Why The Seventy Weeks Are 490 Days - To Be Interpreted As Years

[Phoneman777]

Greece still exists today.

The little horn was prophetic. It is talking about now and the near future.

2300 years was invented by the SDA and stated to be 1844.

The Greek Empire is loooooooong gone.

BTW, the 2,300 Days interpretation that I preach was held by esteemed men of various Christian backgrounds looooooooong before there ever was a Seventh-day Adventist, so please stop spreading falsehoods. And you should stop downing SDAs because YOU YOURSELF owe your belief that Christ is soon to come to them and us SDAs - we we're preaching that looooooooong before the rest of the Christian world abandoned their "post-millennial Second Coming" idea and jumped on OUR bandwagon.

 

[Phoneman777]

So you're saying they had access to the promised land from Egypt.

Why do I bother discussing truth with someone so confused he thinks the Greek Empire is still around?

 

[CoreIssue]

The Greek Empire is loooooooong gone.

BTW, the 2,300 Days interpretation that I preach was held by esteemed men of various Christian backgrounds looooooooong before there ever was a Seventh-day Adventist, so please stop spreading falsehoods. And you should stop downing SDAs because YOU YOURSELF owe your belief that Christ is soon to come to them and us SDAs - we we're preaching that looooooooong before the rest of the Christian world abandoned their "post-millennial Second Coming" idea and jumped on OUR bandwagon.

Better check SDA believes about the earth becoming empty.

I've already posted documents about the pre-tribulation rapture believed in the 300s A.D.

 

[CoreIssue]

Why do I bother discussing truth with someone so confused he thinks the Greek Empire is still around?

I never said the Greek empire was still around.

The prophecy is not dependent on being an empire.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If this were true, than Daniel would have used the normal CONCISE Feminine Gender text which is used in all other Scriptural citations. I.e., 70 "sevens" = 490. But he didn't. Instead we find the ONLY instance in all Scripture where Daniel specifically used the INCONCISE MASCULINE GENDER TEXT for this 9th Chapter. Thus 70 [sevens] ≠ 490 .

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[1]

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[2]


[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217
[2] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 218​

You know, the angel stated that these prophecies are not to be opened until approximately 1948. Now if people can't follow instructions, then the results will be less than accurate. And if you believe the liars, then your understanding will be accordingly.

Have you considered obeying the angel to arrive at the TRUTH, or are you content with the lies??


Bobby Jo

Walvoord claims that Daniel 9's 70 weeks prophecies was 490 YEARS - 173,800 days. Not sure what you are going on about. What do you say happened to signify the end of this prophecy? And how do you come to figure 1948.

Daniel is filled with visions and prophecies, but only Daniel 12 was kept for the time of the end. If you think that all the prophecies in the book could not be understood before now, and not during the time of Jesus, what is the beginning of the 2300 day prophecy that you say came to 1948. I'm not saying there isn't one, because I believe there is, but not the 2300 day prophecy of chapter 8, nor the 70 weeks prophecy of chapter 9. Even the Maggi knew when Christ would be born through prophecies. So your reasoning that no prophecy could be understood before the end of time is faulty. If that is the case how do you know that 1948 is the fulfillment of a prophecy unless you believe this is the end times? How do you know that?

Daniel 9 wasn't hard to understand, and Jesus even rebukes the Jews for not figuring it out that this prophecy was being fulfilled in their presence. They had a beginning point from which to figure, and an ending point, and the fulfillment came on Palm Sunday right on time.

41 When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes. 43 For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, 44 and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation.”

 

[Phoneman777]

Better check SDA believes about the earth becoming empty.

I've already posted documents about the pre-tribulation rapture believed in the 300s A.D.

you've posted nothing but fake news. The pre trib rapture idea was unknown until the 1500s

 

[Phoneman777]

I never said the Greek empire was still around.

The prophecy is not dependent on being an empire.

Good, then we agree that Greece fell, followed by Rome and when Rome fell, the Ten Barbarian horns arose, and among them the "little horn" papacy, right?

 

[CoreIssue]

Good, then we agree that Greece fell, followed by Rome and when Rome fell, the Ten Barbarian horns arose, and among them the "little horn" papacy, right?

Greece Greece still exist today today.

The prophecy of the AC does not require it to be an empire.

In fact the statue of Daniel is composed of multiple empires they came and went. Same with a piece of Daniel. And yet revelation it shows the beast the harlot rides on is a composition of almost past empires.

You are totally devoted to the prophecies of Ellen G White.

