Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

[St. SteVen]

Isa 66:23 “And it will come to pass, that from one New Moon to another, and from one Shabbat to another, all flesh will come to bow down before Me,” says Adonai.
Isa 66:24 “As they leave, they will look on the corpses of the people who rebelled against Me. For their worm will not die, and their fire will not be quenched, and they will be a horror to all flesh.”

Thanks.
I was looking for that quote earlier.

 

[Brakelite]

So the contrast is life (reward) and death (punishment).

One could put it this way... Death is the inevitable result for one who isn't given eternal life. It is a knowledge of Jesus that saves us from death (John 17:3), that is, eternal destruction (not eternal destroying, nor eternal dying, but a final absolute state of existence). Nowhere in scripture does it say that eternal life is granted a sinner for the purpose of punishing him in hell, as would have to be the case if ECT was a thing.

 

[Johann]

Agree.
Interesting to note that Jesus was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth? (the realm of the dead)

Matthew 12:40

Some try to say that the phrase "in the heart of the earth" in Matthew 12:40 does not mean buried in a grave or tomb. Those who support this theory say that heart implies "middle of" or "midst of," and earth should really be translated as "country" or "world." Thus, the argument runs, Jesus is actually saying that He would be three days and nights in Jerusalem, since it was the center of the nations according to Ezekiel 5:5: "This is Jerusalem; I have set her in the midst of the nations and the countries all around her." Supporters do not say how Jesus' being in Jerusalem for this amount of time can act as a sign of His Messiahship.

However, this argument holds no water. First, the Greek is literally translated here, as it is from a Hebrew idiom found in Jonah 2:2-3, the place to which Jesus referred in giving His sign. In that place, "heart of the sea" parallels "into the deep," which Jonah in the previous verse calls "the belly of Sheol," which is the pit where the dead are laid or the grave. So, heart of the earth means "underground," just as heart of the seas means "underwater." "In the heart of the earth," then, was a Hebrew metaphor signifying being dead and buried.

Second, the similar sign Jesus gave in John 2:19, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up," is explained plainly in verse 21: "But He was speaking of the temple of His body." Though they use different metaphors, the two signs are the same: Being in the heart of the earth is the result of having the temple of His body destroyed. Ergo, Jesus was not talking of His travel plans in Jerusalem but of His death, burial, and resurrection.

Indeed, the Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35), as much as men try to cram their traditional beliefs into it. Would that they read the Bible for what it says rather than what they want it to say!

Richard T. Ritenbaugh
In the Heart of the Earth

 

[Johann]

Matthew 12:40

Some try to say that the phrase "in the heart of the earth" in Matthew 12:40 does not mean buried in a grave or tomb. Those who support this theory say that heart implies "middle of" or "midst of," and earth should really be translated as "country" or "world." Thus, the argument runs, Jesus is actually saying that He would be three days and nights in Jerusalem, since it was the center of the nations according to Ezekiel 5:5: "This is Jerusalem; I have set her in the midst of the nations and the countries all around her." Supporters do not say how Jesus' being in Jerusalem for this amount of time can act as a sign of His Messiahship.

However, this argument holds no water. First, the Greek is literally translated here, as it is from a Hebrew idiom found in Jonah 2:2-3, the place to which Jesus referred in giving His sign. In that place, "heart of the sea" parallels "into the deep," which Jonah in the previous verse calls "the belly of Sheol," which is the pit where the dead are laid or the grave. So, heart of the earth means "underground," just as heart of the seas means "underwater." "In the heart of the earth," then, was a Hebrew metaphor signifying being dead and buried.

Second, the similar sign Jesus gave in John 2:19, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up," is explained plainly in verse 21: "But He was speaking of the temple of His body." Though they use different metaphors, the two signs are the same: Being in the heart of the earth is the result of having the temple of His body destroyed. Ergo, Jesus was not talking of His travel plans in Jerusalem but of His death, burial, and resurrection.

Indeed, the Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35), as much as men try to cram their traditional beliefs into it. Would that they read the Bible for what it says rather than what they want it to say!

