Who founded your church?

[theefaith]

Who has the keys to heaven?

yes peter

 

[theefaith]

it says be baptized in the name of Jesus. you said the church does not baptize in the name of Jesus, the passage says be baptized in the name of Jesus.
the Mt 28 passage is the contro passage that many believe was added later on, and then you have the trinity formula of John which everyone does agree was added. coincidence? Einstein said a coincidence was the Lords way of being anonymous. its definitely a red flag.

everyone no

 

[Marymog]

.....
Don't forget Peter was the leader of the apostles, but James, the brother of Jesus, was the actual head of the Church.

Hi CharismaticLady,

If I may interject with some bible study. Peter's biblical Pedigree:

Peter is the one who calls for Judas Iscariot to be replaced, leading to the election of the Apostle Matthias (Acts 1:15-26).
Peter is the one who preaches the sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14-40).
When they are called before the Jewish authorities, Peter is the one who gives the speech in their defense (Acts 4:8-12).
Peter is the one who confronts Annanias and Sapphira about their lie (Acts 5:3-9).
The people of Jerusalem place the sick in the streets so that Peter's shadow might fall on them (Acts 5:15).
When the apostles are imprisoned as a group, miraculously freed, and then appear before the authorities, Peter speaks for them, saying that they must obey God rather than men (Acts 5:29-32).
Peter confronts Simon Magus (Acts 8:20-23).
Peter heals the paralyzed Aeneas (Acts 9:32-34).
Peter raises Dorcas from the dead (Acts 9:37-41)
Peter’s name occurs first in all lists of apostles (Mt 10:2, Mk 3:16, Lk 6:14, Acts 1:13), except Galatians 2.
Peter is named first amongst the list of the apostles. (Matthew 10:2).
Peter alone receives a new name, Rock, solemnly conferred (Jn 1:42, Mt 16:18).
Peter is regarded by Jesus as the Chief Shepherd after himself (Jn 21:15-17), singularly by name, and over the universal Church, even though others have a similar but subordinate role (Acts 20:28, 1 Pt 5:2).
Peter alone among the apostles is mentioned by name as having been prayed for by Jesus Christ in order that his “faith may not fail” (Lk 22:32).
Peter alone among the apostles is exhorted by Jesus to “strengthen your brethren” (Lk 22:32).
Peter first confesses Christ’s divinity (Mt 16:16).
Peter alone is told that he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation (Mt 16:17).
At God’s behest, Peter admits the first gentiles to the Church (Acts 10-11).
Peter (unlike James son of Zebedee) is miraculously delivered from prison and martyrdom (Acts 12:1-18).
Peter is regarded by the Jews (Acts 4:1-13) as the leader and spokesman of Christianity.
Peter is regarded by the common people in the same way (Acts 2:37-41; 5:15).
Peter gave the sermon at Pentecost (Acts 1:14-36)
Peter led the replacing of Judas (1:22),
Peter worked the first miracle of the Church age (3:6-12).
Peter’s name appears at least 54 times in Acts; James appears a total of 4 times . Would you share James biblical pedigree with me please?

It is known that James was the head of the church in Jerusalem. Is that what you are talking about?

Curious Mary

 

[Renniks]

That’s true but peter is the head of the church on earth the supreme Roman pontiff and prince of the apostles the vicar of Christ!

Says you.

 

[Renniks]

Who has the keys to heaven?

yes peter

This same authority is extended to the entire church in Matthew 18:18. Jesus uses the same language of binding and loosing in the context of how the church should handle unrepentant sinners. When the church follows Jesus’ teaching, they can be confident that their actions of binding and loosing are an extension of God’s actions in heaven

 

[Marymog]

Tertullian wrote:

“Having taken the bread and given it to His disciples, Jesus made it His own body, by saying, ‘This is My body,’ that is, the symbol of My body. There could not have been a symbol, however, unless there was first a true body. An empty thing or phantom is incapable of a symbol.

Origen: “We have a symbol of gratitude to God in the bread which we call the Eucharist”

Clement of Alexandria , “The Scripture, accordingly, has named wine the symbol of the sacred blood”

Eusebius of Caesarea (263–340)

For with the wine which was indeed the symbol of His blood,

A symbol, not literally blood.

