There's no confusion. The Little Horn is mentioned several times in Daniel, but it is the same person within different contexts.
Why The Seventy Weeks Are 490 Days - To Be Interpreted As Years
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The last week of Daniel's prophecy will be fulfilled in the future. It is a period of 7 years and within that 7 years there is a period of 6 1/3 years (2300 days) until the sanctuary is cleansed.
Sorry, but the little horn in Daniel 8 is none other than the future Antichrist.
ALEXANDER'S KINGDOM WAS DIVIDED INTO FOUR PARTS
8 Therefore the he goat [GREECE] waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn [ALEXANDER] was broken; and for it came up four notable ones [ALEXANDER'S GENERALS] toward the four winds of heaven.
THE ANTICHRIST WILL COME OUT OF THE FORMER SELEUCID* EMPIRE [ONE OF THOSE FOUR KINGDOMS]
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
THE ANTICHRIST WILL CHALLENGE EVEN THE ANGELS
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
THE ANTICHRIST WILL ELEVATE HIMSELF ABOVE THE ARCHANGELS
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
THE ANTICHRIST WILL STOP THE DAILY TEMPLE SACRIFICES
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
*At its height, the Seleucid Empire included a large swath of the Middle East, including the Levant. The Antichrist will be a renegade Jew from this part of the world. He will claim to be God and Christ, and will stop the daily sacrifices in the future temple at Jerusalem in order to set up the Abomination of Desolation (an idol) in the Holy Place.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
They should have had you there to better instruct them. Where in the New Testament does it say that the temple they were using wasn't good enough.
After the victory, the Maccabees entered Jerusalem in triumph and ritually cleansed the Temple, reestablishing traditional Jewish worship there and installing Johnathan Apphus, Judah's youngest brother, as high priest.
The Jewish festival of Hanukkah celebrates the re-dedication of the Temple following Judah Maccabee's victory over the Seleucids. According to Rabbinic tradition, the victorious Maccabees could only find a small jug of oil that had remained uncontaminated by virtue of a seal, and although it only contained enough oil to sustain the Menorah for one day, it miraculously lasted for eight days, by which time further oil could be procured.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Well, one of them was Antiochus Epiphanes IV who did defile the temple, and after the Maccabbees revolt they did ceremonially cleanse the temple and it was used thereon until it was destroyed in 70 AD.
But I will agree that he was a foreshadow of the future Antichrist. I find it interesting that many of the characters of the Bible are paradigms of future significant people in history. Even Ahab and Jezebel! Amazing.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
As I said, it could be another paradigm, but the little horn of Daniel 8 comes out of Greece. The little horn of Daniel 7 comes out of Rome. How do you explain that?
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
You quoted Daniel 8 which pointed directly to Antiochus Ephiphanes IV.
What you quoted here about a renegade Jew - who? Maccabbees who CLEANSED the temple, and didn't sit in it as God. Antiochus, the Greek set up statues to Zeus in the temple and slaughtered a pig on the altar on his birthday, December 25. That is history, not that the Antichrist will be a renegade Jew. I hadn't heard that one, and I thought I'd heard 'em all. Where in scripture to you find that bit of information. Scripture seems to say he will be an Assyrian/Iranian - Muslim
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Only the banners in Numbers, but not what was on them. For that you have to go to Jewish literature. The study of Redemption in the Stars is awe inspiring.
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
Yep, you're right. Don't obey the angel, -- what does he know?!?
Yeah,
Bobby Jo
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
You know they say that Ignorance can be cured, but Stupidity is forever.
Bobby Jo
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Hello
Prophecy can be a difficult thing to come to grips with. We like symmetry and connectivity between prophecies. But the Daniel.9:24-27 passage contains several independent prophecies which are not linked to each other as many have suggested in this thread.
This is how I break up this passage into the respective prophecies in this passage.
People want to link all five prophecies into one prophecy, but this is not possible without distorting the message context with respect to the time that these five prophecies will occur/have occurred
For me, the above provides a satisfactory way of making sense of this passage and the prophetic events as they have/are/will occurred/occurring/occur.
To look at the events occurring in any other way only complicates what we are told in this passage. The above provides the KISS principle in understanding.
Shalom
Prophecy can be a difficult thing to come to grips with. We like symmetry and connectivity between prophecies. But the Daniel.9:24-27 passage contains several independent prophecies which are not linked to each other as many have suggested in this thread.
This is how I break up this passage into the respective prophecies in this passage.
Daniel.9:24-27
Prophecy One
24 "Seventy weeks, (i.e. 490 years), are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins.
{This is the end of the 490 years of prophecy in this verse which will then be followed by this event.}
Then I will make reconciliation for iniquity,
Bring in everlasting righteousness,
Seal up the vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
Prophecy Two
{This independent prophecy starts a little after Prophecy One above and ends with the completion of the work being carried out by Herod the Great to restore the temple’s greatness.}
25 "Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
Prophecy Three
{This independent prophecy occurs after the completion of Herod’s temple.}
26 "And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
Prophecy four
{This independent prophecy occurs around 40 years after Prophecy Three.}
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war {in heaven} desolations are determined.