Richard T. Ritenbaugh
In the Heart of the Earth

Matthew 12:40 ESV
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Ephesians 4:9 ESV
(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Luke 23:43 ESV
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Luke 16:19-31 ESV
“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. ...

Revelation 1:18 ESV
And the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

1 Peter 3:18-20 ESV
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

Ephesians 4:8-10 ESV
Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Luke 16:23 ESV
And in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

Ephesians 4:8 ESV
Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”

Revelation 21:8 ESV
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Revelation 20:14 ESV
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Revelation 1:5 ESV
And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood

1 Peter 3:19 ESV
In which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,

Acts 2:31 ESV
He foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

Acts 1:18 ESV
(Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.

Romans 6:23 ESV
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 20:17 ESV
Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

John 3:16 ESV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Revelation 2:7 ESV
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’

John 3:16-17 ESV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Psalm 16:10 ESV
For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, or let your holy one see corruption.

 

[Jack]

Those who reject eternal Hell fire reject the Christian Bible.

Revelation 20
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Johann]

Those who reject eternal Hell fire reject the Christian Bible.

Revelation 20
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

A interesting note from Gill--
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life,.... Upon the opening of it, Rev_20:12 as all that worship the beast, and wonder after him, Rev_13:8 and all wicked men, everyone of them:
was cast into the lake of fire; where are the devil, beast, and false prophet,

Rev_19:20. It is a saying of R. Isaac (m),
"woe to the wicked, who are not written בפתקא, "in the book", for they shall perish in hell for ever and ever:''

and in the Targum on Eze_13:9 it is said of the false prophets,

"that בכתב חיי עלמא, "in the writing of eternal life" (or in the book of eternal life), which is written for the righteous of the house of Israel, they shall not be written.''

There seems to be some allusion in the phrase used here, and in the preceding verse, and elsewhere in this book, to the lake Asphaltites, a sulphurous lake, where Sodom and Gomorrah stood, which the Jews call the salt sea, or the bituminous lake; and whatsoever was useless, or rejected, or abominable, or accursed, they used to say, to show their rejection and detestation of it, let it be cast into the sea of salt, or the bituminous lake; thus, for instance,
"any vessels that had on them the image of the sun, or of the moon, or of a dragon, יוליכם לים המלח, "let them cast them into the salt sea", or bituminous lake (n).''

If any was not found written in the book of life (ei tis ouch heurethē en tēi biblōi tēs zōēs). Condition of first class with ei and the first aorist passive indicative of heuriskō.

In this short sentence the doom is told of all who are out of Christ, for they too follow the devil and the two beasts into the lake of fire (the counterpart of the Gehenna of fire, Mat_5:22). There is no room here for soul sleeping, for an intermediate state, for a second chance, or for annihilation of the wicked. In Dan_12:2 there is a resurrection to death as well as to life and so in Joh_5:29; Act_24:15.
Robertson

whosoever: Mar_16:16; Joh_3:18-19, Joh_3:36, Joh_14:6; Act_4:12; Heb_2:3, Heb_12:25; 1Jn_5:11-12
was cast: Rev_19:20; Mat_25:41; Mar_9:43-48


Yes, O man! O woman! whoever you may be, your biography is written. An unerring hand has recorded every item, with every secret thing. There is not an ill thought, a mean act, a scene of wrong in all your history, a dirty transaction, a filthiness of speech, or a base feeling that ever found entertainment in your heart, but is there described in bold hand, by its true name, and set down to your account, to be then brought forth for final settlement, if not clean blotted out through faith in Christ’s blood before this present life of yours is ended.103

And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him! (Luke 12:4-5) [emphasis added]

 

[Brakelite]

Isa 66:23 “And it will come to pass, that from one New Moon to another, and from one Shabbat to another, all flesh will come to bow down before Me,” says Adonai.
Isa 66:24 “As they leave, they will look on the corpses of the people who rebelled against Me. For their worm will not die, and their fire will not be quenched, and they will be a horror to all flesh.”