Oh goodness.....Sooooo let me see if I understand you correctly: You search for quotes that fit what YOU believe from the men of the early church and consider yourself justified but REJECT any quotes from those same men that don't agree with what you believe? Did I get that right??? Doesn't that make YOU always right and everyone else always wrong????

You have to know WHO Tertullian was writing to and WHY he was writing to them kiddo. Here is a interpretation of that quote from Tertullian you mentioned: Tertullian’s point here is that Marcion’s “theory of a phantom body” fits with Christ “pretend[ing] the bread was His body,” because Marcion denied Jesus had a body in the first place. But the Christian believes Christ “made it His own body, by saying, This is my body.” The transformation does not take away the symbolic value of bread and wine, it confirms it.

Here is what Tertullian ALSO wrote:

The flesh, indeed, is washed, in order that the soul be cleansed; the flesh is anointed, that the soul may be consecrated; the flesh is signed (with the cross), that the soul too may be fortified; the flesh is shadowed with the imposition of hands, that the soul also maybe illuminated by the Spirit; the flesh feeds on the body and blood of Christ, that the soul likewise may fatten on its God. They cannot then be separated in their recompense, when they are united in their service.

Similarly, too, touching the days of Stations, most think that they must not be present at the sacrificial prayers, on the ground that the Station (fast) must be dissolved by reception of the Lord’s Body. Does, then the Eucharist cancel a service devoted to God, or bind it more to God?


He (the prodigal who comes back to Christ) receives again the pristine garment,–the condition, to wit, which Adam by transgression had lost. The ring also he is then wont to receive for the first time, wherewith, after being interrogated, he publicly seals the agreement of faith, and thus thenceforward feeds upon the fatness of the Lord’s body—the Eucharist, to wit.

Do you reject those writings from Tertullian???? Do you agree with Tertullian on Baptism???? (I'm gonna bet you don't)

Curious Mary

 

[jaybird]

everyone no

of course there are those that dont accept the mountain of evidence, but those that refuse to acknowledge what is standing right in front of them are rarely taken seriously.

 

[theefaith]

Says you.

says Jesus Christ

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

 

[theefaith]

This same authority is extended to the entire church in Matthew 18:18. Jesus uses the same language of binding and loosing in the context of how the church should handle unrepentant sinners. When the church follows Jesus’ teaching, they can be confident that their actions of binding and loosing are an extension of God’s actions in heaven

No only to the apostles in union with peter there’s only one set of keys

 

[Renniks]

You have to know WHO Tertullian was writing to and WHY he was writing to them kiddo

How old are you? Because calling a 50 some years old guy "kiddo" is kind of weird unless you're like 90. :)

 

[Renniks]

No only to the apostles in union with peter there’s only one set of keys

Oh so none of the teachings in Matthew 18 are for us, only for the disciples? Ok, then I can ignore the talk about how to deal with sin in the church, because that was only for those 12 people.

 

[BreadOfLife]

the 12 Apostles, the ones trained by Jesus did.

No - they Baptized bt the AUTHORITY OF Jesus Christ.
I suggest YOU also read post #1169 - THEN maybe we cna have an intelligent conversation . . .

 

[Renniks]

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!

Yes, he does...Including through the protestant churches.

 

[theefaith]

Oh so none of the teachings in Matthew 18 are for us, only for the disciples? Ok, then I can ignore the talk about how to deal with sin in the church, because that was only for those 12 people.

eph 2:20
OT prophets
New covenant apostles

 

[theefaith]

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

 

[theefaith]

Yes, he does...Including through the protestant churches.

Non-sense Jesus has only one bride

 

[Renniks]

eph 2:20
OT prophets
New covenant apostles

How does that help? They passed the truth on to us.
If not, we could not spread the gospel as individuals.

So, the keys of the kingdom are God’s gift to his people to state heaven’s verdict on who will and will not enter the kingdom based on their response to the gospel. As such, all who faithfully preach and teach the gospel are able to exercise them under the authority of Jesus Christ himself.

 

[Renniks]

Non-sense Jesus has only one bride

Yes, the church that remains true to him, including people from all tribes and tongues and denominations.