 

[CoreIssue]

you've posted nothing but fake news. The pre trib rapture idea was unknown until the 1500s

Read this.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Walvoord claims that Daniel 9's 70 weeks prophecies was 490 YEARS

AGREED! -- Walvoord wrote the VERY BEST book on Daniel's prophecies BECAUSE HE SHARED THE OPINIONS OF THE SCHOLARS! But in the end, Walvoord IGNORED HIS SCHOLARS and followed the conventional "wisdom" (and I use that term loosely) of the commentators. If you want the TRUTH, -- FOLLOW THE SCHOLARS. If you want to be lied to, follow the commentators, -- including Walvoord himself.​

... how do you come to figure 1948.

It's not 1948 precisely. The angel simply says that the prophecies are "shut up and sealed until the TIME OF THE END", -- which is approximate to 1948.
And Young offers an additional perspective:

“[Per Young] This phrase has reference to the issuance of the word, not from a Persian ruler but from God. Young goes on to point out that the expression the commandment, which he insists is better translated “a word” (Heb. Dābār; cf. 2Ch 30:5) is also found is Daniel 9:23 for a word from God.”[1]

[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 224
​

... and given the guidance in 9:2 regarding perceiving "in the BOOKS", Daniel did not use the simple "shama" typical of reading the Book of Jeremiah, but rather the MUCH MORE SUBSTANTIAL "biyn" (see 1 Kings 3, what Solomon asked for, versus what GOD gave him). And so given the premise offered by J.R. Church in his book "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms", we can FIND the "going forth of the word" as GIVEN BY GOD HIMSELF, exactly as Young observed, but couldn't solve.​

... only Daniel 12 was kept for the time of the end.

Yeah, you're right. That's why Montgomery says there is NO historical fulfillment for Daniel 9, and the Abbingdon says there is a "legion" of interpretations for Daniel 9. Yep, there is such clarity according to the commentators, -- NOT!

​

... what is the beginning of the 2300 day prophecy ...

Perhaps there are OTHER aspects which lead to the 2,300 that should be evaluated FIRST. And things ARE NOT as you might suppose. Certainly there is a sequence of World Empires which must be transcended, but the target prophecy is for the "end times". Maybe you could start by answering who the Ram's two horns represent, and as please be aware that although both Julius Caesar Octavian & Marcus Antony had a co-rulership from 46-31BC, Cyrus NEVER had a co-ruler. And PLEASE don't insult me with a contrived "history" or FALSE theories about "Darius the Mede".​

... the Maggi knew when Christ would be born through prophecies. ...

A does not necessarily equal B. To be specific, Daniel 9 has NOTHING TO DO with Jesus:

Lev. 4:3 If the priest that is anointed H4899 do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.​

The word "mâshîyach" is a term used for ANY King or Priest who is anointed with oil. The commentators leave 37 instances uncapitalized, and then CAPITALIZE two instances where they contrive a FALSE narrative. -- Consider the "seven and sixty-two" as though we are presented with a sum value of SIXTY-NINE. Newton observed that it does VIOLENCE TO SCRIPTURE, and that if GOD had intended to say SIXTY-NINE, HE would have said SIXTY-NINE. So the RSV is correct that there is an "anointed" king after the seven, and a second "anointed" king after the sixty-two.​

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing ... ​

... Daniel 9 wasn't hard to understand, and Jesus even rebukes the Jews for not figuring it out ...

Matt. 24 is not NOT an ancient fulfillment and associated "rebuke". It's a future warning with a modern fulfillment, which is yet to be fulfilled.
​

But if you like the lies of the commentators, DON'T -- whatever you do, DON'T read what the Scholars and Historians say. Because they resoundingly refute their lies based upon the LITERAL Scripture and UNFULFILLED Ancient History, -- and I would propose FULFILLED Modern History. -- Perhaps you should read the Psalms in context! :)


Bobby Jo

 

[CoreIssue]

When is the rapture

More ancient teachers of pre-tribulation

The Pretribulation Rapture Has Been Taught Throughout Christian History

 

[Phoneman777]

Greece Greece still exist today today.

The prophecy of the AC does not require it to be an empire.

In fact the statue of Daniel is composed of multiple empires they came and went. Same with a piece of Daniel. And yet revelation it shows the beast the harlot rides on is a composition of almost past empires.

You are totally devoted to the prophecies of Ellen G White.

CI, of course the Antichrist is a kingdom. On so many levels.

 

[CoreIssue]

CI, of course the Antichrist is a kingdom. On so many levels.

Nope

 

[Helen]

CI, of course the Antichrist is a kingdom. On so many levels.

A kingdom and not a system?
I believe they are all systems ( anti-christ, false prophet ,Beast, ).... But, I've been wrong a time or two.

 

[CoreIssue]

A kingdom and not a system?
I believe they are all systems ( anti-christ, false prophet ,Beast, ).... But, I've been wrong a time or two.

The Bible is quite clear the AC and false prophet are men. The Dragon is Satan.