And they shall go forth, and look upon the pigrei ha’anashim that have rebelled against Me; for their tola'at (worm) shall not die, neither shall their eish be quenched; and they shall be dera'on (loathsome, an abomination) to kol basar [See also on Gehinnom Dan 12:2].

look: Isa_66:16; Psa_58:10-11; Eze_39:9-16; Zec_14:12, Zec_14:18-19; Rev_19:17-21
their worm: Isa_14:11; Mar_9:44-49; Rev_14:10-11
their fire: Isa_34:10; Mat_3:12
and they: Isa_65:15; Dan_12:2; 1Th_2:15-16

Just a reminder, that this place where the carcasses/corpses are laying, is the surface of the earth after the plagues have fallen prior to the second coming. The remnant that remain, the redeemed, both the living that are translated, and the dead that are resurrected, will witness all of this, and see the bodies strewn from one end of the earth to the other: bodies which are neither gathered nor buried. Thus they remain for 1000 years until they are temporarily raised up to be shown the just destiny, eternal death. They are destroyed eventually in the same fire that comes down from heaven that destroys everything else to give the Lord a clean canvas upon which to create the new heavens and the new earth. The meek who inherit that earth will not be accompanied by the screams and wracking painful cries of the impenitent wicked for all eternity. The lake of fire that devours them, while unquenchable by anything anyone may do, will eventually go out of it's own accord like all fires once the fuel is spent. The final being to die, and thus the longest to suffer, will be Satan.

 

[Johann]

Just a reminder, that this place where the carcasses/corpses are laying, is the surface of the earth after the plagues have fallen prior to the second coming. The remnant that remain, the redeemed, both the living that are translated, and the dead that are resurrected, will witness all of this, and see the bodies strewn from one end of the earth to the other: bodies which are neither gathered nor buried. Thus they remain for 1000 years until they are temporarily raised up to be shown the just destiny, eternal death. They are destroyed eventually in the same fire that comes down from heaven that destroys everything else to give the Lord a clean canvas upon which to create the new heavens and the new earth. The meek who inherit that earth will not be accompanied by the screams and wracking painful cries of the impenitent wicked for all eternity. The lake of fire that devours them, while unquenchable by anything anyone may do, will eventually go out of it's own accord like all fires once the fuel is spent. The final being to die, and thus the longest to suffer, will be Satan.

Thanks for the reminder, but am in disagreement with the last couple of sentences--and no Scripture references.
J.

 

[Jack]

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Amen Jesus!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God is into fair justice:

Luke 12:47-48 says,

47 "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."​

“Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal 1; knowing that ye [you-all] also have a Master in heaven.” (Colossians 4:1).

1. equal: characterized by fairness (Source: 1913 Webster’s Dictionary).

“Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.” (Romans 9:14).

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle once said,

“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”​

In fact, the whole reason why Jesus went to the cross was to pay the price for our sins. If God was not into fair justice, He simply would not have needed to send His Son to pay the price for our sin and He could have simply just forgiven us with no payment for sin. But the Lord our God is a God of fair justice. So the Son was sent to die for you, and me. How bitter, and yet sweet that truth is. For it truly shows how truly loving and good the Lord is to us.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Explaining Hell:

Hell is a very real and literal place of torment that no person should desire to be. The flame will torment people. However, many have made hell out to be something that it is not. Hollywood and hellhouses at churches give us a picture of hell that the Bible does not describe. In Luke 16:19-31, what folks fail to understand is that when the Rich-man went to Torments (Hell or Hades), he was not actually being burned by any Earth-like flames. How so? Well, if the Rich-man was engulfed entirely by Earth-like flames --- he wouldn't be asking for a little water to cool his tongue, he would have been screaming too loudly in pain to even hear Abraham (if such were the case). If he was able to hold down his pain of screaming (for a moment), he would be shouting to Abraham for a giant barrel of water or lots of buckets of water to lower the flame or to put it out. But does the text say the rich man was screaming? Surely not. Yet, this is how people today depict the wicked in hell. In fact, if a person was being engulfed by flames today in the real world, how likely are they to carry on a normal conversation with you? They wouldn't because they would be screaming too loudly from the pain.

