Why The Seventy Weeks Are 490 Days - To Be Interpreted As Years

[Helen]

Hey BG! Yes, a kingdom is a type of system, and in the case of the Antichrist, it's religio-political". There's only one place where the AC is called "man", while in so many other instances it's a "beast", or a "horn" or a "woman riding a beast", etc., which the Bible clearly says is a kingdom (system). But CI want's to throw out all that just because Paul calls it a "man" and "son" in 2 Thess, even though this same Paul refers to the entire body of church membership from the time Jesus left until He returns as the "man of God".

Thanks...Agree.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Otherwise if you're interested in the TRUTH, then I'd be MORE than happy to give you the evidence of both Scripture and History so that you can come to YOUR OWN (not the commentator's) conclusion!

Of course, I would love to hear your theory. How do you know if your theory is true or not?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Maybe you could start by answering who the Ram's two horns represent, and as please be aware that although both Julius Caesar Octavian & Marcus Antony had a co-rulership from 46-31BC, Cyrus NEVER had a co-ruler. And PLEASE don't insult me with a contrived "history" or FALSE theories about "Darius the Mede".

The fall of Babylon/Belshazzar came when it was conquered by the Medes and Persians, (the Medes always appearing as the shorter or weaker of the two nations in visions), by Darius the Mede, under the Persian king, Cyrus the Great. By the time Alexander the Great conquered Persia, Darius III was in power and fled twice and finally killed by one of his own men. Since many kings were in power between the fall of Babylon and Alexander the Great, I only see the two horns as a smaller nation (Medes) ruled by a larger nation (Persia).

In another vision the Medo-Persian kingdom is also the bear with one side higher than the other, holding three ribs in its mouth. Those three ribs represent, Lydia, Babylon and Egypt. What is funny is just because it is a bear, many "scholars" believe it is referring to Russia.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Of course, I would love to hear your theory. How do you know if your theory is true or not?

Hi 1stCL,

I like pudding, because the proof is in the pudding.

Speaking of "pudding", have you tasted the Psalms yet? Taste the Book 19 (prophetic to the Jews for the 1900's), Chapter 48 (for the year, = 1948) and see if the flavor matches the International Recognition of the State of Israel; or how about Book 19, Chapter 44 ( =1944) and see if that flavor matches the Holocaust (please note the multiple of verses 11 & 22, which may have some numerical significance -- like 9/11 ...).

So while you're still opened to the Book of Psalms, -- can you recite a FULL Bible Chapter? I would propose that I could stop any person on the street (preferably 50 or older) and with a few prompt get them to recite a FULL BIBLE CHAPTER:

The Lord is my shepherd -- I shall not want
He leadeth me -- besides still waters
He -- restoreth my soul ...
​

Agreed? :)

Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... I only see the two horns as a smaller nation (Medes) ruled by a larger nation (Persia). ...

Dan. 8:20 As for the ram which you saw with the two horns, these are the kings of Media and Persia.
​

Cyrus was the SINGULAR king of Medo/Persia. If you have another "king" for the Medes, I'd be more than entertained to hear how your commentators work their lies. :)

... In another vision the Medo-Persian kingdom is also the bear with one side higher than the other, holding three ribs in its mouth. Those three ribs represent, Lydia, Babylon and Egypt.

"Probably the best is that it refers to Media, Persia, and Babylon as representing the three major components of the Medo-B abylonian Empire. Jerome offered this suggestion."​

John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 156​

So if what you described is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, then why does the "BEST" solution contradict YOUR VERSION?!? Could it be that ALL ancient "fulfillments" are flawed, and it's simply a matter of selecting the BEST LIE?

... What is funny is just because it is a bear, many "scholars" believe it is referring to Russia. ...

What is actually "funny" is that Dan. 2:45 specifically separates the inferred inherent connection between the Legs of IRON with the Feet of IRON and CLAY by inserting the Bronze between them to break the purported 4a/4b association:

Dan. 2:45 just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. ... = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE World Empires​

And of course both Scripture and History agree that there is an Empire of CLAY which is divided between THREE SUPERPOWERS and a UNITED NATIONS:

Daniel 2:41 And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom​

You know my first grade teacher insisted that FIVE ≠ FOUR (i.e., Dan. 2 vs. Dan. 7). I thought I could provide a convincing argument that Five DID equal Four, but she wouldn't hear of it.



1stCL, if you prefer the lying commentators over Scripture and History, then I encourage you to please be content with your choice. But before you conclude any discussion, please consider :

• The first Superpower is the U.K./U.S. (lion/eagle).
  
