Why I Would Not Like Jesus

[MA2444]

Like changing the subject. It is not "vague" it is lying, using words to mean something the words don't mean, leading to frustration of the audience as well as the speaker. The very definition of poor and deceptive communication, not vague communication.

Sure it's vague. He has changed the subject on me before, lol. I asked him a question and he answers talking about something else and basically ignored my question. smh.

But that instance I figured it out why He did that. I had not thought of something which was more important and more pertinant than what I had asked Him. So I was merely being short sighted next to Him. So He chose to use metaphors and analogies in the scriptures, so what? It doesnt make Him a liar. It makes Him GOD. And I found that you really cant not understand somthing He said and just say, oh I see when you dont, Lol! He knows I didnt understand already! A few days later I caught on!

You may be treading on scary ground Brother by asking thee questions that you have?
Zechariah got struck dumb for it. Who are we to question God? God is no liar. We just dont have complete understanding yet.

 

[Wrangler]

It's all about faith in the Lord Jesus.

Not this thread.

 

[Wrangler]

It doesnt make Him a liar.

I've addressed elsewhere in this thread the distinction between someone who lied from being a liar. What do you call someone who says something other than "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Talking about inapplicable bread, sleeping, temples is straight up deceptive! Everyone use the definite article "the" in conjunction with temple to refer to Solomon's temple. Knowing your audience, there can be no other conclusion than the choice of words were meant to deceive. In the common vernacular, this is called a lie.

 

[Wrangler]

Who are we to question God? God is no liar.

Ever read 1 Kings 22:20-23?

We just dont have complete understanding yet.

Circular Reasoning, aka, the sacred cow.

 

[Wrangler]

He didn’t speak about “bread”.....who is not getting it?

LOL. Why are you using quotes? To pretend the lie is not a lie. Your lie (to yourself) is to deny Jesus most certainly did speak about bread.

He also repeatedly spoke about sleep, an action by the living. I know there is a deep seated need to dismiss these lies as metaphors. We can reject that anyone ever lies about anything; they just "used misunderstood metaphors," right? If not, why not?

You are the one who is not getting it. This thread is an unusually subjective thread, what I don't like. You want to change the basis of what I don't like to be misunderstanding on my part. If only I understood that when he said bread, he did not mean "bread," then I'd like it. False.

I don't think you've answered a number of questions I've asked you (like rejection criteria). That's unusual for you.

 

[Wrangler]

You may be treading on scary ground Brother by asking thee questions that you have?

Did I ask questions in the OP? I'm just stating my preference. Why is that scary ground?

 

[MA2444]

I've addressed elsewhere in this thread the distinction between someone who lied from being a liar. What do you call someone who says something other than "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Code talkers? Like the Navajo code talkers?

Talking about inapplicable bread, sleeping, temples is straight up deceptive! Everyone use the definite article "the" in conjunction with temple to refer to Solomon's temple. Knowing your audience, there can be no other conclusion than the choice of words were meant to deceive. In the common vernacular, this is called a lie.

In that specific instance I would have to say, He used analogies and metaphors with them so that they could better understand Him. Things that they are able to relate to. This might let some glean a little bit of what He s saying. He speaks about things that are so far above us that there is no way that we can comprehend it all.

Humans are in the remedial classroom here. Very dense slow learners. Myself included!
Because He chose to use words and grammer types to teach us with doesnt ever mean He is lying. It is merely something that we can not understand yet. It will all make sense once we cross over Brother.

Is it Twilight Zone? You bet it is, for now.

 

[Wrangler]

He used Solomon’s temple to

There you go again, falling back to deconstruction. The WHY of the matter is not the issue. The WHAT of the matter is. Deception.

Words have meaning and ideas have consequences. Using words his audience takes to refer to Solomon’s temple - and knowing his audience takes it that way - is not the way to communicate about another "temple." See? You cannot even use the word temple without recognizing it is a double deceit. It's not even a temple he is referring to when using the term "the temple," is it?

Referring to animate objects, a sleeping girl but meaning it is an inanimate object, a lifeless corpse; then referring to Solomons temple, an inanimate object but meaning an animate object and doing the same thing with bread is not the sort of communication I like. It's only "communication" in quotes the same way any lie is, a kind of not good communication.

