Where does the Pope get his authority?

[Cassandra]

Brother/ Sister...I just posted that commentary for reference, I have no understanding of who gave the pope his authority...

Apologies, I should have explained that at the beginning of the commentary.

Is there a reference for what you posted? I'd like to go read the rest if there is more...

 

[Ritajanice]

Is there a reference for what you posted? I'd like to go read the rest if there is more...

I will go back to it , if there is any more I will pm it to you if that’s ok?

Or would you rather I post it on here?

 

[Cassandra]

Please post it here==others may want to see. :)

 

[amigo de christo]

Sooo, you are anti-Protestant!

BOTH realms DO IT . YES BOTH REALMS DO THIS .
ITS BIBLE TIME my friend . so many men within both the protestant and catholic realm
have had one thing in common . COME YE AND SIT UNDER US and our scholars
learn FROM US , TRUST IN OUR SYSTEM .
THe problem is THEY BOTH have twisted things
and now in this last hour the WHORE of all darkness
the SPIRIT of the christ called ANTI
the devil himself has been allowed to pump a false love delusion
unto these realms to merge them again as one
and not only them but even the other religoins under what they now all believe and will
soon believe to BE LOVE and will believe its coming FROM GOD , when in truth ITS COMING FROM THE DRAGON .
GET in the bible for YOU . FOR YOU . dont heed men that imply we cannot learn it for ourselves
but need TO SIT UNDER THEM .
Their scholars are not infallible
their system is not infallible
BUT GOD IS , CHRIST IS , and the TRUTH HE INSPIRED IN SCRIPTURE IS .
TIME TO LEARN FOR YOU , or Continue in deceptoin as do many within the protestant realm .
But the end of that WILL NOT BE GOOD at all .
AS GOD DESIRES NOT THE DEATH OF ANY
so too by HIS SPIRIT i desire not the death of any
SO I POINT TOO TRUTH , TO GOD , TO CHRIST , TO REMIND ALL TO GET BACK INTO THE TRUTH GOD HIMSELF
INSPIRED through men IN THAT BIBLE . read it and love it , love it and embrace that truth . man is NOT INFALLIBLE
nor is his SYSTEM or scholars INFALLIBLE . BUT GOD IS , CHRIST IS and SO TOO IS THE TRUTH HE INSPIRED . learn it for YOU .

 

[amigo de christo]

I will go back to it , if there is any more I will pm it to you if that’s ok?

Or would you rather I post it on here?

WHO gave paul his authority . GOD DID .
but even paul said ALL STEWARDS must be tested .
you go to and examine what these systems teach .
THEY DO NO SUCH THING . they trust in THEIR SYSTEM claiming GOD appointed it .
And even when i show them error through their own popes , WHICH OFTEN CONTRADICTED one another
STILL THEY stay sat under that system , making the claim GOD APPOINTED IT .
Heck any honest well learned man , in even the catholic realm would tell you
that the popes often contradicted each other .
And yet STILL they sit under said system , trusting in said SYSTEM , trusting in men .
This is why i have hollered almost non stop to every person whether of catholic
or protestant , WE need to get in the bible and learn it for ourselves .
BUT both sides are fast to say , THIS cannot be done . You need to sit under our scholars
our men , our etc in order to learn it . and yet all their doctrines CONTRADICT not only each other
BUT THE TRUTH IN SCRIPTURE itself . yet everyone just keeps seated and wont bother to learn
FOR themselves the very truth GOD inspired which would have , YES WOULD HAVE helped them
What GOD inspired IS TRUTH as HE IS TRUTH , HIS WORD IS TRUTH , HIS SPIRIT IS TRUTH .
I refuse to take man at his word . cause no man is infallible sister . NO MAN .
i might love all , BUT I DONT TRUST THEM AT THEIR WORD . I DO TRUST GOD .
i pray and wish that all would simply learn the truth for themselves .
DO not listen to men who try and say That is how we got so many different denominations .
NO the reason we got so many different denominations is cause FOLKS sat under men
who DECIEVED THEM , who had twisted stuff . this truly is not a complicated walk
but men love to complicate things .

 

[Brakelite]

No, you didn't. You selectivly quoted 6 words from a verse that had 30 words. That verse has NOTHING to do with what we are discussing.

you crack me up

Which verse are you referring to? Which 6 words?

