Who is the Queen of Heaven.

[stephen64]

works of the law refers to the mosaic law which was fulfilled by Christ!

.

I do hope you are including the ten commandments in the above. For although you would ignore the post, I can very easily and happily will show from scripture Paul was insistent the believer has no righteousness of obeying the law/works of the law primarily BECAUSE of the ten commandments

 

[Truther]

the immaculate conception of Mary!
And the miraculous conception of Jesus!

so much for your sola scripture!

Bah humbug?

 

[Truther]

there are successors acts 1:26
Just as there were successors of Moses Matt 23:1

Sure, but not for doctrine changes

 

[Truther]

how if the church baptizes all men (and infants) in the command of Matt 28:19?

Ephesians 5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ..

who’s words do not pass away

Why reject the words Jesus Christ?
Why reject the word of God?
All for the sake ago a 16th century novelty and heresy of “faith alone”!
Or cos of you’re rejection of the divinity of Christ And the holy trinity!


Faith and baptism!

Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mk 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

Jn 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God

Acts 8:36-38

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Faith and baptism!

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture, inspired of God…

Scripture don’t say:

Jn 3:5 born by water and born again by the spirit?

But Jn 3:5 born again BY water AND the spirit!

Scripture don’t say:

Mk 16:16 he that believeth is saved and Should then be baptized?

But Mk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved!

The church was not commissioned to preach to and baptize infants

 

[Truther]

Jn 15:5 remain in Christ!
Keep his commandment

matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep mycommandments.

The command is to baptize in the name of the son, which you can’t figure out

 

[BreadOfLife]

In response to your bizarre statement that I used a NON-Catholic source to glean information about CATHOLIC truth -- of course. Why would I go to a Catholic source? That is akin to asking a propaganda source about God.
May I suggest that you take a course in literacy? Followed by a course that teaches God's truth.

Why? Because you are obviously both semiliterate and confused.

This has nothing to do with "asking about God."
We're only talking about the NAME of the Church - which YOU got wrong.

You're just angry and embarrassed that I exposed you publicly . . .

 

[user]

The command is to baptize in the name of the son, which you can’t figure out

They would have this to read.....

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ(Son) for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:14-16 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus(Son).

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus(Son).

Unfortunately, BreadOfDeath nor theefaith can own up to this, lest they be Excommunicado

 

[stephen64]

works of the law refers to the mosaic law which was fulfilled by Christ!

We have what is often termed ‘’the legalistic law’’ and the ‘’moral law’’ given at Sania. The legalistic laws were written in Leviticus.

Then you have what is known as the moral law/ten commandments.

In Jesus day, the Pharisees could faultlessly obey the legalistic law, they cleaned the outside of the cup. Paul himself said of his life as a Pharisee, that he faultlessly obeyed the legalistic law (Phil3:6 NIV 1984 edition) Therefore, when Paul relentlessly insisted you could have no righteousness of obeying the law, it had to be because of the moral law. He wrote:

For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness 2Cor3:6-9

Paul is speaking in the above of the law engraved in stone, which was of course the Ten Commandments/the moral law. Paul explains himself in Romans:

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,a]">[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:4-6

When Paul speaks of dying to the law, he means dying to righteousness of obeying the law(Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth Rom10:4) Then he makes a statement that when we were in our flesh, sinfull passions were aroused in us by the law. But by dying to what once bound us we are released from the law and serve in the new way of the Spirit, not the written code.

So which law is Paul referring to in the above? Well it cannot be the legalistic law, for he stated he could perfectly obey it, so sinfull passions were not aroused in him by that law. He now continues on, giving an explanation as to why he had to die to righteousness of obeying the law/works of the law. He had a lot of commandments to choose from, however:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived(or sin consciousness sprang to life), and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Verses7-11



So, before Saul the Pharisee made his commitment to God at the age of 13 I believe for a young Jewish lad, he felt alive, for there was no condemnation from the law, he would I am sure have been a normal healthy kid. But then as a young teenager he made that commitment, and knew he must obey the law. He must have been raised strictly for he became an ardent Pharisee. Before him stood the law, and the pinnacle of it was the ten commandments. These commands must be obeyed if he was to attain to Heaven and avoid hell.