 

[Wrangler]

What was the end result Wrangler?

Are you saying the ends justify the means?

 

[Wrangler]

If the Jesus whom God sent is not good enough for you.....then who has to change their attitude in what you require of him?

Odd for you to ask this question after asking who said I have to like it.

Also, my preference is not my attitude. I am allowed to like certain things and not like other things. There is no requirement change component.

 

[MA2444]

Ever read 1 Kings 22:20-23?

I just read it again for you. It doesnt say that God lied. It said He allowed a lying spirit to say some things through His prophets. You seem sort of like you want pi the Lord down as some sort of liar. (Because you dont understand yet). Could that be considered to be murmuring? (I'm asking). Because scripture tells us and shows us that God doesnt like murmurers in the congregation.

Was it God that tore up Job's life? God had planted a crop and was doing something here when vandals crept in and vanalised His crop (people), so since God wants to save the crop, He may have tweaked the rules a little, but He is God and has that right. It doesnt make Him guilty of anything! He is on a rescue mission for You. And me and us.

 

[Wrangler]

Code talkers? Like the Navajo code talkers?

That's pretty funny right there! Code talkers don't get convicted of perjury.

In that specific instance I would have to say, He used analogies and metaphors with them so that they could better understand Him.

<sigh> Analogies and metaphors don't work when you know your audience is taking it literally AND you keep double down on the deception.

I use analogies and metaphors all the time in referencing pop culture, like Star War lines, "we need a bigger boat," etc. Yet, when I realize my audience is not tracking, I talk straight. Continuing to use them would not result in them "understanding better." And you are smart enough to realize this is true - for anyone.

 

[MA2444]

Did I ask questions in the OP? I'm just stating my preference. Why is that scary ground?

It feels like scary ground or thin ice to Me. All through the OT you can see examples of how God does not like murmuring. The Lord had the Hebrews out in the desert and was feeding them manna, and the people started complaining that they had no meat. So I think that was the time that God sent Doves to them to eat. Some kind of birds and He wouldnt give them anything else until they got sick of eating meat and wished they had kept their mouth shut!

This is the God that tells the end from the beginning. So those "Christians of Ancient Ages" are giving us in these times a warning. And that strikes me as a bad way to sppoach God with a bunch of questions like are you a Liar? (Duck!) I wouldnt do it. Let God be true and every man a liar.

 

[Wrangler]

I just read it again for you. It doesnt say that God lied. It said He allowed a lying spirit to say some things through His prophets.

What's the difference? I don't lie. I just have my attorney, my agent do it on my behalf and at my command. What kind of sophistry is that?

Another sacred cow, for sure. As if Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I am Yahweh who does all these things does not include the disaster that comes from lying?!

Just to set the scene of 1 Kings 22, there were 400 prophets who had supernatural communications. They know divine messengers act and speak on God's authority. They aren't supposed to trust an agent of God? The answer is no. Judgment was upon them. That is the Judgment of God and deception is how he achieved his will in this case, no?

You seem sort of like you want pi the Lord down as some sort of liar.

You seem sort of like denying it even when it is presented to you 400 times over.

NOTE: 1 Kings 22 does not indicate God was outraged that his messenger proposed lying would achieve the desired end. Indeed, God commanded him to do so.

Is having someone else lie 400 times a pattern contrary to "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?"

 

[Wrangler]

It feels like scary ground or thin ice to Me.

All killing of sacred cows do feel like being on thin ice.

And I think being afraid is understandable. The truth often scares people - as it should. It seems to me that Christiandom has become overly spiritualized. As innocent as doves, yes. But not as wise as serpents - who infamously speak with a forked tongue, right? (Isn't that where the expression comes from, serpents who literally have a forked tongue? See what I did there? I used a metaphor. )

 

[MA2444]

That's pretty funny right there! Code talkers don't get convicted of perjury.

I knew you'd like that, lol. Could be true in a metaphorically kind of way.

<sigh> Analogies and metaphors don't work when you know your audience is taking it literally AND you keep double down on the deception.

