Why Do You Go/or not go to Church?

[Pearl]

See post 135, please; this was the context.

My blog on fasting is nothing to do with Lent.

 

[Stan B]

I go to church (when I can, which isn't always possible) to hear the Word preached and to be among a body of believers. I study the Bible on my own but God gives some the gift of teaching.

I like the old-time hymns much better than contemporary music also. I actually don't like a lot of music - I find it annoying when we're told to stand, to sit etc. I'm lucky I make it and I'd rather spend time hearing the Word.

Sovereign, At age 77 I can identify with most of what you are saying. My wife and I always attended church together until she got cancer and died 4 years ago. The church we attended for many years, chose to toss their organ in the trash, and replace it with trash, i.e. geetars, drums and 7-11 'music' (7 words repeated over and over 11 times). So, I wanted to attend a church where they still sang real hymns accompanied by the organ. My wife wanted to stay there, but offered an irresistible compromise. Since I had studied classical organ for a number of years, about 50 years ago. So I had a magnificent custom built 3 manual digital church organ built for my home. After a year with geetars. no Christmas Carols, no Easter hymns, she agreed, it was time to move on.

After my wife died, I joined my family at a church out of town. 'Music' was the same new 7-11 garbage which dragged on for 40 minutes!! And like with your experience, we had to stand for the entire 40 minutes, which in addition to a shallow sermon, had me leaving with little more than an agonizing backache. But at least I got a free meal with my family after the service.

Typical of Pentecostal churches I have encountered in the area, the minister held the inspiration of Scripture in very low regard. When he encountered a passage of Scripture that disagreed with his cult ideology, he would say "God really didn't mean to say that" and then went on to tell us what God REALLY meant to say, sort of like, "If God hadn't hadn't drunk when he said that" this is what he would have said!! Duh!

He was a liar and slanderer, who used lies and slander against other people to get his way with the board. I was blocked from all the church websites, and virtually banned from the church for challenging his heresy. So basically he chased me out of the church. And when he was finished with me, he chased out all of the other prominent respected members of the church, oblivious to the fact that we were the ones who actually supported the church and paid his salary. Having chased away all the money, he was forced to resign because there was no money left to pay his salary.

The other Pentecostal pastor in our area, who has a congregation of 1500, recently preached a series of 31 sermons on the Book of Revelation. As a non-believing preterist, he had torn out one page after another from Revelation, in addition to consigning Ezekiel to the same garbage bin. I have no interest in attending a 'church' like that.

But as I get older, so are all the others in the church. I hear them say Hi Stan! but I don't have a clue who they are. It works both ways. When I say Hi to someone, they give me a blank stare, because they no longer remember who I am. :-)

Getting old is lots fun! :-)

 

[Stan B]

Songs that have you at the centre but make out they are praising God is another sleight of hand the enemy uses for men to glorify themselves. I have found the larger majority of modern christian songs come into this category along with the rock'nroll type bands that play it....even in the Church.

Consider the modern lyrics against 'A mighty fortress is our God' and I'll just about bet that those who prefer the former have come for entertainment which they call worship.

The hymns of old often contained a profound sermon of truth. These days, the Gaithers still have an important message in each of their songs, but the present day 7-11 junk often does little more than repeat the same word over and over. And unlike real hymns, the tune would play in your head all day long, whereas the modern stuff, besides having no message, they have no tune. I have never had stuff play in my head.

 

[shnarkle]

Sovereign, At age 77 I can identify with most of what you are saying. My wife and I always attended church together until she got cancer and died 4 years ago. The church we attended for many years, chose to toss their organ in the trash, and replace it with trash, i.e. geetars, drums and 7-11 'music' (7 words repeated over and over 11 times). So, I wanted to attend a church where they still sang real hymns accompanied by the organ. My wife wanted to stay there, but offered an irresistible compromise. Since I had studied classical organ for a number of years, about 50 years ago. So I had a magnificent custom built 3 manual digital church organ built for my home. After a year with geetars. no Christmas Carols, no Easter hymns, she agreed, it was time to move on.

After my wife died, I joined my family at a church out of town. 'Music' was the same new 7-11 garbage which dragged on for 40 minutes!! And like with your experience, we had to stand for the entire 40 minutes, which in addition to a shallow sermon, had me leaving with little more than an agonizing backache. But at least I got a free meal with my family after the service.

Typical of Pentecostal churches I have encountered in the area, the minister held the inspiration of Scripture in very low regard. When he encountered a passage of Scripture that disagreed with his cult ideology, he would say "God really didn't mean to say that" and then went on to tell us what God REALLY meant to say, sort of like, "If God hadn't hadn't drunk when he said that" this is what he would have said!! Duh!