So we are faced with one of two possibilities here:

Possibility #1. In Luke 16:24, when the Rich-man said, "...I am tormented in this flame," the Rich-man was referring to the fact about how he was tormented in the flame that was either nearby him or in front of him that was in the gulf that was between him and Abraham (Sort of like if I said I am happy in this car --- yet the car is in front of me). (Similar language like this can be found with the words "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman," - Genesis 2:23). Adam was not referring to his own flesh, with the word "this", but he was referring to Eve who was in front of him. In other words, it was the heat of the flame in front of the rich-man that made him uncomfortable or tormented.

Possibility #2. The rich-man was in actual flames but it was not an Earthly flame to cause him any kind of extreme pain whereby he could carry on a normal conversation instead of screaming. The flame would have to be very mild in discomfort or it did not cause the same level of pain as a real flame would (as we know it).​

Now, do not misunderstand me, dear believer. I am not trying to minimize the true horrible nature of hell as we read about it in the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Hell is bad. I believe hell is an extremely horrible place. We should warn others not to go there, and point them to the saving grace, and love of our Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. Surely the rich-man was not putting on an actor’s performance when he desired to warn his brothers about such a place. Hell is bad. Really bad. Nobody should want to go there. It is a place of torments. But we should not also paint a picture of hell that the Bible does not paint or teach, either. Some make hell out to be something that it is not specifically stated (Portraying it as an extreme torture chamber of men and women screaming uncontrollably). We simply do not know that this is so. If the Lord wanted to let us know that hell is a place of extreme torture and pain, and screaming, He would have given us this description in Scripture as such, but He didn’t. I believe it is well, when we do not go beyond what is written (Especially when that addition leans towards the negative side). Sure, we may guess as to what may be or not, but to officially say that hell is like this or that when the Bible has not said so, is to add to Scripture something that is not there. So please understand that even my explanations on what is happening to the rich man is not a hardcore facts in Scripture but mere possibilities to give comfort about what we know involving our Lord’s goodness and fair justice.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As for the Lake of Fire:

Is it forever or is it a place where the wicked will eventually perish?

Well, we need to keep in mind that the King James Bible is the Bible that existed for hundreds of years as THE BIBLE long before the Modern Translations showed up. The KJB influenced even the Modern Translations we have today. While I believe the KJB to be the perfect Word of God, I also realize that it is written in archaic English (1600’s English) and we cannot always enforce a modern understanding upon older words. Words have to be read in context of the whole Bible, and within light of God’s good character and fair justice.

I say this because…

Forever Does Not Always Mean Forever in the Bible:

In fact, I believe why most hold to Eternal Torment is because they do not understand that the word "forever" does not always mean "forever" in the Bible. Sure, sometimes the word “forever” can mean “forever,” but not always.

Well, I heard a pastor once say that the best way to interpret the Bible is to let the Bible do the interpreting for you.

In other words, the word "forever" (and it's related words) does not always mean forever in the Bible. “Forever” can be talking about "forever" here on this Earth (as long as someone lives) or in having a sense of "completeness" or "totality" for a specific thing). For what do you make of the following verses below that say that "forever" (or it's related words) is not forever?

​

• In Genesis 13:15 the land of Canaan is given to Israel “forever”.​

​

• The Law is to be a statute “forever” (Exodus 12:24; Exodus 27:21; Exodus 28:43).​

​

• Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 1:7) until -- God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" (Ezekiel 16:53-55).​

​

• Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jeremiah 30:12) until -- the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jeremiah 30:17).​

​

• The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Micah 1:9) until -- Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ezekiel 16:53).​

​

• Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no more" (Zephaniah 2:9, Jeremiah 25:27 until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jeremiah 49:6).​

​

• An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever" until -- the tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:3):​

​

• Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting" until -- they "were shattered" Habakkuk 3:6).​

​

• The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Exodus 40:15), that is-until-it was superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews 7:14-18).​

​

• Many translations of the Bible inform us that God would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings 8:13), until -- the Temple was destroyed.​

​

• The children of Israel were to "observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant" (Exodus 31:16)-until -- Paul states there remains "another day" of Sabbath rest for the people of God (Hebrews 4:8-9).​

​

• The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant" (Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians 3:11-13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).​

​

• The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a "perpetual" until -- Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins.​

​

Hell. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Leviticus 6:12-13, Hebrews 8:6-13).​

