Why are Bible scholars leaving Christianity?

[Rockerduck]

I don't condemn anyone who wants to leave the church or Christianity . I do criticize those who want to publicly. I watched two videos all the way through. Never heard them mention the Holy Spirit.. I heard my Lord Jesus, but not Jesus Christ my savior. All the words from the power of the Holy Spirit is what Christians I know talk about. Dr. Miller recalled his conversion, but not the joy and burst of the Holy Spirit; he sounded like a Methodist who "decided" to be a Christian, then to go into college studies and logically deduct reasoning and ended up in Greek myology instead, talking about Romulus.

 

[Wrangler]

I don't condemn anyone who wants to leave the church or Christianity . I do criticize those who want to publicly. I watched two videos all the way through. Never heard them mention the Holy Spirit.. I heard my Lord Jesus, but not Jesus Christ my savior. All the words from the power of the Holy Spirit is what Christians I know talk about. Dr. Miller recalled his conversion, but not the joy and burst of the Holy Spirit; he sounded like a Methodist who "decided" to be a Christian, then to go into college studies and logically deduct reasoning and ended up in Greek myology instead, talking about Romulus.

It's a good point; comparing Biblical scholars to Pharisees of old, who know about God but do not KNOW him.

A personal relationship is emotional, not purely intellectual.

 

[St. SteVen]

'the spirit' trip is problematic. The great emphasis on spirit and born again is for one, too opaque and and two, self focused.
The Spirit never focuses on itself, it is a witness to Jesus whom he points to. The constant talk of 'the spirit, the spirit' is not the spirit of Jesus. No wonder many who labour 'the spirit, the spirit' drop out.

Interesting perspective, and GREAT post, thanks.
"... too opaque and and two, self focused." Wow. Such an interesting observation.
Could you unpack the term "opaque" a bit more, as it relates to "emphasis on spirit and born again"?
Do you see a lack of transparency? Is that what you mean?

Being born again is the description, the fruit of which manifests in values aligned with God's character. Born again is not a formula which one prattles on about as if one is saying something about anything, it's become part of the religious bag of jargon. When one is born again it manifests in ones reality; what and who one witnesses to.

Ooo... yes.
"... the fruit of which manifests in values aligned with God's character."
If these folks that leave the church are STILL manifesting the fruit of the Spirit, what should we conclude?
I forget the passage, but Jesus spoke about those who said they would, but didn't, and those who said they wouldn't but did.
Which one was obedient? (righteous) The acts OUTWEIGH the confession.

I know atheists that are more Christian than we are. (ouch)

My experience is that those who are constantly on about the spirit and born again do not know the resurrected Jesus. Another Jesus has them online.......I would guess a counterfeit one.

Perhaps this is the BIGGEST problem with scholars leaving Christianity. (the faith)
All the study brings them to the conclusion that they should leave "Christ".
But the "Christ" they know is the one that the church and history gave them.
The focus should have been on the indwelling Christ.

Will the REAL Jesus stand up and show himself?

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't condemn anyone who wants to leave the church or Christianity . I do criticize those who want to publicly. I watched two videos all the way through. Never heard them mention the Holy Spirit.. I heard my Lord Jesus, but not Jesus Christ my savior. All the words from the power of the Holy Spirit is what Christians I know talk about. Dr. Miller recalled his conversion, but not the joy and burst of the Holy Spirit; he sounded like a Methodist who "decided" to be a Christian, then to go into college studies and logically deduct reasoning and ended up in Greek myology instead, talking about Romulus.

Not everyone has an EXPLOSIVE encounter with Christ. There's a whole spectrum of experiences.
Were you struck down on the road to Damascus like Saul?

My conversion was sort of dramatic, my wife's experience was gradual and subtle.
And what would be the norm for a Methodist conversion?
Might depend on the individual church.

 

[amigo de christo]

One can have ALL the credentials the world has to offer, in any field of study, and also can be proficient in quoting from Genesis1:1 to the last amen in Revelations , this does not make ANY righteous.

Only those who have been born from above by the Spirit of God are saved. This comes only by a contrite heart and a broken spirit, calling out to God; O' Lord wretched man that I am, save me, a sinner !

Many people today are so selfish and puffed-up with their own importance to even recognize the God of all creation, even in so called Christendom !

Most scholars i know learned by carnal wisdom and intellect .
They were filled plumb full of a spirit that glorified self . THAT AINT THE HOLY SPIRIT .
The HOLY SPIRIT GLORIFIES CHRIST JESUS , not self , not man .
Since we are on that subject i seem to notice another spirit fast at work today .
This spirit makes man the great thing . It says YE ARE GREAT , YE ARE AMAZING , ye are gods
YE can do anything , have anything ye desire , Just align yourself in Christ alignment .
Rather odd it uses the name of Christ but sure seems to exalt man .
SEE the SPIRIT of GOD will GLORIFY THE SON , WHO GLORIFIES THE FATHER .
But this other spirit , well it glorifies another and feeds man his own carnal desires .
YE SHALL BE AS ..........................................now i just wonder who did that in the garden .
AND WHO DID IT IN heaven when he became enamoured with the gifts and HIMSELF . SAME PATTERN at work today
and many are calling it holy . We do have many problems .
The SPIRIT of GOD would Humble man , not try and make man think himself SOME GREAT THING , some mighty power .
But the other spirit of darkness , WELL it does . YE can BE ...................ITS IN YOU
The divine spark , etc and etc . ITS ALL the works of darkness and it is leading folks into exaltation OF SELF .