• The next Superpower is Russia (the bear) which has only committed THREE International Violations, which included Hungary - 1956 (the November 4 invasion), Berlin Wall - 1961 (violation of the Yalta Accord), and Czechoslovakia - 1968 (August 20 invasion). And come to think of it, all three ribs had been gnawed on for a number of years and then were "dropped" to free the teeth of the bear for it's still future attack on Israel.
  
• The last Superpower is China -- where in Daniel's day there were plenty of circularly marked cats brought up from Africa, but no vertically marked cats were exhibited yet from the east. And so Daniel could only use the best depiction of the "Leopard", and China is the TIGER. But interestingly, where the U.S. has THREE HEADS, China has FOUR HEADS:

• State Administrative Council (civilian government)
• People’s Revolutionary Military Council (top army command)
• Supreme People’s Court (the judicial branch)
• Supreme Officer of Prosecution (law enforcement).[1]

And where Mao's Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution put China back ten years, in 1975 Premier Chour En-Lai proposed the FOUR MODERNIZATIONS (FOUR WINGS) which included:​

• Agriculture
• Industry
• Science & Technology
• National Defense

So now China aspires to compete on the global market, and I suspect over half your household electronics and dry goods may have been made in China.

But that's not the end, there's one more beast -- the Dreadful Beast with Ten Horns, which is the United Nations.


[1] Willy Draus, Economic Development and Social Change in the People’s Republic of China, Springer-Verlag, N.Y., NY, 1982, p. 28​

Bobby Jo

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Cyrus was the SINGULAR king of Medo/Persia. If you have another "king" for the Medes, I'd be more than entertained to hear how your commentators work their lies.

Cyrus was King over Medo-Persia, and Darius the Mede was under him. But it was Darius the Mede that headed the raid against Babylon. Cyrus made Darius, king of the Chaldeans.

So where is your interpretation of the 2300 day prophecy, and the 70 weeks prophecy? I've already given my interpretation, and I went against commentators and used actual history. You are the one who quotes commentators. LOL These are end times so the books are open for anyone who has the Spirit.

So far using the numbers of the Psalms seems pretty lame. God didn't add the numbers, man did.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

• The first Superpower is the U.K./U.S. (lion/eagle).
  
• The next Superpower is Russia (the bear) which has only committed THREE International Violations, which included Hungary - 1956 (the November 4 invasion), Berlin Wall - 1961 (violation of the Yalta Accord), and Czechoslovakia - 1968 (August 20 invasion). And come to think of it, all three ribs had been gnawed on for a number of years and then were "dropped" to free the teeth of the bear for it's still future attack on Israel.
  
• The last Superpower is China -- where in Daniel's day there were plenty of circularly marked cats brought up from Africa, but no vertically marked cats were exhibited yet from the east. And so Daniel could only use the best depiction of the "Leopard", and China is the TIGER. But interestingly, where the U.S. has THREE HEADS, China has FOUR HEADS:

• State Administrative Council (civilian government)
• People’s Revolutionary Military Council (top army command)
• Supreme People’s Court (the judicial branch)
• Supreme Officer of Prosecution (law enforcement).[1]

And where Mao's Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution put China back ten years, in 1975 Premier Chour En-Lai proposed the FOUR MODERNIZATIONS (FOUR WINGS) which included:

• Agriculture
• Industry
• Science & Technology
• National Defense

You do know we are talking about the beasts of Daniel, and not Revelation don't you? LOL In Revelation, the bear represents Russia, but not in Daniel.

In Daniel, Medo-Persia is represented in 3 different visions as:

the chest of silver
the bear with one side higher than the other, with 3 ribs
the ram with two horns, one bigger than the other.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The Greek Empire is loooooooong gone.

BTW, the 2,300 Days interpretation that I preach was held by esteemed men of various Christian backgrounds looooooooong before there ever was a Seventh-day Adventist, so please stop spreading falsehoods. And you should stop downing SDAs because YOU YOURSELF owe your belief that Christ is soon to come to them and us SDAs - we we're preaching that looooooooong before the rest of the Christian world abandoned their "post-millennial Second Coming" idea and jumped on OUR bandwagon.

So did I miss it? What is the beginning and end dates to your 2300 day/year prophecy. All I've heard so far is you believe it is referring to 2300 years but nothing else? I know the SDA belief and it referring to some pope in the 1700's, and also the start date is the same for the 70 weeks prophecy, but it just didn't hold water, so I researched history and was delighted to see history confirms my 6 1/3 years theory, right down to the cleansing of the temple! At first I played around with half days, coming up with a little over 3 years, but had to toss it, as it didn't hold water either. I see you implied you are also using the start date as the same as the 70 weeks prophecy, but they have nothing to do with each other. The 2300 day prophecy (167 BC to 160 BC) has to do with the little horn out of one of the four generals after Alexander the Great of Greece died and Greece was split up 4 ways; and the 70 weeks prophecy starts with a decree from Artaxerxes to rebuild the city and the walls in 444 BC - a Medo-Persian. The start dates are hundreds of years apart!