 

[Marymog]

Which verse are you referring to? Which 6 words?

John 15:5 "without Me ye can do nothing."

 

[Marymog]

Now, you figure out who we should be obeying. God right? And if we are obeying that Him, then we ought not be getting into any bother with the church needing to discipline us right?

Oh wait. What of the thousands who over centuries got into bother with your church because they chose to obey scripture regarding the Sabbath, rather than obeying your church and honouring Sunday? Mmm.

Lol....You are obeying YOUR interpretation of Scripture and what the men of the SDA tell you to obey.

Mmmm.......your .09% of men in this world, who don't worship Him on Sunday like the NT Christians did, are right and the rest of Christianity is wrong?

 

[Marymog]

If the men and the Bible agree, there's no problem. If the men and the Bible disagree, you are welcome to obey the men, I will obey the Lord God of Israel and His word.

Lol...you obey what YOU think is the correct interpretation. You obey ONE man....YOU! Of which Scripture never says to do and actually says obey those that rule over you.

You rule over you!!! You deny Scripture.

So help me out here. Scripture says, Obey those (men of the church) that rule over you. If you were to disobey the men of your SDA church, what happens to you? I presume your elders believe in that passage.....

 

[Marymog]

None of that will be necessary. I will show you a proven alibi, and you will apologise for accusing me falsely, and I will forgive you.

You crack me up Brakelite.

Clearly you don't have an answer. I backed you into a corner with a simple question based on Scripture and you come up with a ridiculous childish response.

Do you EVER get tired of being wrong?

 

[Marymog]

I will repeat Scripture: The Holy Spirit may REVEAL the Truth to individual Christians, but The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.

Who said I don't belong to the church?

Lol Braklite. Quote the post where I said you don't belong to the church. You can't. Wanna know why? Because I never said you don't belong to the church (even though most would say the SDA's are not Christians, I have never said that).

What I said is that YOU are not the pillar and foundation of truth. You don't read scripture much do you? If you would learn Scripture, you would know what that vs means. Or was it my posts you didn't read?

PS: on multiple occasions I have asked you to quote what you FALSLEY accuse me of. You NEVER do. AND you never apologize for FALSLEY accusing me. And I suspect you won't this time either. You will probably double down, like you have in the past.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

QUESTION

GOT Answer.​

What does the Bible say about the pope / papacy?​

ANSWER

The Roman Catholic Church’s teaching about the pope (“pope” means “father”) is built upon and involves the following Roman Catholic teachings:

1) Christ made Peter the leader of the apostles and of the church (Matthew 16:18-19). In giving Peter the “keys of the kingdom,” Christ not only made him leader, but also made him infallible when he acted or spoke as Christ’s representative on earth (speaking from the seat of authority, or “ex cathedra”). This ability to act on behalf of the church in an infallible way when speaking “ex cathedra” was passed on to Peter’s successors, thus giving the church an infallible guide on earth. The purpose of the papacy is to lead the church unerringly.

2) Peter later became the first bishop of Rome. As bishop of Rome, he exercised authority over all other bishops and church leaders. The teaching that the bishop of Rome is above all other bishops in authority is referred to as the “primacy” of the Roman bishop.

3) Peter passed on his apostolic authority to the next bishop of Rome, along with the other apostles who passed on their apostolic authority to the bishops that they ordained. These new bishops, in turn, passed on that apostolic authority to those bishops that they later ordained, and so on. This “passing on of apostolic authority” is referred to as “apostolic succession.”

4) Based upon the claim of an unbroken chain of Roman bishops, Roman Catholics teach that the Roman Catholic Church is the true church, and that all churches that do not accept the primacy of the pope have broken away from them, the original and one true church.