​

• God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever" until--the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6-10; Jonah 1:17); Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jeremiah 25:27) until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of Egypt" (Ezekiel 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam" (Jeremiah 49:39).​

​

• "Moab is destroyed" (Jeremiah 48:4, Jeremiah 48:42) until--the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jeremiah 48:47).​

​

• Israel's judgment lasts "forever" until -- the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isaiah 32:13-15).​

​

• The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us that a bond slave was to serve his master "forever" (Exodus 21:6), until -- his death.​

​

• “Eternal” (Greek aionia, αιονια) is sometimes used of a limited (not endless) period of time. But the most common use is illustrated in 2 Corinthians 4:18 where it is contrasted with “temporal” and in Philemon 1:15 where it is contrasted with “for a while.”​

So the word "forever" as used in the Bible is true. It does mean "forever" but it is talking in "forever" under the context of within either a temporary Covenant, or here upon this Earth (which is temporal), or within the Lake of Fire (Which is also a temporary place). In Philemon 1:15: Paul mentioned to Philemon how Onesimus was going to return back to him (his master) forever.

Obviously Onesimus is not an immortal man still living upon the Earth with his master (Philemon) today. He was returning back to his master forever within the context of their temporary lives upon the Earth.


Source used:
(Please take note that I do not agree with everything these Christian authors believe, say, or do).
Apttpteach

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Popular Eternal Torment Verses Explained:

There are only about 5 major verses in Scripture that appear at first glance to teach Eternal Torment.

1. Daniel 12:2
2. Matthew 25:46
3. Mark 9:44 (Same: Mark 9:48) (Similar to Matthew 25:41).
4. Revelation 14:11
5. Revelation 20:10

But all of these verses can be explained properly in light of comparing Scripture with Scripture.

1. Explaining Daniel 12:2

“And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” (Daniel 12:2).

Well, it is perfectly reasonable to read Daniel’s description of the unsaved here as describing not what they feel, but rather, how others feel about the unsaved. They rise to everlasting contempt because at their resurrection they discover that they will always be viewed with contempt by the righteous who, unlike them have risen to eternal life. Although the wicked will not live for eternity, the contempt held for them will.

Consider this: Adolf Hitler is dead, yet don’t we still revile his name? Even if his soul is conscious in some intermediate state, he probably can’t hear us or read our minds when we scorn his memory. Does this mean that when we think of Hitler we don’t think of him with contempt, since he is gone? Of course not! Even an atheist who does not believe that Hitler exists in any form would still say that he is looked upon with contempt. His contempt is ongoing, even if he himself is not (though he will certainly be resurrected). Just in terms of common sense, being disgraced and a subject of contempt does not by any means prove conscious existence.

Furthermore, consider the significance of Isaiah 66:24:

And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh” (KJV).

At first, it may not be apparent why I quoted this passage. But this passage sheds light on Daniel 12:2 once we understand the Hebrew behind the word for “an abhorring.” The Hebrew term deraon, translated “an abhorring” in Isaiah 66:24, is the same word translated as “contempt” in Daniel 12:2. Isaiah 66:24 is also the only other passage in the Old Testament that uses this term. For this reason, we can look at Isaiah for some guidance as to what the term means and how it applies to Isaiah.

Isaiah uses the same rare Hebrew term that Daniel does to describe what is often translated in English as “contempt.” It is assumed in the case of Daniel that the “contempt” is an emotion that conscious, living people are experiencing in hell. But notice that Isaiah says that carcasses, dead bodies, are what will be loathsome or abhorrent. How conscious is a dead body? How much shame can a dead body feel? None, obviously. These corpses are an abhorrence, i.e. they are subject to contempt, because even though they have no conscious existence, other beings that do have conscious existence abhor them.

2. Explaining Matthew 25:46:

See my explanation in post #132 here within this thread.​

Source used in this post:
(Please take note that I do not agree with everything this Christian author believes, says, or does):
Daniel 12:2 Does Not Teach Eternal Torment | Rethinking Hell

 

[Bible Highlighter]

3. Explaining Mark 9:44:

“Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.” (Mark 9:44).