 

[quietthinker]

And you are wrong.

Israel spent 40 years in the world knows from Egypt to the promised land.

The spies were sent out to get the lay of the land for their invasion to start. Which they did.

Remember them coming back with the grapes on a pole?

you need to get familiar with when those accounts happened again CI. It is clear from your answers you are mixing up events and all for the sake of trying to establish that the day/year principal is not valid. I'm sorry, the error is yours.

 

[quietthinker]

Greece still exists today.

The little horn was prophetic. It is talking about now and the near future.

2300 years was invented by the SDA and stated to be 1844.

I don't think you understand why and how 1844 was arrived at. It would be well worth your effort to find out.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If the period of 6 years was literal, what Sanctuary was "cleansed" at the close of it? The sanctuary was destroyed and Zerrubabel's temple had yet to be constructed. Also, the end of the "mareh" was for "the distant future" which means in order for the 2,300 days to reach the distant future, they would have to be symbolic days, or literal years.

And from what time period was the 70 Weeks cut? The only possible candidate is the 2,300 Days, which is exactly the purpose for why the 70 Weeks are presented - to clear up Daniel's confusion about the "mareh". When Gabriel begins explaining the "mareh", he IMMEDIATELY launches into the 70 Weeks as being "cut off" - obviously for anyone who isn't a Jesuit Futurist that means cut off from the 2,300.

Sorry, but your explanation has too many plot holes.

Haven't you heard of Herod's Temple, called the second temple? You know, the one in Jerusalem during the time of Jesus? The one finally destroyed in 70 A.D. but lasted from 516 BC. That is the one the Antiochus Ephiphanes IV defiled, and caused the Maccabeean revolt from 167 BC to 160 BC - a little over 6 years (2300 days to be exact). Ever hear of Hanukkah?

Read the 2300 prophecy again.

Ram - two horns - Medes and Persians
Goat - Greece
one horn - Alexander the Great - broke - he died and left the land to his 4 generals
4 horns - those 4 generals
little horn out of one of the 4 generals - Antiochus Ephiphanes IV (175 BC to 164 BC) - still Greece.

cc: @quietthinker Read Daniel 8 again. The 2300 day prophecy is about the little horn out of Greece.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I don't think you understand why and how 1844 was arrived at. It would be well worth your effort to find out.

SDA's mixed prophecies AND decrees.

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

There were four decrees, and only the last one in 444 BC by Artaxerxes contained the "wall." These 490 years, minus 1 week, was for the first coming of Christ. And from 444 BC counting 173,800 days Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a colt as KING.

SDA's mixed the Daniel 8 prophecy with the Daniel 9 prophecy. The 2300 day/24 hour days equal 6 1/3 years - 2300 days (167 BC to 160 BC) in which time after the little horn (Antiochus Epiphanes IV) of Daniel 8 defiled the temple (516 BC to 70 AD), the Maccabeean revolt restored Herod's temple, which was finally destroyed in 70 A.D. The last week of years is for the saving of National Israel (Romans 11). SDA's have it as during the time of Jesus, but the verse before it is the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Good, then we agree that Greece fell, followed by Rome and when Rome fell, the Ten Barbarian horns arose, and among them the "little horn" papacy, right?

I've lost your conversation. I just wanted to say that the little horn of Daniel 8 is NOT the papacy, right? It is out of Greece and refers to 175 BC to 164 BC.

There are two mentions of "little horns." The other little horn of Daniel 7 is the one out of Rome.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That is what some believe, but is it really so?

Let's see what the Bible says.

Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. (Dan 8:13,14)

וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֵלַ֔י עַ֚ד עֶ֣רֶב בֹּ֔קֶר אַלְפַּ֖יִם וּשְׁלֹ֣שׁ מֵאֹ֑ות וְנִצְדַּ֖ק קֹֽדֶשׁ׃ (Dan 8:14)

Literal and interlinear rendering: AND HE SAID TO ME FOR EVENINGS DAYS TWO THOUSAND AND THREE HUNDRED THEN SHALL BE CLEANSED THE SANCTUARY.

Evenings and mornings (days) = 24 hour days (just as in Genesis 1). There is absolutely no way that anyone can legitimately convert that to years.

So what do we really have? 2,300 days/360= 6.39 years = 6 years + 4 months + 21 days.

This means that the total period regarding events connected with the Abomination of Desolation -- "the transgression of desolation" -- is somewhat less than 7 years.

To project this prophecy to 2,300 years is not only bizarre, but contrary to what is actually revealed.