He was a liar and slanderer, who used lies and slander against other people to get his way with the board. I was blocked from all the church websites, and virtually banned from the church for challenging his heresy. So basically he chased me out of the church. And when he was finished with me, he chased out all of the other prominent respected members of the church, oblivious to the fact that we were the ones who actually supported the church and paid his salary. Having chased away all the money, he was forced to resign because there was no money left to pay his salary.

The other Pentecostal pastor in our area, who has a congregation of 1500, recently preached a series of 31 sermons on the Book of Revelation. As a non-believing preterist, he had torn out one page after another from Revelation, in addition to consigning Ezekiel to the same garbage bin. I have no interest in attending a 'church' like that.

But as I get older, so are all the others in the church. I hear them say Hi Stan! but I don't have a clue who they are. It works both ways. When I say Hi to someone, they give me a blank stare, because they no longer remember who I am. :)

Getting old is lots fun! :)

I can relate to what both you and quiethinker are saying. I used to play piano/keyboards in a non-denominational Pentecostal church. I was never Pentecostal, but the pay was good so I played my heart out for those people while they flopped around on the ground and foamed at the mouth. I've seen more decorum at Heavy Metal concerts.

The thing is that I was played a lot of different types of music over the years, and what I've discovered is that most of what passes for "contemporary" music these days isn't the hip, slick and cool soft rock that these young people think it is; they're literally playing dirges. Listen to dirges for a few hours and then listen to anything on the contemporary Christian music stations. You'll see what I mean.

This may sound hypocritical, but there are some churches that can put on a pretty good show. I would put some of them up there with a good Vegas stage show. In other words, I go for the entertainment value. This may seem crazy to some, but if you think about it, I'm not going to these churches to be edified in the word, although that can happen on very rare occasions. I go to my church to be edified, and I go to all the other churches for the quality of their shows. In other words, they're not really churches so I'm not pretending that they are either. That doesn't make me a hypocrite. It just shows I'm not blind to reality.

Oh, and if you want to see the show while everyone is standing, I just sit up front so no one is blocking my view of the spectacle.

 

[DoveSpirit05]

I hear you man I've had some rough experiences with the so called "church building" to. I grew up catholic and even served as an altar boy, I myself got kicked out of the church when I was down and having some real oppression, the time when the church is really supposed 2 come 2 ur aid and pick up the pieces just like jesus did right!! And now I know how corrupt and even demonic they are. When the world forsakes u God will be there for you!

don't worry bout it, the real church is the body of Christ, and tho's who are taking the gospel out into the streets, to the highways and by ways, and going after the lost sheep, like jesus said where 2 people are dat mention my name there shall I be. The church building is now just a religious cave if at dat.

 

[Pearl]

As Jesus approached Jericho, a blind man was sitting by the roadside begging. When he heard the crowd going by, he asked what was happening. They told him, “Jesus of Nazareth is passing by.
Luke 18:35-37

The crowds of people that followed Jesus made a noise as they passed by but I think sadly the followers of Jesus today don't make enough noise about him. And the Church is more concerned with itself than it is with the unsaved and suffering. Jesus did preach in temple buildings but he also took his love and teachings to the people on the streets; to sinners and to the sick. I so wish the Church was like that today. Some parts of it may be but most isn't.

 

[shnarkle]

As Jesus approached Jericho, a blind man was sitting by the roadside begging. When he heard the crowd going by, he asked what was happening. They told him, “Jesus of Nazareth is passing by.
Luke 18:35-37

The crowds of people that followed Jesus made a noise as they passed by but I think sadly the followers of Jesus today don't make enough noise about him. And the Church is more concerned with itself than it is with the unsaved and suffering. Jesus did preach in temple buildings but he also took his love and teachings to the people on the streets; to sinners and to the sick. I so wish the Church was like that today. Some parts of it may be but most isn't.

It seems to be the message of the gospels. Jesus teaches in the temple grounds, but it the religious leaders who confront him, and eventually have him killed, whereas once he gets outside the temple, he's among the common man who is much more qualified to see that they have nothing to lose by believing what Jesus is saying. G.K. Chesterton says something similar about the common man as well.

In the end, it's the know-it-alls that never seem to get it.

 

[Pearl]

It seems to be the message of the gospels. Jesus teaches in the temple grounds, but it the religious leaders who confront him, and eventually have him killed, whereas once he gets outside the temple, he's among the common man who is much more qualified to see that they have nothing to lose by believing what Jesus is saying. G.K. Chesterton says something similar about the common man as well.

In the end, it's the know-it-alls that never seem to get it.

