Why I Would Not Like Jesus

[Michiah-Imla]

lying of the Messiah

Jesus never told a lie (unless you’re reading a modern Bible based on the corrupt texts of Wescott & Hort).

If you don’t understand the words of Jesus seek God in deep prayer.

 

[MA2444]

Don't put the blame on me. There is a time for metaphors and a time for straight talk.

Using metaphors is poor communication when you are frustrated that the other party does not understand you.

I dunno know about that Brother. Me thinks tha Lord can talk however He wants to! I learned this lesson the hard way. I dont always like what the Lord say but I'm learnng to obey it regardless.

Remember the road to Emmaus?

Luke 24:
13 That same day two of Jesus’ followers were walking to the village of Emmaus, seven miles[a] from Jerusalem. 14 As they walked along they were talking about everything that had happened. 15 As they talked and discussed these things, Jesus himself suddenly came and began walking with them. 16 But God kept them from recognizing him.

17 He asked them, “What are you discussing so intently as you walk along?”

They stopped short, sadness written across their faces. 18 Then one of them, Cleopas, replied, “You must be the only person in Jerusalem who hasn’t heard about all the things that have happened there the last few days.”

19 “What things?” Jesus asked..../NLT

Why would Jesus say that to them? He is Jesus and knows all and better than they do!

Easy. Jesus has a sense of humor. I thought this was hilarious when I read it. He asks then as if He didnt know! He didnt say He didnt know, He just asked them, so He didnt lie. I dont think Jesus lies even if He does use metaphors or analogies. He is God and no one questions Him. It sounds so stupid to do. Zechariah questioned the Angel and got struck dumb for it!

I hadnt learned that one yet and questioned God myself. He didnt say one word about it, He simply repeated what He needed me to do with some urgency in His voice and also....(Whoa.) He used that parental tone of doom! The same tone that parents use on their children that sends the message....just shut up and do what I say or your in big trouble mister! THAT tone! I never felt so much terror in all my life. It was so bad that even now I still thank God for Him taking that tone with me instead of striking me dumb or something!

 

[Lambano]

Jesus does what He wants to do and says what He wants to say, which puts me into react mode. Which I hate, because I'm a control freak. Just ask my wife.

 

[Wrangler]

I dunno know about that Brother. Me thinks tha Lord can talk however He wants to!

We can all talk however we want. That's not the point. The point is recognizing Jesus deceptive communication led to frustration on his part regarding his audience not understanding. One wonders what would be an indicator or poor communication if not that.

For me not liking it, it is different than when I talk to my 3 yo grandchildren who lack the vocabulary to communicate directly. Is the girl asleep or dead? If dead, why say she is asleep? A is A.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus never told a lie

Again, sacred cow. He obviously lied repeatedly. Is the girl asleep or dead? Is Solomon's temple going to be built in 3 days or another temple? Is he the Christ or not?

I've already explained repeatedly that to lie is not necessarily a sin and deception is an effective tool in war, which he and we are in, a spiritual war. However, you are fooling yourself if your take on indirect communication extends to violate mutually exclusive language usage.

Let me give you an example. Years ago I had a joint savings account with my stepdaughter. I put money in and she took it out without permission. She said she'd put it all back the next month. 2 months later I asked her if she put the money back. Her reply? She did not put it ALL back.

I already went to the bank and had the facts. Putting no money back in is not putting it ALL back. So, I asked a follow up question that she was not prepared for. How much money did you put back? Obviously, her original statement of not putting it all back logically implies something that SHE KNEW is not true. Is the girl asleep or dead? Is Solomon's temple going to be built in 3 days or another temple? Is he the Christ or not?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

We can all talk however we want. That's not the point. The point is recognizing Jesus deceptive communication led to frustration on his part regarding his audience not understanding. One wonders what would be an indicator or poor communication if not that.

For me not liking it, it is different than when I talk to my 3 yo grandchildren who lack the vocabulary to communicate directly. Is the girl asleep or dead? If dead, why say she is asleep? A is A.

Hello Wrangler, Some people have issues with Christ, do you have any?

Love, Walter

 

[Wrangler]

Hello Wrangler, Some people have issues with Christ, do you have any?

Love, Walter

Huh? With an OP title like "Why I Would Not Like Jesus" you're asking me that? Why do you ask?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Huh? With an OP title like "Why I Would Not Like Jesus" you're asking me that? Why do you ask?

You, Sir, have made it known, how you are expressing yourself which to me you have not done before, why?