Yes, I agree. The key is the addition of the confirming words "evening and morning" to mean a 24 hour period. It is the same wording as in Genesis 1 meaning 24 hour periods. God didn't create the earth in 6 years, but 6 days!

 

[Enoch111]

Yes, I agree. The key is the addition of the confirming words "evening and morning" to mean a 24 hour period. It is the same wording as in Genesis 1 meaning 24 hour periods. God didn't create the earth in 6 years, but 6 days!

All this bizarre and crazy re-interpretation started when people began to label the Pope as the Antichrist. But no one is willing to say "WE WERE DEAD WRONG".

 

[Bobby Jo]

Cyrus was King over Medo-Persia, and Darius the Mede was under him. ...

False. The Medo/Persian records are complete, and there is NO record of any "Darius the Mede". Furthermore, the book of Daniel accounts this Darius as the LAST Babylonian king. But of course you won't get the TRUTH from the commentators.

You do know we are talking about the beasts of Daniel, and not Revelation don't you? LOL In Revelation, the bear represents Russia, but not in Daniel.

In Daniel, Medo-Persia is represented in 3 different visions as:

the chest of silver
the bear with one side higher than the other, with 3 ribs
the ram with two horns, one bigger than the other.

Please continue to believe the lies, and please be content, because it seems this is what you prefer. And DON'T READ THE PSALMS! :)

Bobby Jo

 

[quietthinker]

Haven't you heard of Herod's Temple, called the second temple? You know, the one in Jerusalem during the time of Jesus? The one finally destroyed in 70 A.D. but lasted from 516 BC. That is the one the Antiochus Ephiphanes IV defiled, and caused the Maccabeean revolt from 167 BC to 160 BC - a little over 6 years (2300 days to be exact). Ever hear of Hanukkah?

Read the 2300 prophecy again.

Ram - two horns - Medes and Persians
Goat - Greece
one horn - Alexander the Great - broke - he died and left the land to his 4 generals
4 horns - those 4 generals
little horn out of one of the 4 generals - Antiochus Ephiphanes IV (175 BC to 164 BC) - still Greece.

cc: @quietthinker Read Daniel 8 again. The 2300 day prophecy is about the little horn out of Greece.

You will need to point that information out me because I do not see it. So please make the effort and oblige me. thanks

 

[quietthinker]

SDA's mixed prophecies AND decrees.

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

There were four decrees, and only the last one in 444 BC by Artaxerxes contained the "wall." These 490 years, minus 1 week, was for the first coming of Christ. And from 444 BC counting 173,800 days Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a colt as KING.

SDA's mixed the Daniel 8 prophecy with the Daniel 9 prophecy. The 2300 day/24 hour days equal 6 1/3 years - 2300 days (167 BC to 160 BC) in which time after the little horn (Antiochus Epiphanes IV) of Daniel 8 defiled the temple (516 BC to 70 AD), the Maccabeean revolt restored Herod's temple, which was finally destroyed in 70 A.D. The last week of years is for the saving of National Israel (Romans 11). SDA's have it as during the time of Jesus, but the verse before it is the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

So, what was the point of the 2300 prophecy as you see its interpretation of 6 1/3 years ? I ask because Daniel 8:26 tells us the vision of the evenings and mornings pertains to the distant future. Not the future which is discernible (70 weeks) of which a detailed breakdown was given.....its import being the Messiah, his centrality and Israel's relationship to him.
Incidentally, the three wise men who visited at Jesus birth where able to calculate time of his birth from the 70 weeks prophecy. I would say that's pretty precise. It was a long trip for them, not one undertaken on mere guesswork.

Regarding the 70 weeks again. Daniel was asking about his people and it is clear from the text that Daniel could see the Babylonian captivity was coming to an end from reading Jeremiah and wants to know what now. The angel tells him 70 weeks are determined for your people. In other words, you's guys have just about tried Gods patience as a chosen nation to the limit and this (70 weeks) is it...no more Mr nice guy! so to speak.

Do you understand what I'm saying here?

 

[Bobby Jo]

... the three wise men who visited at Jesus birth where able to calculate time of his birth from the 70 weeks prophecy. ...

Funny how Scripture gives a different solution than you propose:

Matt. 2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magih from the east came to Jerusalem 2 and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”​

So much misinformation/disinformation,
Bobby Jo

 

[1stCenturyLady]

All this bizarre and crazy re-interpretation started when people began to label the Pope as the Antichrist. But no one is willing to say "WE WERE DEAD WRONG".

I think this last pope we have now may in fact be the false prophet, because that person will be religious. But the Antichrist will be a political figure, a ruler over 10 countries, some stronger than others. (Iron and clay)