So, knowing what those laws demanded he is faced with ‘’thou shalt not covet’’ Thou shalt not desire what is not yours to desire, though shalt not lust, thou shalt not have impure thoughts. Now imagine, what would happen if a young teenager was petrified of breaking the ten commandments as this could send them to hell? They must not lust, they must not have impure thoughts. Probably be afraid of them coming. It won’t be long before they are going to end up consummed by what they are afraid of, that’s human nature where the inside is concerned. I mean, if I said God would send you to hell if you thought of a pink rabbit, what is the first thought that would come into your head if you believed me? Thus, through the commandment thou shalt not covet all manner of concupiscence was aroused in Saul and he started to die/feel condemned. He wasn’t feeling so alive now. The commandment that was ordained to life, if he obeyed it, instead brought death/condemnation for he could not keep it. Hence verse 5 explained. Sinfull passions are aoused in us by the law if we live under it. NOT the legalistic law, for you could live under that and perfectly obey it, but rather the moral law

Of course, that only happened to Saul because he feared condemnation by breaking the law, so what happens if you remove the condemnation?

For sin/.breaking the law shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ Romans 6:14
Hence Paul's core message was:
Die to righteousness of obeying the law and sin shall not be your master. And Paul could testify to the truth of it

 

[theefaith]

What is the name of the son per Matt 28:19, if thou canst tell?

looks like son is ok with John and scripture

1 Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

father and the son! Really?

Baptism:

Matt 28:19

The holy church obeys the command Of Jesus!

Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ…

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing so remain in Christ!

Keep his commandment!

matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 Jn 2:5 But who so keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

His word: Matt 28:19

1 Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

 

[Jim B]

Matt 24:13 endures to the end.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

But if you insist on you’re 16th century novelty yes

If anyone says you can be justified by “faith alone” let him be anathema!

Scripture then condemns you!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema.

“Faith alone” avails NOTHING!

Do you have some Catholic software that spews out all these irrelevant, out-of-context verses? If not, I have a suggestion: get a life!

 

[Philip James]

irrelevant, out-of-context verses?

:

 

[Jim B]

:

Congratulations! You have been promoted to third grade!

 

[theefaith]

Well that's refreshing. A fellow catholic of yours refused to answer a question of mine repeatedly asked about catholicism because he said he and his church don't condemn people. Well done for giving your forthright belief. Im impressed. Its water off a ducks back to me though

it has the authority of Christ

what the church in council bunds on earth if bound by God in heaven Matt 16:18-19

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well until Christ returns in glory!

apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!

Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.


The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

 

[theefaith]

I do hope you are including the ten commandments in the above. For although you would ignore the post, I can very easily and happily will show from scripture Paul was insistent the believer has no righteousness of obeying the law/works of the law primarily BECAUSE of the ten commandments

the great commandment Deut 6:5
Then Ten Commandments are the eternal moral law yes we must obey

 

[stephen64]

the great commandment Deut 6:5
Then Ten Commandments are the eternal moral law yes we must obey

The chief reason Paul kept stressing you can have no righteousness of obeying the law was BECAUSE of the ten commandments. Has your church not taught you that? I thought you believed they were the arbiters of truth?

 

[Jim B]

the great commandment Deut 6:5
Then Ten Commandments are the eternal moral law yes we must obey

Is this what your priests have told you? If so, they (and you) are totally wrong.

I keep posting what Paul wrote over and over: "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God." Romans 7:4

And this: "But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code." Romans 7:6

Paul also wrote this to the church in Galatia: "But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 5:18

What is it about this that you can't (or won't) understand? If you are in Christ you are under grace, not under law!

What is your problem with accepting God's clear words about this? Why do you put yourself under the law? Do your Catholic priests tell you to do this?

Please answer the question! Don't parrot out-of-context, irrelevant verses over and over and over... For once be a human being and state your own thoughts!

 

[stephen64]

Is this what your priests have told you? If so, they (and you) are totally wrong.

I keep posting what Paul wrote over and over: "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God." Romans 7:4

And this: "But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code." Romans 7:6

Paul also wrote this to the church in Galatia: "But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 5:18

What is it about this that you can't (or won't) understand? If you are in Christ you are under grace, not under law!

What is your problem with accepting God's clear words about this? Why do you put yourself under the law? Do your Catholic priests tell you to do this?

Please answer the question! Don't parrot out-of-context, irrelevant verses over and over and over... For once be a human being and state your own thoughts!

Their natural minds cannot discern the spiritual reality. And, they will only believe it if their church tells them its the truth

 

[theefaith]

Sure, but not for doctrine changes

no there are no doctrine changes

truth is immutable!

Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17

Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

the church is commanded to teach and baptize (according to Matt 28:19) all men, not create doctrine!

 

[theefaith]

The church was not commissioned to preach to and baptize infants

says who?

Jn 1:29
Jn 3:16
Lk 2:10-11
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Infant Baptism

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say accept infants!)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!

 

[stephen64]

no there are no doctrine changes

truth is immutable!

Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17

Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

the church is commanded to teach and baptize (according to Matt 28:19) all men, not create doctrine!

So why has your church not taught you when Paul states you can have no righteousness of obeying the law he includes the ten commandments in that