Having briefly reviewed some of the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church concerning the papacy, the question is whether those teachings are in agreement with Scripture. The Roman Catholic Church sees the papacy and the infallible teaching authority of “Mother Church” as being necessary to guide the church, and uses that as logical reasoning for God’s provision of it. But in examining Scripture, we find the following:

1) While Peter was central in the early spread of the gospel (part of the meaning behind Matthew 16:18-19), the teaching of Scripture, taken in context, nowhere declares that he was in authority over the other apostles or over the church (see Acts 15:1-23; Galatians 2:1-14; 1 Peter 5:1-5). Nor is it ever taught that the bishop of Rome was to have primacy over the church. Rather, there is only one reference in Scripture of Peter writing from “Babylon,” a name sometimes applied to Rome, found in 1 Peter 5:13. Primarily from this, and the historical rise of the influence of the bishop of Rome (due to the support of Constantine and the Roman emperors who followed him), come the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching of the primacy of the bishop of Rome. However, Scripture shows that Peter’s authority was shared by the other apostles (Ephesians 2:19-20) and that the “loosing and binding” authority attributed to him was likewise shared by the local churches, not just their church leaders (see Matthew 18:15-19; 1 Corinthians 5:1-13; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Titus 2:15; 3:10-11).

2) Nowhere does Scripture state that in order to keep the church from error, the authority of the apostles was passed on to those they ordained (the idea behind apostolic succession). Apostolic succession is “read into” those verses that the Roman Catholic Church uses to support this doctrine (2 Timothy 2:2; 4:2-5; Titus 1:5; 2:1; 2:15; 1 Timothy 5:19-22). What Scripture DOES teach is that false teachings would arise even from among church leaders and that Christians were to compare the teachings of these later church leaders with Scripture, which alone is cited in the Bible as infallible. The Bible does not teach that the apostles were infallible, apart from what was written by them and incorporated into Scripture. Paul, in talking to the church leaders in the large city of Ephesus, makes note of coming false teachers. Paul does NOT commend them to “the apostles and those who would carry on their authority,” but rather to “God and to the word of His grace” (Acts 20:28-32).

Again, the Bible teaches that it is Scripture that is to be used as measuring stick to determine truth from error. In Galatians 1:8-9, Paul states that it is not WHO teaches but WHAT is being taught that is to be used to determine truth from error. While the Roman Catholic Church continues to pronounce a curse to hell, or “anathema,” upon those who would reject the authority of the pope, Scripture reserves that curse for those who would teach a different gospel (Galatians 1:8-9).

3) While the Roman Catholic Church sees apostolic succession as logically necessary in order for God to unerringly guide the church, Scripture states that God has provided for His church through the following:

(a) Infallible Scripture, (Acts 20:32; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Matthew 5:18; John 10:35; Acts 17:10-12; Isaiah 8:20; 40:8; etc.) Note: Peter speaks of Paul’s writings in the same category as other Scripture (2 Peter 3:16),

(b) Christ’s unending high-priesthood in heaven (Hebrews 7:22-28),

(c) The provision of the Holy Spirit who guided the apostles into truth after Christ’s death (John 16:12-14), who gifts believers for the work of the ministry, including teaching (Romans 12:3-8; Ephesians 4:11-16), and who uses the written Word as His chief tool (Hebrews 4:12; Ephesians 6:17).

While there have seemingly been good (humanly speaking) and moral men who have served as pope of the Roman Catholic Church—some point to Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI, and Pope Francis I as examples—the Roman Catholic teaching about the office of the pope should be rejected because it is not “in continuity” with the teachings of the New Testament. This comparison of any church’s teaching is essential, lest we miss the New Testament’s teaching concerning the gospel and not only miss eternal life in heaven ourselves but unwittingly lead others down the wrong path (Galatians 1:8-9).

A paste job from GotQuestions.org that is moderately Calvinistic. I asked them so its by their own admission they are moderately Calvinist, whatever that means. I know what plagiarism means too. If you are exempt from posting your sources, then so am I.

64 Critiques Of John Calvin: Introduction & Master List

I literally responded line-by-line to almost all of Book IV of the seminal theological work, "Institutes of the Christian Religion" by John Calvin. It runs about 500 pages. Plus more...

www.patheos.com

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

a duplicate post deleted by me

 

[Ritajanice]

GotQuestions.org is moderately Calvinistic. I asked them so its by their own admission they are moderately Calvinist, whatever that means. I know what plagiarism means too. If you are exempt from posting your sources, then so am I.

64 Critiques Of John Calvin: Introduction & Master List

I literally responded line-by-line to almost all of Book IV of the seminal theological work, "Institutes of the Christian Religion" by John Calvin. It runs about 500 pages. Plus more...

www.patheos.com

I posted what I posted for information for members from another source ,

Got hadn’t added anything further @Cassandra I did check ,I have no idea where the Pope got his authority, and quite frankly I’m not interested..