 

[MA2444]

We can all talk however we want. That's not the point. The point is recognizing Jesus deceptive communication led to frustration on his part regarding his audience not understanding. One wonders what would be an indicator or poor communication if not that.

For me not liking it, it is different than when I talk to my 3 yo grandchildren who lack the vocabulary to communicate directly. Is the girl asleep or dead? If dead, why say she is asleep? A is A.

I think He chooses His words carefully so as to conceal certain things and not give people too much information too soo they may not have the capacity for it. People have different capacities for understanding and besides, He is intentionally, being vague so that we must learn to have faith.

I may not understand it. I may not like it. But I did obey it, eventually!

One time after I learned to hear the voice of the Lord, we talked all the time, and we had been talking and I had out running errands spending money on non essential items (LOL) and then after I was broke, I came home...and found my HWH leaking, so it would need replacing. Ugh. At least that is my trade so I know how to install it myself. I checked the serial number, 5 1/2 years old. Just out of warranty, figures. So even if I buy that exact model so all the connections are the same, I might only need 3 couplings to tie it back in with the waterlines.
Wait a minute...water heaters are 4 to 5 hundred bucks even wholesale now. I had the money this morning to buy one!
I wonder why the Lord didnt talk to me and tell me to save money for a water heater? We had been talking most of the day. Why didnt He warn me?! Now I e to go without hot water for a whole month until the eagle farts again. Luckily He had urged me to catch up all the laundry, so that's one plus! I had just got it all done the night before.
No hot water for a month? (Why wouldn't you warn me Lord?!)
And I wasnt sure what type of game He was playing with me, or what the test was, so I just started chuckling to myself and I prayed, Lord I don't know what your doing here, but I do trust you and if I go without hot water for a month, I'll live through it!

And the next day I called the plumbing supply house to price the new water heater so I would know what I'm looking at next month. I wanted the exact model so it would be a slip fit.
Model & serial number....
So I gave it to him.
please hold...
He came back on and said, Yes we have that model and this is still under warranty so it will be no cost, just bring us the sticker from the old one...

!!! So that's what the Lord was doing! He was testing my reaction. See if I had any faith in Him.
I did! So I passed the test!

Funny thing. This is my Trade and I had known that Rheem has a 6 year warranty. I've known it for years, it's a selling point. And yet, I didnt remember that at the time, curiously! I think perhaps I was blocked from remembering somehow! So instead of it being slightly out of warranty it was still slightly in warranty!

He never lied to me. He omitted telling me pertinant things because He was doing something with me. Testing my faith. And I reckon that all the instances of how Jesus spoke in scripture that you raise your eyebrows at...He did it for a good reason, we just havent understood all these things yet.

But one thing stands clear! You can absoulutely Trust Jesus. For awhile there it was kinda like we was building a resume of trust between us and I dunno how much He trusts e yet, but He has proven to me over and over, that, I can trust Him!
How many trust Testimonies of mine would you like to hear?!!

He has good reasons for what He does.

 

[Wrangler]

You, Sir, have made it known, how you are expressing yourself which to me you have not done before, why?

You can't answer a question with a question. Why does it matter why not before?

My 3 yo grandaughter says she doesn't like root beer. I ask her why she hasn't said so before?! Come on!

 

[WalterandDebbie]

You can't answer a question with a question. Why does it matter why not before?

My 3 yo grandaughter says she doesn't like root beer. I ask her why she hasn't said so before?! Come on!

It makes all the difference in this world when you talk against the one who has made everything.

 

[marks]

Why I Would Not Like Jesus​

Interesting, if you are a Christian, the end goal is to make you like Him. Are you sure that's what you want?

Much love!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Going back to the OP Wrangler....

the basis of my dislike is grounded in a sacred cow, lying of the Messiah. Of course, no one will admit this is lying because of the sacred cow. What do you call it when you deliberately use words incorrectly, deceptively, unnecessarily and overly figuratively? Politicians are hated for this; speaking with a forked tongue; saying one thing but meaning another.

Did Jesus lie? When did he ever speak with a forked tongue? Was he deceptive and overtly figurative? This is dangerous talk. You realize that you are accusing Jesus of doing exactly what satan did?......just because the disciples misunderstand him at times, doesn’t make him a liar. They were learning that Jesus had things to say that deliberately left out certain individuals, the meaning of which they were never going to understand.....deliberately withheld from wicked hearts.

This pattern is seen throughout the Gospels and Jesus admitted using parables to fulfill prophecy. However, today's devotional reading is no kind of parable and reveals why I would not like Jesus especially concisely. In Matthew 16:11 Jesus asks, "Why can't you understand that I am not talking about bread?"