I believe that that is the Lord's Spirit drawing you in closer to Him.

That guy is a couch potato.
Did I lie? No, I do not think that the man is a real potato that sits on the couch. And the audience knows that, der.

I remember hearing about a Home Depot that had a bomb scare. They called out the Bomb Squad and everybody. Oh but someone took the man too seriously, lol.
He had walked into the bathroom because he had to poop, and he said something like, I'm about to set off a bomb, or I'm going to drop a bomb, or something like that. And someone didnt understand that he was telling them to run from the stink so went and told the staff that someone has a bomb in the restroom!
Man when that guy was done pooping and came out, they slapped the cuffs right on him. What are you doing? I was just in there dropping a bomb, why?

I dont think they charged him with anything but I'm not positive. I think they just released him. After all, all the bomb squad found in the bathroom was stink !!

Just a big metaphor in a terrified world. Metaphors are everywhere and people use them every day. Taking Communion is highly metaphorical. Wine is not wine but the blood of Jesus? Bread is not bread, it is the flesh of Jesus? When I partake in Communion I hold my wine glass up and declare, this Is the blood of Jesus. And the bread, this Is the flesh of Jesus...but when I take it in my mouth, it still tastes like bread and wine. Did He lie? NO. All that means to me is that when I do this on earth it has profound effects upon something in the spiritual realm.

I dunno what it is yet. I havent yet graduated! But if the wine still tastes like wine and I have decared it in the name of Jesus to be the blood of Jesus, then the effects of that have to be in the spiritual realm

 

[Wrangler]

I was just in there dropping a bomb, why?

That reminds me years ago (decades before 9/11) my boss and I went to Canada from Detroit to catch a flight to Montreal. It was a small plane and just before boarding they had us put our carry on through metal detectors. I sarcastically said, "Yea, like I have a bomb on a plane I'm going on." The security gal knew I was being sarcastic but still scolded me and insisted I seriously state whether I am claiming I have a bomb. Geesh.

But if the wine still tastes like wine

I like wine but not necessarily "wine."

 

[MA2444]

What's the difference? I don't lie. I just have my attorney, my agent do it on my behalf and at my command. What kind of sophistry is that?

That there is the problem of looking at something carnally Brother. The soul will never get it, he is unable to. So we have to look to the unseen to fill in the holes for us. And that takes stepping into faith like you said it aint about, lol. Faith carries evidence too!

Sometimes, mankind acts like a bunch of dumb girls, lol. Just so shallow of understanding that whoa, somebody chaperone her! Lol. Me too! That isnt no slam on you brother. It is all of us.

You are going to look good in a Wedding dress, Wrangler! (Me too, lol.) But for now we have to be careful what falls out of our mouth, lest we be seen as some sort of spiritual feminist in Heaven!
Sophistry is sort of a harsh word I think? But what do I know?

 

[MA2444]

That reminds me years ago (decades before 9/11) my boss and I went to Canada from Detroit to catch a flight to Montreal. It was a small plane and just before boarding they had us put our carry on through metal detectors. I sarcastically said, "Yea, like I have a bomb on a plane I'm going on." The security gal knew I was being sarcastic but still scolded me and insisted I seriously state whether I am claiming I have a bomb. Geesh.

I remember one time I was walking downtown on a really hot day. I had to make the next right and there was bank on the corner so I figured I would go in the front door and out the side door and get a blast of air conditioning as I cut through. There's one lone guy at the counter with his head down and no other customers in the bank, so I felt confident enough to crack a joke. I said this is a hold up and that guy about peed his pants I think! I seen him go white and I said whoa bro I'm joking, I'm joking! I didnt mean to pset the guy, just crack a joke on my way through. I never did that again.

 

[MA2444]

It seems to me that Christiandom has become overly spiritualized.

Whaat? I disagree with that. If anything Christiandom needs to become spiritualized because therein spiritualization is a relationship with Jesus. You must engage with the Holy Spirit. No way around it.

It's not just a Christian cliche anymore, I am indwelt by the Holy Spirit...like saying that means something?It does really. It means He is there for us to engage with right now. We have to become sensitiveto the presence of the Holy Spirit.