Absolutely true. Many people who go to church all their lives simply don't take on board the gospel message even though they may have heard it umpteen times. It's sad.

 

[shnarkle]

Absolutely true. Many people who go to church all their lives simply don't take on board the gospel message even though they may have heard it umpteen times. It's sad.

There's a wonderful story in a book by Billy Graham's grandson which tells of a pastor who after tending to his flock for over 15 years, suddenly during a sermon, announces to his congregation that he has just been saved. He finally received the gospel message while he was preaching the gospel message himself.

Plenty of people understand the gospel, but very few are able to receive it.

 

[quietthinker]

Absolutely true. Many people who go to church all their lives simply don't take on board the gospel message even though they may have heard it umpteen times. It's sad.

I find the expressions 'some people' or 'many people' curious.

 

[Stan B]

I can relate to what both you and quiethinker are saying. I used to play piano/keyboards in a non-denominational Pentecostal church. I was never Pentecostal, but the pay was good so I played my heart out for those people while they flopped around on the ground and foamed at the mouth. I've seen more decorum at Heavy Metal concerts.

The thing is that I was played a lot of different types of music over the years, and what I've discovered is that most of what passes for "contemporary" music these days isn't the hip, slick and cool soft rock that these young people think it is; they're literally playing dirges. Listen to dirges for a few hours and then listen to anything on the contemporary Christian music stations. You'll see what I mean.

This may sound hypocritical, but there are some churches that can put on a pretty good show. I would put some of them up there with a good Vegas stage show. In other words, I go for the entertainment value. This may seem crazy to some, but if you think about it, I'm not going to these churches to be edified in the word, although that can happen on very rare occasions. I go to my church to be edified, and I go to all the other churches for the quality of their shows. In other words, they're not really churches so I'm not pretending that they are either. That doesn't make me a hypocrite. It just shows I'm not blind to reality.

Oh, and if you want to see the show while everyone is standing, I just sit up front so no one is blocking my view of the spectacle.

shnarkle, Although I have attended Pentecostal churches, I am not a Pentecostal either. I remember my first experience with a full blown holy roller Pentecostal church with my father when I was 6 years old. It was a total nuthouse! I asked my father if they were all drunk! Pentecostals tend to be into signs and wonders much like the occult. But we "we walk by faith, not by sight" 2 Corinthians 5:7

 

[Pearl]

There's a wonderful story in a book by Billy Graham's grandson which tells of a pastor who after tending to his flock for over 15 years, suddenly during a sermon, announces to his congregation that he has just been saved. He finally received the gospel message while he was preaching the gospel message himself.

Plenty of people understand the gospel, but very few are able to receive it.

I read somewhere that the same thing happened with John Wesley. He had been preaching it for years before he finally 'got' it himself. For all my own life till I was 35 I thought I was a Christian because I believed in God and went to church. Then my eyes were truly opened and I 'saw the light' as they say.

 

[Pearl]

I find the expressions 'some people' or 'many people' curious.

Why?

 

[Stan B]

I read somewhere that the same thing happened with John Wesley. He had been preaching it for years before he finally 'got' it himself. For all my own life till I was 35 I thought I was a Christian because I believed in God and went to church. Then my eyes were truly opened and I 'saw the light' as they say.

John Wesley played an important role in my family history. I come from a group of hundreds of Palatines who fled Germany in 1709, and set up colonies in south Ireland in 1709. The Lutheran religion was as evil and anti-semitic as it is today with it's BDS hatred. So basically a totally dead religion which was evidenced in their society.

In 1750, John Wesely came to the colony and preached a Gospel they had never heard before. They accepted the life-altering truth. My family was amongst the group who came to the US and built the first Methodist Church in North America on John Street New York. That church was dedicated in 1786. From there they went on to build many other Methodist churches in the US and Canada.

 

[shnarkle]

shnarkle, Although I have attended Pentecostal churches, I am not a Pentecostal either. I remember my first experience with a full blown holy roller Pentecostal church with my father when I was 6 years old. It was a total nuthouse! I asked my father if they were all drunk! Pentecostals tend to be into signs and wonders much like the occult. But we "we walk by faith, not by sight" 2 Corinthians 5:7

They are no different than a drug addict. I spent years at that church, and watched people resorting to more drastic forms of "being slain in the Spirit" until they simply burned out. They all start out "talking in tongues" accompanied by sweaty palms, foreheads, some mild tremors sometimes etc. Then that's not enough of a high. They start to tremble more, jump, flop, bounce, fall down, spin around on the ground, knock over chairs, tables, etc. Some get to a point where they're taking laps around the church and climbing the flag pole. At some point they plateau, and can't get any further, and they're forced to return to just speaking in tongues as if they're having some mundane conversation.