In Mark 9:44, and Mark 9:48, Jesus quotes Isaiah 66:24, which is a part of Scripture where Isaiah tells us about how the carcases of the wicked will be viewed by those who worship the Lord (i.e. the saints) (see Isaiah 66:23); This event takes place in the future “New Earth” in God’s upcoming kingdom (see Isaiah 66:22).

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make,
shall remain before me, saith the Lord,
so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,
and from one sabbath to another,
shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look
upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me:
for their worm shall not die,
neither shall their fire be quenched;
and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
(Isaiah 66:22-24).


Okay. Let's go over this passage in more detail. So Isaiah says that “they (referring to the ‘all flesh’ mentioned in Isaiah 66:23) shall go forth, and look upon the CARCASES (not ‘immortal living souls’) of the men that have transgressed against me: for their WORM (the maggot that feeds on those ‘carcases’) shall not die, neither shall their fire (the fire that burns up those ‘carcases’) be quenched: and they (the people that have transgressed against God) shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”

Webster’s 1913 Dictionary:

Carcass

1. n. A dead body, whether of man or beast; a corpse;


If we are to believe words in our own dictionary, we must believe that when Isaiah 66:24 talks about carcases, he is simply referring to dead bodies or corpses, and not immortal souls.

Okay. So when Jesus talks about the fire not being quenched, and the worm not dying in Mark 9:44, and Mark 9:48, He is not referring to anything other than what the passage in Isaiah 66 itself taught. So Mark 9:44, & Mark 9:48 must mean the same thing that Isaiah 66:24 means. The idea of the “never-dying worm” is a symbol for the fact that as long as there is a dead body to be chewed on, there will always be a worm to do the chewing – not that any individual worm is immortal. It is not saying that the fire that cannot be quenched will always go on forever even after the carcases are gone. Fires consume and burn up things, including carcases.

Anyways, the human being in this picture (within Isaiah 66:22-24) is most definitely DEAD, and not alive. “Carcases” don’t suffer pain, and they aren’t aware that worms are eating them; and, after they have been in fires for a while, they burn up, and they don’t exist anymore. So their worm dies not, and their fire is not quenched until they serve their purpose in consuming their carcases entirely until they are no more. If these wicked men and women were still alive in the flames screaming, and they would continue on for all eternity in the flames, and the saints were just checking in on them, clearly Isaiah would have painted a different picture for us by the use of other words to make that point clear (But he didn’t).

4. Explaining Revelation 14:11:

10 “The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”

First, the Bible tells us that the phrase "smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever" is a metaphorical phrase from Isaiah 34:10 which says that the smoke of Edom went up forever and ever. Are we to assume that the city of Edom will burn for all eternity? Mystery Babylon will also have her smoke go up for ever and ever (Revelation 19:3). Are we to assume that the city of Mystery Babylon will be on fire and give smoke for all eternity? Jesus says Heaven and earth will pass away (Matthew 24:35), and Revelation 21:1 says, “for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; “. So it’s not possible for these cities that are on our current Earth to keep putting off smoke for all eternity (if the Earth will pass away).

Second, I believe the words “and they have no rest day nor night” is switching back to the point in time within the Tribulation. In other words, verse 11 is saying that those who worship the beast will be destroyed like Edom was destroyed (using the Metaphor in Isaiah 34:10), and they will have no rest day or night while they are worshiping the beast within the time of the Great Tribulation. So Revelation 14:11 is not teaching Eternal Torment (Although somebody can easily conclude such an idea with a surface reading).

What am I talking about?

Well, here is my commentary on Revelation 14:9-11:

Revelation 14:9-11
9 “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, [Present tense time during the Tribulation period]
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever [Verse 10, and the beginning part here of verse 11 is a warning by the angel describing the future punishment of those who worship the beast. This temporary one-time punishment takes place after the judgment that is a singular event whereby they will eventually be destroyed] [Important Side Note: The “smoke of their torment going up forever” is the same as the cities of Edom, and Mystery Babylon; They will not last forever because the Earth will pass away as Jesus said]:

Revelation 14:11 (continued):

“…and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. [Present time during the Tribulation period which describes the earthly living state of those who worship the beast]”


Important Note:

The words in blue and red above in brackets is my commentary to the text.