{This prophecy covers a time period of around 2,000 years before its completion.
When the war ends in heaven, Satan and his fallen angels with him are thrown down to the surface of the earth and immediately imprisoned for a period of 1,000 years before the prison is unlocked a “little while” before the end of the Millennium Age.}
Prophecy Five
{This independent prophecy occurs after the Bottomless pit/prison is unlocked for the Little While Period prophecies to occur. This prophecy is one of the events that will occur during the Little While period before the end of the Millennium Age. Possibly during the last seven or so years of the Millennium Age.}
27 Then he, {either Satan or the Little Horn}, shall confirm a covenant with many for one week, {i.e. seven years};
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate/desolator."
24 "Seventy weeks, (i.e. 490 years), are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins.
{This is the end of the 490 years of prophecy in this verse which will then be followed by this event.}
Then I will make reconciliation for iniquity,
Bring in everlasting righteousness,
Seal up the vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
Prophecy Two
{This independent prophecy starts a little after Prophecy One above and ends with the completion of the work being carried out by Herod the Great to restore the temple’s greatness.}
25 "Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
Prophecy Three
{This independent prophecy occurs after the completion of Herod’s temple.}
26 "And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
Prophecy four
{This independent prophecy occurs around 40 years after Prophecy Three.}
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war {in heaven} desolations are determined.
{This prophecy covers a time period of around 2,000 years before its completion.
When the war ends in heaven, Satan and his fallen angels with him are thrown down to the surface of the earth and immediately imprisoned for a period of 1,000 years before the prison is unlocked a “little while” before the end of the Millennium Age.}
Prophecy Five
{This independent prophecy occurs after the Bottomless pit/prison is unlocked for the Little While Period prophecies to occur. This prophecy is one of the events that will occur during the Little While period before the end of the Millennium Age. Possibly during the last seven or so years of the Millennium Age.}
27 Then he, {either Satan or the Little Horn}, shall confirm a covenant with many for one week, {i.e. seven years};
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate/desolator."
People want to link all five prophecies into one prophecy, but this is not possible without distorting the message context with respect to the time that these five prophecies will occur/have occurred
For me, the above provides a satisfactory way of making sense of this passage and the prophetic events as they have/are/will occurred/occurring/occur.
To look at the events occurring in any other way only complicates what we are told in this passage. The above provides the KISS principle in understanding.
Shalom
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
He cannot be a Muslim for the simple reason that (1) he will have free access the Jewish temple and (2) he will come as "the true Messiah" of the Jews, possibly claiming that he is a descendant of David. And "the Assyrian" could simply mean that he is a Jew from Iraq (which was also a part of the Seleucid Empire). "Iraqi Jews constitute one of the world's oldest and most historically significant Jewish communities" (Wikipedia).
It is Daniel who tells us that he is a renegade Jew in Dan 11:36-38:
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
38 But in his estate shall he honour [a god] of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
The "God of gods" is none other than the Lord God Almighty, and "the God of his fathers" is none other than the God of his Hebrew ancestors. "The fathers" is a term used for the Hebrew patriarchs several times in the Bible.
But "the god of forces (fortresses)" is none other than Satan. So this Jewish man will blaspheme the true God and worship Satan. The Hebrew for "the god of fortresses" is וְלֶאֱלֹ֙הַּ֙ מָֽעֻזִּ֔ים -- ve·le·'e·loh·ah ma·'uz·zim, and Brown-Driver-Briggs says "b. of a heathen god, אֱלוֺהַּ מָעֻזִּים Daniel 11:38. But we know from Revelation 13 that this is "the dragon" (Satan).
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Antiochus Epiphanes IV erected an idol in the Jewish temple and slaughtered a pig on the altar. Do you think the Jews welcomed him? Its a paradigm.
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
Bobby Jo said:
Nope, YOU'RE the one who either CAN'T or WON'T identify the TWO KINGS OF MEDIA and PERSIA. And as I recall, YOU ALSO DIDN'T REFUTE THE FIVE GENERALS WHO RECEIVED ALEXANDER'S EMPIRE.
Furthermore, you make untold references to people and events in Daniel 11, -- but you can't get there either Scripturally or Historically.
So where I've provided information, you've CLEARLY not ignorant. Now you're STUPID, -- by choice! :)
My favorite aunt used to say: "My mind's made up, don't confuse me with the evidence". She was only teasing, but you're serious ...
Bobby Jo
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
So tell me, oh learned one, who are the kings of the Medes and Persians. I love your typo. LOL (Was one in television, movies or radio?)
Was I suppose to refute the 4 + 1 generals equaling 5 generals? I don't get your point. I guess I'm just stupid.
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