 

[Wrangler]

The great emphasis on spirit and born again is for one, too opaque and and two, self focused.

Another out from left field post. The topic of conversation in this thread is self - the individual Biblical scholars who leave Christ (Christianity). They do so not from sinful action but an intellectual, individual self.

Regarding the Spirit being opaque; some things are just going to be above our pay grade while we inhabit this mortal coil.

 

[amigo de christo]

And now a word from THE JESUS CHRIST of the bible when he saw
his own rejoicing IN THE POWER .
Behold i saw satan as lightning FALL from heaven . I have given thee POWER
to tread down scorpions and nothing by any means shall hurt you . NEVER THE LESS
in this REJOICE NOT , REJOICE rather that your names are wrote above .
BEWARE o churches . BEWARE . For many boast in the power as though they are THE POWER
of GOD . Satan was given great gifts too , And he too became ENAMORED with the gifts and SAW HIMSELF as the GREAT THING .
Beware churches . Beware .

 

[MatthewG]

Pride is also an issue, as well.

Can't rule that out.

That is why God is not willingly that any should perish but all should come to repentance, but when that is could be in this life, could be in the next life going through the lake of fire that burns it out.

Don't know but that is the hope. There is no one saved directly to the Kingdom of God - inside without Christ Jesus as their clothing, as the Master shares.

Matthew 22​

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New Living Translation​

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Parable of the Great Feast​

22 Jesus also told them other parables. He said, 2 “The Kingdom of Heaven can be illustrated by the story of a king who prepared a great wedding feast for his son. 3 When the banquet was ready, he sent his servants to notify those who were invited. But they all refused to come!
4 “So he sent other servants to tell them, ‘The feast has been prepared. The bulls and fattened cattle have been killed, and everything is ready. Come to the banquet!’ 5 But the guests he had invited ignored them and went their own way, one to his farm, another to his business. 6 Others seized his messengers and insulted them and killed them.
7 “The king was furious, and he sent out his army to destroy the murderers and burn their town. 8 And he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, and the guests I invited aren’t worthy of the honor. 9 Now go out to the street corners and invite everyone you see.’ 10 So the servants brought in everyone they could find, good and bad alike, and the banquet hall was filled with guests.
11 “But when the king came in to meet the guests, he noticed a man who wasn’t wearing the proper clothes for a wedding. 12 ‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how is it that you are here without wedding clothes?’ But the man had no reply. 13 Then the king said to his aides, ‘Bind his hands and feet and throw him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”​

 

[amigo de christo]

Another out from left field post. The topic of conversation in this thread is self - the individual Biblical scholars who leave Christ (Christianity). They do so not from sinful action but an intellectual, individual self.

Regarding the Spirit being opaque; some things are just going to be above our pay grade while we inhabit this mortal coil.

Never heed stephen furtick or the likes of those who preach and do as they do .

 

[amigo de christo]

Pride is also an issue, as well.

Can't rule that out.

Rebellion . Pride is rebellion . To rebel against What GOD has said , what CHRIST has said .
That is pride . To exalt self , IS pride .
Walk lowly and humble , love GOD , CHRIST above all then your neighbor as yourself .
We aint the great THING . We are but sinners saved and changed by the Grace of GOD given us in Christ JESUS .
JESUS didnt put on a golden crown and ride in a high chariot , eating better and dressing better
than even his own . He actually WORE a crown of thorns .
Let that sink in a bit the next time one comes hollering , YE THE GREAT THING , YE Are the AMAZING ONE .
FOR IF JESUS humbled himself , WHO THE HECK ARE WE TO WALK as though we are BETTER THAN HE .
HE WHO was BEFORE ALL and by HIM were all things created . Yeah i say the servant is not greater than HIS MASTER .

 

[MatthewG]

I don't condemn anyone who wants to leave the church or Christianity . I do criticize those who want to publicly. I watched two videos all the way through. Never heard them mention the Holy Spirit.. I heard my Lord Jesus, but not Jesus Christ my savior. All the words from the power of the Holy Spirit is what Christians I know talk about. Dr. Miller recalled his conversion, but not the joy and burst of the Holy Spirit; he sounded like a Methodist who "decided" to be a Christian, then to go into college studies and logically deduct reasoning and ended up in Greek myology instead, talking about Romulus.

No one should condemn any person what so ever, sometimes I believe it's okay to let people go, and allow them to do their own thing though, just as God had done. Still love them, of course however condemning them is something for God himself to do, and that is not for human beings to do.