 

[Bobby Jo]

A kingdom and not a system?
I believe they are all systems ( anti-christ, false prophet ,Beast, ).... But, I've been wrong a time or two.

"the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; 10 they are also seven kings" -- that is to say Kingdoms, -- kind of like the Babylonian, Medo/Persian, Grecian, Roman, and the "divided" U.K./U.S., Russia, & China. What do you know, I think that sums to SEVEN.

"11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven" -- that is to say that the eighth is a PAPER Kingdom, -- kind of like the United Nations, which has NO Geography, NO Populous, NO Army, etc.

If we only had five blind guys without the elephant. I'm sure they could have figured THIS ONE out.


But who cares what Scripture says, and what History fulfills. We're tickling each others ears and THAT's what's important to remember with the majority of posters in this forum.


Bobby Jo

 

[1stCenturyLady]

AGREED! -- Walvoord wrote the VERY BEST book on Daniel's prophecies BECAUSE HE SHARED THE OPINIONS OF THE SCHOLARS! But in the end, Walvoord IGNORED HIS SCHOLARS and followed the conventional "wisdom" (and I use that term loosely) of the commentators. If you want the TRUTH, -- FOLLOW THE SCHOLARS. If you want to be lied to, follow the commentators, -- including Walvoord himself.

This may take awhile friend, to answer. I'm starting out in sections, but it will be good to hear what you have to say on this subject.

We have history books that tell us the timing of the cesars and kings, and we have the date of the beginning of the timing of the prophecy, so just add 173,880 days and what do you have? And note, this vision is TO BE UNDERSTOOD AT THE TIME.

23 At the beginning of your supplications the command was issued, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed; so give heed to the message and gain understanding of the vision. 24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing.

One week remaining.

I find it interesting that even though the city and temple are destroyed in 70 AD, the numbers are not included in this prophecy. The last week of the prophecy is sometime after 70 AD and concerns the nation of Israel for 7 years. I'm not going to go into all that.

I'll finish later. Going back to bed for a while. :) I hope you will be including what your interpretation of the visions are, instead of just poking fun at those who take scholars with a grain of sand. ;)

 

[Phoneman777]

A kingdom and not a system?
I believe they are all systems ( anti-christ, false prophet ,Beast, ).... But, I've been wrong a time or two.

Hey BG! Yes, a kingdom is a type of system, and in the case of the Antichrist, it's religio-political". There's only one place where the AC is called "man", while in so many other instances it's a "beast", or a "horn" or a "woman riding a beast", etc., which the Bible clearly says is a kingdom (system). But CI want's to throw out all that just because Paul calls it a "man" and "son" in 2 Thess, even though this same Paul refers to the entire body of church membership from the time Jesus left until He returns as the "man of God".

 

[Bobby Jo]

... this vision is TO BE UNDERSTOOD AT THE TIME. ...

Stop right there.

Dan. 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.​

Now I agree that at the time of his writing the text, Daniel PERCEIVED IN THE BOOKS the "going forth of the word to establish and rebuild Jerusalem" BECAUSE HE READ IT IN THE BOOK OF PSALMS. As such he was able to discipher that they were 70 "years" of which the seventieth year was a "week" of years. Thus he used the INCONCISE Masculine Gender Text which was vague enough for him to accurately depict the SEVENTY PERIODS OF TIME.


And you still insist on citing that the last pair of shoes you bought cost "seven and sixty-two dollars" plus tax. If that's what you told your husband, he probably thought you had been drinking, because there is NO PRECEDENT in Scripture or any Society which uses numbers in that fashion. Certainly a cup and a quarter, a mile and a half, four score and ten, -- are all legitimate. But Newton said it does VIOLENCE to Scripture to construct the translation in that fashion. -- The "translators" had a "Jesus" agenda, so they contorted the sentence to achieve their agenda. And they're liars.


But if you really like the lies you've been told then keep them, and don't waste anymore of our time. Otherwise if you're interested in the TRUTH, then I'd be MORE than happy to give you the evidence of both Scripture and History so that you can come to YOUR OWN (not the commentator's) conclusion! :)


Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

Hey BG! Yes, a kingdom is a type of system, and in the case of the Antichrist, it's religio-political". There's only one place where the AC is called "man", while in so many other instances it's a "beast", or a "horn" or a "woman riding a beast", etc., which the Bible clearly says is a kingdom (system). But CI want's to throw out all that just because Paul calls it a "man" and "son" in 2 Thess, even though this same Paul refers to the entire body of church membership from the time Jesus left until He returns as the "man of God".

To all,

If what "Phoneman" asserts is true, then he should most certainly be able to "calculate the number of his name" (Rev. 13:18). -- I often assert that if a person can't solve the simple things, then they most certainly won't be able to solve the complex things.


Bobby Jo