Who founded your church?

[Renniks]

why do they ask peter? And why does Jesus unite ONLY Peter to Himself half for you half for me?

Because he happened to be the one they saw first? What? Paying taxes is uniting himself with Peter? I guess If I help someone with their taxes we are one? Lol, where do you come up with this stuff?

 

[Renniks]

a false dichotomy You recklessly assume we all lack the proper disposition just by going through the motions. You are not even aware of how insulting you are.
Once again, The sacramental principle flows from the Incarnation itself. If matter had nothing to do with grace, then God wouldn't have had to become man. You don't get it. Ritual and “physicality” were not abolished by the coming of Christ. Quite the contrary: it was the Incarnation that fully established sacramentalism as a principle in the Christian religion. The latter may be defined as the belief that matter can convey grace. It’s really that simple, at bottom, or in essence. God uses matter both to help us live better lives (sanctification) and to ultimately save us (regeneration and justification), starting with baptism itself.
So it is curious that many appear to possess a pronounced hostility to the sacramental belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist, seeing that it flows so straightforwardly from the Incarnation and the Crucifixion itself. This brings to mind an analogy to the Jewish and Muslim disdain for the Incarnation as an unthinkable (impossible?) task for God to undertake. They view the Incarnation in the same way a majority of Protestants regard the Eucharist.

For them, God wouldn’t or couldn’t or shouldn’t become a man (such a thought is blasphemous; unthinkable!). For many (not all) Protestants, God wouldn’t or couldn’t or shouldn’t become substantially, physically, sacramentally present under the outward forms of bread and wine. The dynamic or underlying premise is the same. If Christ could become man, He can surely will to be actually and truly present in what was formerly (and still looks like) bread and wine, once consecrated.
Again, The sacramental principle flows from the Incarnation itself.
Christ didn’t abolish ritual — He perfected it
Your "faith alone" doctrine cancels out physicality. It's clearly all over the Bible but you don't get it. Your apparent hostility to physicality is closer to Gnosticism than Christianity. You flatly reject the simplest definition of the incarnation principle without thinking about what you are saying.

Oh, come on! The Catholic doctrine is that the wafer is literally Christs flesh and blood. The Holy Spirit can occupy anything he wants, anytime he wants, but that's not even the issue.

 

[Philip James]

The Catholic doctrine is that the wafer is literally Christs flesh and blood

Indeed, and His soul, and His divinity... The Eucharist is the risen Christ Himself, whole and entire, substantially present!
The Bread of Life, come down from heaven.
The entire life of the Church flows from this reality...

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

 

[Renniks]

Indeed, and His soul, and His divinity... The Eucharist is the risen Christ Himself, whole and entire, substantially present!
The Bread of Life, come down from heaven.
The entire life of the Church flows from this reality...

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

Tertullian wrote:

“Having taken the bread and given it to His disciples, Jesus made it His own body, by saying, ‘This is My body,’ that is, the symbol of My body. There could not have been a symbol, however, unless there was first a true body. An empty thing or phantom is incapable of a symbol.

Origen: “We have a symbol of gratitude to God in the bread which we call the Eucharist”

Clement of Alexandria , “The Scripture, accordingly, has named wine the symbol of the sacred blood”

Eusebius of Caesarea (263–340)

For with the wine which was indeed the symbol of His blood,

A symbol, not literally blood.

 

[mjrhealth]

I know The Church isn't invisible. That's what I have been saying all along. Just before church services and just after church services when everyone is leaving I do see them 'walking outside my church everyday'. I am glad we can finally agree on something kiddo.

Keeping it real....Mary

One thing Mary is "the Chucrh" the real Church. is Christs bride,not the Harlot church the one that men created and love more than His. You know what they call a person who sells harlots....

Come out of her My People, that is how we know those who are not His,
or you will catch her diseases, but its too late you already have
What you are joined too,
will Christ be joined to a Harlot, God forbid,

oh but that harlot dressed in scarlot drunk with teh blood of teh saints thinks she is teh most beautiful woman but she is filled with murder, hate and arrogance, stands proudly boasting as if she has pride of place. But she has already being judged and all those in her with her.