The simple answer is 'because words have meaning and you are using the word bread.' V12 explains they finally understood he was talking about the deceptiveness (of the teaching of the religious leaders).
A is A.
Bread is bread.
Deceptiveness is deceptiveness.

Perhaps this is where a bit of research is needed...what did Jesus actually say to his disciples in this instance? What is the context of Matt 16:11....?
From verse 5....
“5 Now the disciples crossed to the other side and forgot to take bread along. 6 Jesus said to them: “Keep your eyes open and watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 7 So they began to reason among themselves, saying: “We did not take any loaves along.” 8 Knowing this, Jesus said: “Why are you discussing among yourselves that you have no loaves, you with little faith? 9 Do you not yet see the point, or do you not remember the five loaves in the case of the 5,000 and how many baskets you took up? 10 Or the seven loaves in the case of the 4,000 and how many large baskets you took up? 11 How is it you do not discern that I did not speak to you about bread? But watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they grasped that he said to watch out, not for the leaven of bread, but for the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

Jesus’ frustration was justified....Jesus said to “watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.”....he didn’t say “bread” (“artos”).....he said “zymē” which is “leaven”....a component only of leavened bread. There were occasions when Jews ate unleavened bread, so they knew what leaven was.

It wasn’t a difficult concept at all....no deceptiveness was ever intended.
Your accusation is false, because you didn’t understand his words, just as they didn’t. You sided with their lack of understanding but didn’t wait for the explanation......nor it appears, that you sought one.

I was taught a good communication technique is to say what you mean and mean what you say.

Jesus did say what he meant, and meant what he said.....it was they who misunderstood.

This is not only effective communication but effective teaching. Jesus may have been a teacher but he obviously was not an effective teacher using any objective standard. Imagine any other teacher whose own students don't understand him and his teachings ended up getting him killed? Enter the sacred cow. Oh but from a spiritual perspective ...

This leap to criticism comes from your own ignorance, Wrangler.....you have the ability like anyone else who has access to the Internet, to research the topic, yet this is where you go....’wrangling’ over things that have a simple explanation. Is that your own “sacred cow”? You would rather accuse the son of God for being a bad teacher when he (as one who had existed in his Father’s presence from “the beginning”) was actually the best teacher in existence. His teachings prompted his enemies to orchestrate his murder, but then where would we be if that did not take place? He knew from the start of his mission that it would end in his death.

His apostles learned his teaching methods first hand, all of them......we have only scripture to teach us, and we know that not everything he taught was recorded...only the important things. But the important things are what guide us and we learn as the disciples learned, exactly what he meant.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

He obviously lied repeatedly. Is the girl asleep or dead? Is Solomon's temple going to be built in 3 days or another temple? Is he the Christ or not?

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14, KJV)

Sounds like a discernment issue to me.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

No one who is Carnal would truly like Jesus ! Because they are under a Curse, it's called Sin ! For they are Lost in fact.
But for they who are Found, they are abiding in him !

Even Jesus Deciples did not truly know him, untill Jesus became Christ Jesus and that was when he went to Heaven in fact that they understood, for they were born again.

When one is truly born again, then one understands that Christ Jesus is the only way and that you abide in him as he does in you.

 

[TheHC]

If you are easily offended stop reading now.












I'm not sure what forum this should be in. I put it in the Ethics and Morality forum because the basis of my dislike is grounded in a sacred cow, lying of the Messiah. Of course, no one will admit this is lying because of the sacred cow. What do you call it when you deliberately use words incorrectly, deceptively, unnecessarily and overly figuratively? Politicians are hated for this; speaking with a forked tongue; saying one thing but meaning another.

This pattern is seen throughout the Gospels and Jesus admitted using parables to fulfill prophecy. However, today's devotional reading is no kind of parable and reveals why I would not like Jesus especially concisely. In Matthew 16:11 Jesus asks, "Why can't you understand that I am not talking about bread?"

The simple answer is 'because words have meaning and you are using the word bread.' V12 explains they finally understood he was talking about the deceptiveness (of the teaching of the religious leaders).
A is A.
Bread is bread.
Deceptiveness is deceptiveness.

I was taught a good communication technique is to say what you mean and mean what you say. This is not only effective communication but effective teaching. Jesus may have been a teacher but he obviously was not an effective teacher using any objective standard. Imagine any other teacher whose own students don't understand him and his teachings ended up getting him killed? Enter the sacred cow. Oh but from a spiritual perspective ...

