Catholic and Orthodox "Apostolic Succession" rose to prominence with all their "doctrinal developments." Irenaeus thought that Jesus died around the age of fifty, and half (or even all) of Ignatius' epistles are commonly understood to be forgeries.

If we trust the Bible, the Apostolic Age ended in 70 AD, when Jesus came back to gather up the faithful saints and to destroy Jerusalem; but the "church fathers" would conveniently have us believe that John was still around to pass the apostolic torch. It would seem that the tradition of the church fathers was started by the heretics who were left behind.

As far as I'm concerned the writings of the church fathers are Catholic/Orthodox propaganda.

Marymog · Dec 12, 2024

MatthewG said:
Why would you put trust in the "Early Fathers?"

Do they dictate the life of the spiritual? Could an Early Father ever be wrong about something? I get people study and go to college and everything concerning these things, but does trusting in the "Early Fathers" really make a difference in someones life who actively seeks for the Father in heaven, and live by the spirit of Christ?

Why?

Because they lived closest to the time of Christ/Apostles and some were students of the Apostles.

Why trust Protestant Reformers if they teach different than the early fathers?

PS: I consider the "early fathers" as the Apostolic Fathers or fathers that lived close to their lifetime.

Ronald Nolette · Dec 12, 2024

MatthewG said:
Why would you put trust in the "Early Fathers?"

Do they dictate the life of the spiritual? Could an Early Father ever be wrong about something? I get people study and go to college and everything concerning these things, but does trusting in the "Early Fathers" really make a difference in someones life who actively seeks for the Father in heaven, and live by the spirit of Christ?

We are trust them as they are coorect according to Scripture. We must be like teh Bereans, read their words and then compare them to SCripture, just like we do with modern preachers and teachers.

Skovand · Dec 14, 2024

MatthewG said:
Why would you put trust in the "Early Fathers?"

Do they dictate the life of the spiritual? Could an Early Father ever be wrong about something? I get people study and go to college and everything concerning these things, but does trusting in the "Early Fathers" really make a difference in someones life who actively seeks for the Father in heaven, and live by the spirit of Christ?

So what people do is look at a wide range of sources to better help understand the Bible. Things like writings by early church fathers can help flesh out what the Bible is saying. The divide between you and them is 1-2 ancient languages and 2,000 years of culture. The distance between them was a century or so.

MatthewG · Dec 28, 2024

My thoughts are this, while going back may or may not be helpful. The early church Fathers are just human beings like all the rest of us today. I don’t know if they are more insightful than anyone else could be today.

Understanding Hebrew and Greek is something for people to do, as far as their thought processes. While those processes to be known can be helpful, it doesn’t make them anymore holy or better or more insightful than anyone else who goes to God and reads the Bible to have some of their questions answered for themselves. I believe history pertained to the outskirts and surroundings of the Bible can be quite significantly helpful but those are just my thoughts on it.

People hold up others on a personal pedestal sometimes as though they are god sometimes I think too. People have insights and it can be helpful but people are people and that is my overall thoughts on why I barely go and see what those people say.

During a Bible study I might try to gather thoughts on what’s being said but just cause a standpoint is taken doesn’t make the person right, when assessing and addressing certain subjects.

Windmill Charge · Dec 30, 2024

MatthewG said:
Why would you put trust in the "Early Fathers?"

As others here have said or implied, why trust any theologian or Christian minister, all I need is the bible!

It is not so much trust as seeing what they said at their time about theology, both for the church fathers, old and modern theologians and ministers.
What one is trying g not to do is reinvent the wheel.
Many very clever and intelligent people have studied and written about every issue, question and doubt we have.
They have come up with answers that we can study to help our understanding of Christianity, the Bible and Jesus.
It almost like we go to the supermarket to buy foods, very few of us go out to a garden to dig up potatoes or onto into the fields to hunt duck, deer etc yet some Christians act as if this is the only way to be a Christian is to work out ones own theology, reinventing the wheel, often buckled and wonky.

Wick Stick · Dec 30, 2024

Windmill Charge said:
As others here have said or implied, why trust any theologian or Christian minister, all I need is the bible!

You need quite a bit of help to understand the Bible. You at the very least need a translator, unless you speak those languages. You probably need some help choosing a translation.

And... you don't have some pastor or friend to help teach you what it's talking about? That doesn't seem like a plus.

Windmill Charge · Dec 30, 2024

Wick Stick said:
You need quite a bit of help to understand the Bible. You at the very least need a translator, unless you speak those languages. You probably need some help choosing a translation.

And... you don't have some pastor or friend to help teach you what it's talking about? That doesn't seem like a plus.

Do read all I wrote.

Wick Stick · Dec 30, 2024

MatthewG said:
Why would you put trust in the "Early Fathers?"

Do they dictate the life of the spiritual? Could an Early Father ever be wrong about something? I get people study and go to college and everything concerning these things, but does trusting in the "Early Fathers" really make a difference in someones life who actively seeks for the Father in heaven, and live by the spirit of Christ?

I suppose it's just a matter of WHO you want to trust. You could trust your local pastor, a friend, your parents. You could believe archaeologists, historians, or anthropologists.

Ultimately, Christ is the cornerstone, and the apostles are the foundation. But let's not pretend that there hasn't been anything built there since then. The Early Fathers are just Christians who lived long ago. I treat them like I would any other commentary or leader, perhaps giving them a little extra weight where they personally knew an apostle.