It is striking to note that there is always an invitation/induction before people start speaking in tongues. It is no different than what you see from a hypnotist. I spent years studying literature, and discovered that poems like the Iliad and the Odyssey were originally recited in their entirety by memory. I have also see people spontaneously break out in English heroic verse, and continue to speak like this for hours on end. One was a schizophrenic, and the other one was on LSD. Both were able to tap into the signals on one side of their brain that have this meter, and simply plug in coherent speech. It is truly amazing, and makes speaking in "tongues" tediously boring by comparison.

The breakdown of the bicameral mind took place somewhere around 2500 BC. Prior to that people were effectively unconscious, but they had the benefit of being able to "talk to the gods". After this breakdown occurred it became increasingly more difficult to hear what the gods were saying. All sorts of things were tried to reconnect; everything from drugs to a good wack on the side of the head.

Today, hypnotists are able to reconnect them in those who still have those pathways, drugs are also effective and if you've ever heard voices, chances are it's nothing more than one side of the brain talking to the other side.

I enjoyed playing piano at those services because it was a free-for-all, and I could experiment with different chord progressions that would normally be frowned upon during the rest of the service. It wasn't all that different from something you might see at a Grateful Dead show.

 

[Stan B]

There's a wonderful story in a book by Billy Graham's grandson which tells of a pastor who after tending to his flock for over 15 years, suddenly during a sermon, announces to his congregation that he has just been saved. He finally received the gospel message while he was preaching the gospel message himself.

Plenty of people understand the gospel, but very few are able to receive it.

Whatever!! I wouldn't believe anything Tullian Tchividjian says. He has lived as a true servant of Satan, creating mass destruction within the church, wherever he went. He has been deemed by the Presbyterian Church, amongst others to be "unfit for ministry".

 

[shnarkle]

Whatever!! I wouldn't believe anything Tullian Tchividjian says. He has lived as a true servant of Satan, creating mass destruction within the church, wherever he went. He has been deemed by the Presbyterian Church, amongst others to be "unfit for ministry".

It wasn't a story he made up. The stories were all footnoted from other sources. The book was written long before any of that drama occurred. The PCA bought up loads of those books, and had no problem using them up until his personal life fell apart.

I don't think people have a clue what it's like to pastor a church. It's like being a celebrity. Within the church, they basically are a celebrity. I find this is particularly prevalent among the PCA churches. The PCA is very good about training their would be pastors in how to attract people to the message, through eye contact, body language, etc. They teach them how to be charismatic at the pulpit.

From time to time, I attend the local PCA church, and it isn't uncommon to see people bragging about some conversation they had with the pastor. It's strange, but not surprising. Sometimes all that attention can go to a guy's head. I don't know the whole story, but what I little I do know, his wife began having an affair, and eventually got caught so she left him. So then he's the charismatic pastor who's wife just left him, and the rest of the women in the congregation all want to be his replacement wife because he's always looked like he has his life together.

That's probably the biggest problem. They learn how to look like they have it all together, which is attractive. They have a polished presentation, and it throws people completely off when a blemish appears.

 

[quietthinker]

Why?

It appears like a decoy which points the finger at others without owning ones own shortcomings.

 

[Pearl]

It appears like a decoy which points the finger at others without owning ones own shortcomings.

Oh, ok.

 

[Marymog]

I have been going through a searching series called "Have You Forgotten the Why?" Basically why we go to church. I have been a bit torn lately and unsure if Ive made the best decision just going to this new church for now.

His teaching has been that we go to church for the Word of God/to renew our minds, so that we can stand strong against the enemy. I completely agree with this. And they are amazing teachers.

But I realize, like they don't have Sunday night service. And though I studied at home, still have felt a bit down. I guess it is because I've never missed. But I am just going to one for now.

So I am wondering if church is for more then just the Word. Otherwise, why go. Here are thoughts on top of my head.

We go to church for:

1. Accountability to remain walking in the Spirit

2. I want to say music, the Word of God is also sharing through the Worship and I am drawn more to hymns/Gospel type with some contemporary like my current church home rather then the band/newer songs I don't really know at the new church.

3. Doctrine- I think my main question in my mind is on the gifts of the Spirit and how important it is to go to a church that teaches and practices tongues as a prayer language, prophecy, words of wisdom/knowledge.

4. The church body-fellowship among believers/etc. It is hard to measure this after years at the my current one right now.

5. Where I can best serve God.

So why do you go to church? Is there a wrong answer if the church believes God's Word.

Hi Mayflower,

Where else would a Christian go to fulfill Luke 22:19?

Mary