(Jesus openly taught there is a resurrection of condemnation, and a resurrection of life.)

God knows who is his, 2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

While wickedness resides in our flesh - one must turn from those desires if they so choose to - and to choose to allow Christ to come through, because that is the solid foundation which one stands.

Christians can struggle between the flesh and the spirit, cause Paul writes about explicitly.
Christians can open the door and let Jesus in and they sup together.
People can also ask Jesus to leave, and then while Jesus will come back and knock at the door, it's up tot them answer the door and let him back.

God gave us freewill, and he gave angels freewill.
Human beings can be prideful and not let God work on their heart.

No one deserves to be condemned - However Jesus was stern on the religious folks of his day, and sometimes those remnants of those practices, still take place, and people misuse the bible and only preach what may be told to be preach on and that is it, and take their pay cut.

People must be taught, and discipled under the guise of someone who is willingly to teach, and also express they hey maybe I am wrong, you go find out and search and seek but trust God and pray to him and he will help you if that is your hearts desires. Some things we just don't know.

(Generalization) It's always good to be humble - and remind yourself of the person you once where before Christ ever came in.

 

[Wrangler]

The constant talk of 'the spirit, the spirit' is not the spirit of Jesus.

More left-fieldism from you; Another A is not-A post. There is only one "the Spirit," by definition. (Gal 5:22 talks about the fruit of the Spirit, not the fruit of Jesus.)

Have you had an encounter with the Holy Spirit? Or is that too self focused? I have and reject the claim that there is 'constant talk' about it. My church often sings a song that goes, "He's the God of the Mountain. He's the God of the Valley." Few have mountain top experiences to relate to. Therefore, to meet people where they are, you got to focus on far more mundane things that most people struggle with, e.g., The Big 3:

1. Relationships
2. Finance
3. Health

My experience is that those who are constantly on about the spirit and born again do not know the resurrected Jesus.

I don't know what you know or have experienced but this thread is about Biblical scholars who left Christianity. Implied is that you suppose they left because they are alway going on about 'the spirit, the spirit' but the evidence in the vids is the opposite. Your posts remind me of these 2 cultural references.

 

[Wrangler]

No one should condemn any person what so ever

Juries should be abolished then, along with our entire system of justice?

 

[MatthewG]

Juries should be abolished then, along with our entire system of justice?

Court is different.

Paul talks about if you don't wanna get in trouble don't do bad things. Crimes, that have been caught up in to the legal system is something to thank God for.

However, even when they get to prison, - if they go to a bible study - guess what condemns them? It's the Word. Never should the word be used out of context though... In my opinion.

I realize people really hate homosexuals. so... I dont care if a person is homosexual or not, if they are willingly to sit down and read the bible with me im all about it.

Now if it a homosexual trying to get a 11 year old little boy, then yeah that does need to be addressed with the police invovled.

You gotta find a balance @Wrangler.

 

[St. SteVen]

... while we inhabit this mortal coil.

Coil? Like a snake? (yikes)

 

[Wrangler]

Court is different.

You gotta find a balance @Wrangler.

If there is a balance, then your statement is inaccurate, yes?

No one should condemn any person what so ever

The dividing line of condemning others, the balance is when you have AUTHORITY. In the Bible, we have authority over our subordinates, wife and children, public servants when we vote, etc. Many people do not have real AUTHORITY, so they project it falsely when they should not.

Having said all that, I'm not sure how all this connects to the OP? Being an authority on an intellectual pursuit is not the same as having authority over others, right? I do not condemn the lost for they have condemned themselves. I lament their leaving.

 

[MatthewG]

I disagree with that @Wrangler.

I see God as the only one in Authority. Save - Government.

No one has spiritual authority but God.

Take it or leave it but that is not an answer you would like to hear.


That is the choice for human beings - partake in the tree of life - or leave it all together and go to the tree of knowledge ofgood and evil.

Just like biblical scholars leaving christianity. Heavenly or Worldly, take your pick.

 

[Wrangler]

I disagree with that @Wrangler.

I see God as the only one in Authority. Save - Government.

Understood. You disagree but offer no basis for disagreement. "Government" is more than State power. God delegates authority. See 1 Cor 11:3.

The importance of condemning is central to having authority. When kids disobey parents, is your solution to call the State power government?

 

[MatthewG]

Understood. You disagree but offer no basis for disagreement. "Government" is more than State power. God delegates authority. See 1 Cor 11:3.

The importance of condemning is central to having authority. When kids disobey parents, is your solution to call the State power government?

No you should put them to death. This is the authority of God... by Law. (I am being facetious; and I believe if your a parent you decide what you will do: calling the law may be a way to get her/him to really pay attention to his life)

Deuteronomy 21:18-21​

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New International Version​

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A Rebellious Son​

18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.​

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus to the Pharisees and the Judizers I suppose was a rebellious son, @St. SteVen. Never a heretic.

Matthew 11:19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”

Thank you @Wrangler.

Praise be to Yahava, and the Lord Yeshua. We finally found an answer to that question.

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