Source used:
(Please take note that I do not agree with everything these Christian authors believe, say, or do; I am merely posting the source links to show that I quoted them at certain times for the point of my article):
Where the Worm That Never Dies — Mark 9:48 - Afterlife | Conditional Immortality

 

[Bible Highlighter]

5. Explaining Revelation 20:10:

“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” (Revelation 20:10).

First, the devil, the beast and the false prophet are demons. So even if one wanted to make this verse about eternal torment for faithless sinful mankind, the context in view here is in reference to demons and not wicked or faithless human beings.

Second, some suggest that the beast and the false prophet have been hanging down in the Lake of Fire for about 1,000 years before Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire (Suggesting that one remains alive while in the Lake of Fire for a very long time). While I do not discount the possibility that the beast and the false prophet may be alive down within the Lake of Fire, there is also the possibility that they are simply corpses by the time Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire, as well. How so? Well, Scripture can refer to the dead or the deceased with the word “are.” Isaiah says,

“They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.” (Isaiah 26:14).


Also, while God certainly may have many reasons to send Satan into the bottomless pit for 1,000 years before releasing him one last time at the end of the Millennium, why didn’t God just cast Satan into the Lake of Fire for 1,000 years along with the beast and the false prophet instead? Could it be that such a place is indeed a place of eventual destruction or annihilation? Fires in our real world teach us that they consume things.

But what about the part in Revelation 20:10 that says,

“the devil… shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever”


While I believe the KJV is the perfect Word of God for our day, and I prefer to simply look up words in older English dictionaries, I believe sometimes the original languages can on rare occasions give us a deeper and or expanded meaning.

The word “ever” repeated twice within Revelation 20:10 (in the KJV) is taken from the Greek word “aiōn.” According to Strong’s, this word is defined as a period or age (Which from our perspective can seem like an eternity).

In other words, Revelation 20:10 is saying that the devil, the beast, and the false prophet will be tormented day and night for... "ages, and ages."; Here are a few translations that express something similar:

"for the eons of the eons." ~ Concordant Literal New Testament
"for the ages of the ages." ~ Darby Bible Translation.
"for the aeons of the aeons." ~ The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson


In other words, Revelation 20:10 is saying the devil, the beast, and the false prophet will be tormented day and night for the purpose of the Ages and Ages (or the Ages of Ages). Meaning the Ages and Ages that are past! They are being punished day and night for the evil that they committed during the past Ages and Ages here on this Earth. Fair justice. For the word "for" can also be defined as "because" (i.e. the purpose of) within the English language.

Revelation 20:10 Darby

"And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] both the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for [the purpose of] the ages of ages."


For the devil, the beast, and the false prophet are all demons who have tormented mankind for ages and ages. So they will be cast into the Lake of Fire and brimstone and will be tormented day and night and not for all eternity.

So the "ages and ages" is talking about "past ages" and not "future ages."

This is further supported by the fact that Paul says the last enemy to be destroyed is death (1 Corinthians 15:26), which suggests that there were other enemies of God that the Lord destroyed before this last enemy. This then ties in nicely with Revelation 21:4 saying, "the former things have passed away." These former things that have passed away are: tears, sorrow, crying, death, and pain. For the first heaven and first earth will pass away and a new heaven and a new earth will take its place (Revelation 21:1). For Jesus says, "I make all things new." (Revelation 21:5).

Now, does this mean I do not believe the English words “for ever, and ever” in my King James Bible? Perish the thought. Most certainly not! I believe the Word of God.

I believe the devil will be tormented day and night for ever, and ever, but this is only within the context for as long as the Lake of Fire exists and it is only in context to how long the devil will exist as a conscious active being. Remember Philemon 1:15? Did Onesimus return to his master Philemon for all eternity or forever? Is Onesimus and Philemon still alive today? No, of course not. Onesimus returned forever to Philemon in context to while they were both alive on the Earth alone.

Furthermore, if we were to look again at Revelation 14:11 it says the smoke of their torment ascends for ever, and ever. Smoke of torment ascending for ever and ever” is a metaphorical phrase from Isaiah 34:10 that says,

“It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.” (Isaiah 34:10).