I get it! Jesus is the son of God and was given all authority. That really doesn't change anything about the truth of what I'm saying.

Keep in mind…Jesus could read hearts. So He was aware of those who were sincere, at that time.

(I say, “at that time”, because later their attitude could change.)

In John 6: we have the incident where Jesus told those Jews that were following him (to get more food), “unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no part with me.” (That would be awful for a Jew to think of that literally.)

It served as a test to winnow out those who really weren’t interested in his sayings.

 

[TheHC]

Is the girl asleep or dead?

Death is sleep. John 11:11-14

Is Solomon's temple going to be built in 3 days or another temple?

Jesus was dead for “3 days.” After his resurrection, Jesus was to become the chief cornerstone (Isa.28:16) of the spiritual temple. Paul explained this in Hebrews. (8:1-5; 9:1-10:10)

 

[Wrangler]

It makes all the difference in this world when you talk against the one who has made everything.

Theologically, I reject the implied premise of this statement.

Psychologically, you can tell me all day long how I SHOULD feel. I'm dealing with the reality of how I feel. And I've articulated very clearly why I would not like Jesus.

He obviously lied repeatedly. Is the girl asleep or dead? Is Solomon's temple going to be built in 3 days or another temple? Is he the Christ or not?

 

[Wrangler]

Sounds like a discernment issue to me.

Yes, it most certainly is a discernment issues for those who continue to claim Jesus never lied in the face of many Scripture verses where he did. Explaining WHY he lied (which I do grasp fully and agree with) does not change the WHAT, that he lied. However, lying to enemies is one thing. He also lied to his friends as the OP details.

Let me be clear. You can wax with literary wonder how he side stepped direct questions. Politicians are hated for this quality! I'm simply saying it is absurd to pretend he sets the ultimate standard for "tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth." The truth of how he addressed traps of his day is far more sophisticated and subtle.

 

[Spyder]

Going back to the OP Wrangler....

Did Jesus lie? When did he ever speak with a forked tongue? Was he deceptive and overtly figurative? This is dangerous talk. You realize that you are accusing Jesus of doing exactly what satan did?......just because the disciples misunderstand him at times, doesn’t make him a liar. They were learning that Jesus had things to say that deliberately left out certain individuals, the meaning of which they were never going to understand.....deliberately withheld from wicked hearts.

Perhaps this is where a bit of research is needed...what did Jesus actually say to his disciples in this instance? What is the context of Matt 16:11....?
From verse 5....
“5 Now the disciples crossed to the other side and forgot to take bread along. 6 Jesus said to them: “Keep your eyes open and watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 7 So they began to reason among themselves, saying: “We did not take any loaves along.” 8 Knowing this, Jesus said: “Why are you discussing among yourselves that you have no loaves, you with little faith? 9 Do you not yet see the point, or do you not remember the five loaves in the case of the 5,000 and how many baskets you took up? 10 Or the seven loaves in the case of the 4,000 and how many large baskets you took up? 11 How is it you do not discern that I did not speak to you about bread? But watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they grasped that he said to watch out, not for the leaven of bread, but for the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

Jesus’ frustration was justified....Jesus said to “watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.”....he didn’t say “bread” (“artos”).....he said “zymē” which is “leaven”....a component only of leavened bread. There were occasions when Jews ate unleavened bread, so they knew what leaven was.

It wasn’t a difficult concept at all....no deceptiveness was ever intended.
Your accusation is false, because you didn’t understand his words, just as they didn’t. You sided with their lack of understanding but didn’t wait for the explanation......nor it appears, that you sought one.

Jesus did say what he meant, and meant what he said.....it was they who misunderstood.

This leap to criticism comes from your own ignorance, Wrangler.....you have the ability like anyone else who has access to the Internet, to research the topic, yet this is where you go....’wrangling’ over things that have a simple explanation. Is that your own “sacred cow”? You would rather accuse the son of God for being a bad teacher when he (as one who had existed in his Father’s presence from “the beginning”) was actually the best teacher in existence. His teachings prompted his enemies to orchestrate his murder, but then where would we be if that did not take place? He knew from the start of his mission that it would end in his death.

His apostles learned his teaching methods first hand, all of them......we have only scripture to teach us, and we know that not everything he taught was recorded...only the important things. But the important things are what guide us and we learn as the disciples learned, exactly what he meant.

I thought I presented this similar answer in post #2, but it didn't take. I hope your longer post gets through.