 

[CharismaticLady]

you mean we actually have to be holy or righteous?

Absolutely. But we cannot be righteous and holy on our own. That is what the baptism of the Holy Spirit accomplishes. He makes us born again by killing the desire to sin. It is God dwelling inside of us, not just outside drawing us. Not everyone has experienced this supernatural change in them. It is not something you receive automatically by taking sacraments. It is actual power from God. I didn't receive it until after I had already gone to church for 30 years.

Hebrews 12:14 "without holiness, no man shall see God."
Revelation 22:11 he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
Romans 8:9 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

[CharismaticLady]

please show me a denomination in the Bible?
Broke off from the original? What was the original then?
Are you denying scripture Matt 16:18 the gates shall NOT prevail against The one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ!
The reformation is not in the Bible and that which God has ordained no man can put assunder, and the church is founded on Peter and the apostles eph 2:20 none of the so called reformers were apostles had no authority

They didn't call them denominations then, but false teachers. I do not belong to any denomination anymore.

 

[theefaith]

i am well hope you are doing good.

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

this command is in the name of Jesus not the baptism
Why follow this and not Matt 28:19?

 

[CharismaticLady]

this command is in the name of Jesus not the baptism
Why follow this and not Matt 28:19?

Peter was saying that to the Jews who already know about the baptism of John the Baptist. Peter is emphasizing that Jesus the Son of God is God, and they MUST repent and accept Him to receive the Holy Spirit. Remember, this was on the Day of Pentecost where they witnessed the Holy Spirit falling on the disciples.

 

[theefaith]

Because he happened to be the one they saw first? What? Paying taxes is uniting himself with Peter? I guess If I help someone with their taxes we are one? Lol, where do you come up with this stuff?

you cant deny Jesus is identifying Peter with himself Jn 21:17

 

[CharismaticLady]

you cant deny Jesus is identifying Peter with himself Jn 21:17

Jesus is the Rock, the Cornerstone. Anyone who abides in Him, and He in them become one. That is you and I too. Jesus was the firstborn of many brethren Romans 8:29-30

Don't forget Peter was the leader of the apostles, but James, the brother of Jesus, was the actual head of the Church.

 

[theefaith]

Absolutely. But we cannot be righteous and holy on our own. That is what the baptism of the Holy Spirit accomplishes. He makes us born again by killing the desire to sin. It is God dwelling inside of us, not just outside drawing us. Not everyone has experienced this supernatural change in them. It is not something you receive automatically by taking sacraments. It is actual power from God. I didn't receive it until after I had already gone to church for 30 years.

Hebrews 12:14 "without holiness, no man shall see God."
Revelation 22:11 he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
Romans 8:9 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

true but thru Christ and his church and his sacramental life

The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!



A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.

Christ sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to inspire his Apostles and his Church to shepherd his flock after his Ascension into heaven. "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 17:18, 20:21). Jesus is the Head of his Body the Church (Colossians 1:18). The Church itself is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus gave us his Body the Church to continue the works he performed during his earthly life. Grace given to us through the sacraments will help us lead a good life in this world and help save us for the Kingdom of Heaven.

The sacraments were instituted by Christ! The Church celebrates in her liturgy the Paschal mystery of Christ, his Passion, Sacrifice on the Cross, Resurrection, and Glorious Ascension. The Greek word μυστήριον or mystery in the Greek New Testament is translated into sacramentum in the Latin Vulgate Bible, from which we derive our English word sacrament (examples: Ephesians 1:9, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:27). The saving effects of Christ's Redemption on the Cross are communicated through the sacraments, especially in the liturgical celebration of the Eucharist.