 

[CharismaticLady]

true but thru Christ and his church and his sacramental life

The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!



A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.

Christ sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to inspire his Apostles and his Church to shepherd his flock after his Ascension into heaven. "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 17:18, 20:21). Jesus is the Head of his Body the Church (Colossians 1:18). The Church itself is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus gave us his Body the Church to continue the works he performed during his earthly life. Grace given to us through the sacraments will help us lead a good life in this world and help save us for the Kingdom of Heaven.

The sacraments were instituted by Christ! The Church celebrates in her liturgy the Paschal mystery of Christ, his Passion, Sacrifice on the Cross, Resurrection, and Glorious Ascension. The Greek word μυστήριον or mystery in the Greek New Testament is translated into sacramentum in the Latin Vulgate Bible, from which we derive our English word sacrament (examples: Ephesians 1:9, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:27). The saving effects of Christ's Redemption on the Cross are communicated through the sacraments, especially in the liturgical celebration of the Eucharist.

All Catholic and Orthodox Churches recognize the seven sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, Holy Eucharist, Penance, the Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. The three sacraments of Christian Initiation are Baptism, Chrismation or Confirmation, and the Eucharist. The two sacraments of Healing are Penance and the Anointing of the Sick, and the two sacraments of Vocation are Holy Orders and Marriage. Three sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, and Holy Orders, are given once, as they render a permanent seal or character upon one's soul (2 Corinthians 1:21-22, Ephesians 4:30, Revelations 7:3).

The Gospel of Mark 5:25-34 describes a woman afflicted with hemorrhage who touched the cloak of Jesus and was immediately healed. There is a fourth century fresco painting in the catacomb of Sts. Marcellinus and Peter depicting this event, which serves as an apt symbol of Sacrament - the power that flows out from the body of Jesus, in order to effect both remission of sin and new life in Christ. The fresco image frames Part II of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the Liturgy and the Sacraments, The Celebration of the Christian Mystery. St. Thomas Aquinas, in the Summa Theologica, has written the standard exposition on the Seven Sacraments.

Each sacrament consists of a visible external rite, which is composed of matter and form, the matter being the action, such as the pouring of water in baptism, and the form being the words spoken by the minister. Each sacramental rite confers a special ecclesial effect and sacramental grace appropriate for each sacrament. The sacraments occur at pivotal events and give meaning to a person's life.

The sacraments act ex opere operato, by the very fact of the action being performed, independent of the minister. The effect on the person receiving the sacrament is called ex opere operantis, and depends on the interior disposition of the receiver.

Grace is a favor, the free and undeserved gift from God through Christ Jesus, to help us respond to his call to become children of God, to become partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is a participation in the life of God and is necessary for salvation.

I don't know if you are Orthodox or RCC, but I would suspect you are RCC. Both of those are break-offs - denominations - from the original church. That doesn't mean you cannot be saved by being in a denomination, but they are telling you, that only they are the true Church. It is not about Peter, but about Jesus. We need to be part of Jesus, not part of Peter. Peter didn't die for you.

Look around you, TF. Do you not see the trappings of paganism all around you at church and the Vatican. What are the priests wearing? What do you carry around with you? Is it a rosary? Where do you see people praying to Mary in the New Testament? Jesus is the ONLY mediator between us and the Father. If you believe the unscriptural new teaching that Mary is the Mediatrix, PLEASE think for yourself. I believe by your fruit that you do have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside you. You are my brother in the Lord. But you have been duped into being a good Catholic, when it is abiding in Christ that you need to dwell on.

1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

 

[CharismaticLady]

no James was not Peter was

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

We can receive the writings of Paul and John also. The whole New Testament are witnesses to Jesus. It is Truth. I know it is very hard to undo all the lies you have grown up with. But it is Christ who died for you. And it is His Spirit that dwelt in ALL of His apostles, not just Peter. I know it is hard to believe someone outside the RCC, but it is like being able to actually see the forest, not just the trees. You need to see the whole picture and the true gospel.

Start here: What is the difference between the Old Covenant of the Old Testament, and the New Covenant that Jesus taught?