MatthewG · Dec 30, 2024

Windmill Charge said:
As others here have said or implied, why trust any theologian or Christian minister, all I need is the bible!

It is not so much trust as seeing what they said at their time about theology, both for the church fathers, old and modern theologians and ministers.
What one is trying g not to do is reinvent the wheel.
Many very clever and intelligent people have studied and written about every issue, question and doubt we have.
They have come up with answers that we can study to help our understanding of Christianity, the Bible and Jesus.
It almost like we go to the supermarket to buy foods, very few of us go out to a garden to dig up potatoes or onto into the fields to hunt duck, deer etc yet some Christians act as if this is the only way to be a Christian is to work out ones own theology, reinventing the wheel, often buckled and wonky.

Hello Windmill,

I like what Paul stated to the people in Thessalonica,

1 Thessalonians 5:21 but test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good.

Perhaps there is noting wrong with see what people have stated. However what is good for people to do is to test everything that is said by and through the use of the bible itself. That is the most important thing, with conjunction of the Holy Spirit leading us, to what is the truth.

Jesus spoke this to his living and breathing apostles;

The Work of the Holy Spirit
John 16

5“But now I am going away to the one who sent me, and not one of you is asking where I am going. 6Instead, you grieve because of what I’ve told you. 7But in fact, it is best for you that I go away, because if I don’t, the Advocatea won’t come. If I do go away, then I will send him to you. 8And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment. 9The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me. 10Righteousness is available because I go to the Father, and you will see me no more. 11 Judgment will come because the ruler of this world has already been judged.

12“There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can’t bear it now. 13When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future. 14He will bring me glory by telling you whatever he receives from me. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine; this is why I said, ‘The Spirit will tell you whatever he receives from me.’

I believe that while we tend to go on our flesh, there is another aspect to the reality in which we live and that concern the Holy Spirit/Spirit of Christ which is placed in the hearts of those whom are believers. And that is something to think about.

Paul wrote to the people in Corinthians in his Second letter,

2 Corinthians 1:22

and he has identified us as his own by placing the Holy Spirit in our hearts as the first installment that guarantees everything he has promised us.

And also to the people whom lived in Rome, founded in Chapter 5,

1 Therefore, since we have been made right in God’s sight by faith, we have peace[a] with God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us. 2 Because of our faith, Christ has brought us into this place of undeserved privilege where we now stand, and we confidently and joyfully look forward to sharing God’s glory.

3 We can rejoice, too, when we run into problems and trials, for we know that they help us develop endurance. 4 And endurance develops strength of character, and character strengthens our confident hope of salvation. 5 And this hope will not lead to disappointment. For we know how dearly God loves us, because he has given us the Holy Spirit to fill our hearts with his love.

I believe that its good to test all things by the spirit whether it may true or not true. There are people whom are dogmatic in their stances of tradition and traditions as example are not always right. I believe something that always remains as a constant trust, is for people to love God, and love others as themselves by and through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, towards any person no matter where they may be at in their life, for people to let go of grudges, and just simply also let people be. It is after all their own choice, and the only encouragement that can truly be given, is to look into the bible, and see what can be gleaned from there, in again conjunction with the holy spirit.

MatthewG · Dec 30, 2024

Wick Stick said:
You need quite a bit of help to understand the Bible. You at the very least need a translator, unless you speak those languages. You probably need some help choosing a translation.

And... you don't have some pastor or friend to help teach you what it's talking about? That doesn't seem like a plus.

Hello @Wick Stick,

There dictionaries for that, one I would give out is Vines Dictionary of Greek and Hebrew Words.

Wick Stick said:
I suppose it's just a matter of WHO you want to trust. You could trust your local pastor, a friend, your parents. You could believe archaeologists, historians, or anthropologists.

Ultimately, Christ is the cornerstone, and the apostles are the foundation. But let's not pretend that there hasn't been anything built there since then. The Early Fathers are just Christians who lived long ago. I treat them like I would any other commentary or leader, perhaps giving them a little extra weight where they personally knew an apostle.

Don't know who knew an apostle, either way, all the apostles are dead. The ones whom had seen Christ Jesus rise again. I see your point, either way, I don't believe is a wrong to go and check them out compared to what I previously may have stated. Its totally up to the person, and as I shared in the previous post to Windmill. It's not wrong to want to educate off what others may have said, but still the Bible is something useful, and can help us learn what truths that God wants people to know. Just as another example it's similar to how many people believe that when John wrote to the 7 churches about things which were to come soon to pass, yet... for whatever reason... people still believe those things have yet to happen. Ive spoken with some say there is a double prophecy being spoken of here, etc... people should test things out of themselves, and hold on to what is good in the end by and through the conjunction of the holy spirit, in my opinion.

ScottA · Dec 30, 2024

Marymog said:
Why?

Because they lived closest to the time of Christ/Apostles and some were students of the Apostles.

Why trust Protestant Reformers if they teach different than the early fathers?

PS: I consider the "early fathers" as the Apostolic Fathers or fathers that lived close to their lifetime.

Mary, how is it that you have not factored in that Jesus found "somewhat against" 5 out of the 7 early churches in Revelation; that Peter warned of false teachers entering into the church spreading destructive doctrines; and Paul foretold the believing of a "lie" that would without a doubt cause "strong delusion" and "great apostacy?"

Lambano · Dec 30, 2024