All Catholic and Orthodox Churches recognize the seven sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, Holy Eucharist, Penance, the Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. The three sacraments of Christian Initiation are Baptism, Chrismation or Confirmation, and the Eucharist. The two sacraments of Healing are Penance and the Anointing of the Sick, and the two sacraments of Vocation are Holy Orders and Marriage. Three sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, and Holy Orders, are given once, as they render a permanent seal or character upon one's soul (2 Corinthians 1:21-22, Ephesians 4:30, Revelations 7:3).

The Gospel of Mark 5:25-34 describes a woman afflicted with hemorrhage who touched the cloak of Jesus and was immediately healed. There is a fourth century fresco painting in the catacomb of Sts. Marcellinus and Peter depicting this event, which serves as an apt symbol of Sacrament - the power that flows out from the body of Jesus, in order to effect both remission of sin and new life in Christ. The fresco image frames Part II of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the Liturgy and the Sacraments, The Celebration of the Christian Mystery. St. Thomas Aquinas, in the Summa Theologica, has written the standard exposition on the Seven Sacraments.

Each sacrament consists of a visible external rite, which is composed of matter and form, the matter being the action, such as the pouring of water in baptism, and the form being the words spoken by the minister. Each sacramental rite confers a special ecclesial effect and sacramental grace appropriate for each sacrament. The sacraments occur at pivotal events and give meaning to a person's life.

The sacraments act ex opere operato, by the very fact of the action being performed, independent of the minister. The effect on the person receiving the sacrament is called ex opere operantis, and depends on the interior disposition of the receiver.

Grace is a favor, the free and undeserved gift from God through Christ Jesus, to help us respond to his call to become children of God, to become partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is a participation in the life of God and is necessary for salvation.

 

[Marymog]

And you have no explanation as to how you can belong to the true church, when your church has many fake priests and members who are not really believers at all...

LOL....Thanks for your time.

 

[theefaith]

They didn't call them denominations then, but false teachers. I do not belong to any denomination anymore.

so denominations are sects with false doctrines like luther calvin and the other 20000 since the great rebellion! Oh I agree

 

[theefaith]

Peter was saying that to the Jews who already know about the baptism of John the Baptist. Peter is emphasizing that Jesus the Son of God is God, and they MUST repent and accept Him to receive the Holy Spirit. Remember, this was on the Day of Pentecost where they witnessed the Holy Spirit falling on the disciples.

So now we are even rejecting sacramental baptismal regeneration

 

[Renniks]

you cant deny Jesus is identifying Peter with himself Jn 21:17

What does that mean? You think Jesus only talked personally to Peter? He had personal conversations with lots of individuals. He gave instructions to lots of people.
The reason he singled out Peter in this instance is because Peter had betrayed him and needed to be assured that he was still being trusted to spread the gospel.

 

[theefaith]

Jesus is the Rock, the Cornerstone. Anyone who abides in Him, and He in them become one. That is you and I too. Jesus was the firstborn of many brethren Romans 8:29-30

Don't forget Peter was the leader of the apostles, but James, the brother of Jesus, was the actual head of the Church.

no James was not Peter was

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

 

[jaybird]

this command is in the name of Jesus not the baptism
Why follow this and not Matt 28:19?

it says be baptized in the name of Jesus. you said the church does not baptize in the name of Jesus, the passage says be baptized in the name of Jesus.
the Mt 28 passage is the contro passage that many believe was added later on, and then you have the trinity formula of John which everyone does agree was added. coincidence? Einstein said a coincidence was the Lords way of being anonymous. its definitely a red flag.

 

[theefaith]

LOL....Thanks for your time.

then they are to blame not the spotless bride of Christ
And there actions separate them from the unity of the church
Like abortion causes automatic excommunication

 

[theefaith]

What does that mean? You think Jesus only talked personally to Peter? He had personal conversations with lots of individuals. He gave instructions to lots of people.
The reason he singled out Peter in this instance is because Peter had betrayed him and needed to be assured that he was still being trusted to spread the gospel.

That’s true but peter is the head of the church on earth the supreme Roman pontiff and prince of the apostles the vicar of Christ!