Notice the words "night nor day shall not be quenched” in the verse.

Surely the smoke of the city of Edom will not go up for all eternity because Jesus says Heaven and Earth will pass away (Matthew 24:35) and Revelation 21:1 says, “the first heaven and the first earth were passed away.” You cannot have eternal cities burning forever on a planet that passes away. It doesn’t make any sense. So this lets us know that the words "for ever and ever" and “night and day” is in reference to the language for destruction. This is how I believe that we are to interpret Scripture. We interpret Scripture with Scripture (Isaiah 28:10) (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11). If we are to be consistent with how biblical language is used. When in reference to punishment, the words “for ever and ever" is in reference to destruction from Isaiah 34:10. That is how these words are described and setting the tone of how we should understand these phrases or words. Yes, Scripture says in Revelation how God lives for ever and ever, but this is not in context to punishment but to God. Take for example the word "know" in the Bible. It can mean "having knowledge" like in Genesis 3:5. But used in another context, it can refer to physical intimacy like in Genesis 19:5. The dictionary has several definitions for the word "ever." Besides the word "ever" meaning eternal, it also defines the word "ever" in this way, as well.

Ever:
(adverb):

To a great extent or degree.


Dictionary Source:
Ever dictionary definition | ever defined

So while this may not be 100% biblical fact, it may possibly mean in Revelation 20:10 as saying,

“...shall be tormented day and night for ever [a great extent] and ever [degree].”


Also, the beast and the false prophets are demons in Revelation 20:10, and not wicked men. The false prophet in Revelation 16:13-14 is implied to be the one who is the second beast who rose up out of the earth (Revelation 13:11-15). So even if one wanted to take the words for ever and ever literally in Revelation 20:10, it is referring to demons and not wicked humans.

1 Corinthians 15:26 says,
“The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”


If we believe the last enemy to be destroyed is death, this strongly implies that there are other previous enemies of God who will also be destroyed, as well.

This is EXACTLY what we see described of the devil in Ezekiel 28.
“By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.” (Ezekiel 28:16).

 

[robert derrick]

My brother, I think it's good that we discuss scripture and that we yearn to understand it. But let's not become hostile to our brothers and sisters here. Let's remain brothers and sisters in Christ.

Since correction is hostile to you, then just admit you're not 'yearning' to understand anything, and only talk with those agreeing with you.

Sound correction is how we learn to divide knowledge of the truth from our own vain imagination.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If you're just playing around when you post, then say so, and no one will bother correcting you.

 

[keithr]

Interesting to note that Jesus was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth? (the realm of the dead)

Barnes Notes says:

In the heart of the earth - The Jews used the word “heart” to denote the “interior” of a thing, or to speak of being in a thing. It means, here, to be in the grave or sepulchre.​

 

[Johann]

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Amen Jesus!

Yes Jack--I concur--but preach the whole salvation in Christ and the Pauline letters.
J.

 

[keithr]

Those who reject eternal Hell fire reject the Christian Bible.

Revelation 20
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14 (WEB):

(14) Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.​

 

[Johann]

Barnes Notes says:

In the heart of the earth - The Jews used the word “heart” to denote the “interior” of a thing, or to speak of being in a thing. It means, here, to be in the grave or sepulchre.​

Also Bullinger--

the heart of the earth = in the earth: i.e. the sepulchre, or tomb, Mat_27:60. Mar_15:46. Luk_23:53. Joh_19:40. Act_13:29. It is the Figure of speech Pleonasm (a Hebraism), = the midst, or "in". See Exo_15:8. Psa_46:2. 2Sa_18:14. Deu_4:11. In any case it is not "the centre", any more than the heart is in the centre of the body, instead of near the top.

We are to conclude that the Lord establishes "the literal validity of the history of Jonah", inasmuch as He spoke "not His own words but only words of the Father" (see Joh_7:16; Joh_8:28, Joh_8:46, Joh_8:47; Joh_12:49; Joh_14:10, Joh_14:24; Joh_17:8); so that the assertions of modern critics are perilously near blasphemy against God Himself