The Pope isn’t God!!!....that I do know...he may have authority but, imo, he has NO power from within, which many will understand exactly what I mean when I say that.....just my opinion.....won’t be commenting any further.

 

[Brakelite]

John 15:5 "without Me ye can do nothing."

You have a problem with that? Does that need to be interpreted? Sounds similar enough to me. And the context doesn't change the core meaning of Jesus's words here. And the rest of scripture agrees with that core meaning.
KJV Acts 17:24-31
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Tell me. Where in any of the above sermon by Paul is there any indication that his listeners were to place church leadership above God Himself? Where is Paul suggesting that he, Paul, is a vicar of Christ?

 

[Brakelite]

Lol Braklite. Quote the post where I said you don't belong to the church. You can't. Wanna know why? Because I never said you don't belong to the church (even though most would say the SDA's are not Christians, I have never said that).

What I said is that YOU are not the pillar and foundation of truth. You don't read scripture much do you? If you would learn Scripture, you would know what that vs means. Or was it my posts you didn't read?

PS: on multiple occasions I have asked you to quote what you FALSLEY accuse me of. You NEVER do. AND you never apologize for FALSLEY accusing me. And I suspect you won't this time either. You will probably double down, like you have in the past.

So you do read scripture a lot? I'm surprised but pleased for your sake. Surprised because you didn't first recognise any scripture in my post.

Since you have NO SCRIPTURE in your above post to back up what you are saying then that means you have given your opinion.

Further to that, your attempt to make me some sort of villain falls for two reasons. I was responding to your quip that I wasn't quoting scripture, which was patiently false, and secondly, I was asking a question... You don't read a lot of scripture do you? So I want accusing you of anything. In that note, I have a further question.
Why is it that you ignore what I wrote, and come back and tell me what I believe and do which contradicts what I actually testify of myself. Clearly you don't believe me when I respond to you, is that because you are so aggressive against Adventists that it had become an auto immune response?

 

[Brakelite]

Mmmm.......your .09% of men in this world, who don't worship Him on Sunday like the NT Christians did, are right and the rest of Christianity is wrong?

KJV Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

KJV Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Mary. As this thread is all about, authority. The scriptures do not explicitly teach that any human individual or institution has spiritual authority over another. Such is a pagan practise, and is to be repudiated within Christendom. Certainly, behaviour in the church must be supervised, and certain rules obeyed and decorum maintained. Paul rebuked the Corinthian church precisely on such matters, and also regarding blatant Hypocrisy within the assembly, practises which dishonor the name of Christ. But no-one has been given authority over anyone else's conscience. What one chooses to believe is his choice and his alone. Religious freedom and liberty of conscience is vital to the church so that no-one be a member for any other reason than a personal decision to love and live for Jesus, not because you are compelled to through legislation or coercion. Such force is satanic and dishonors the saviour.

 

[Brakelite]

Lol...you obey what YOU think is the correct interpretation.

Cardinal rule for biblical understanding. The Bible interprets itself with the aid of the holy Spirit.. If you want some examples, happy to oblige.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

I posted what I posted for information for members from another source ,

Got hadn’t added anything further @Cassandra I did check ,I have no idea where the Pope got his authority, and quite frankly I’m not interested..

But you are interested in bearing false witness, but you don't know any better.

The Pope isn’t God!!!....that I do know...

So does every Catholic.

he may have authority but, imo, he has NO power from within, which many will understand exactly what I mean when I say that.....just my opinion.....won’t be commenting any further.

You're absolutely correct. The Pope has no power apart from the Church. In fact, he has less authority than Councils. If you won't be commenting further, I'll respect that and leave you alone.

 

[Brakelite]

What I said is that YOU are not the pillar and foundation of truth.

I am horrified that after all I have said, you should find cause to affirm that. I have constantly reiterated time and time again, that the scriptures are the final authority in faith and doctrine. The church being described as the foundation and pillar of truth does not contradict God's word as being the final authority. But for the word of God, the church would not exist.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... Sanctify them through The truth, The Word is truth...I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no man cometh to the Father except by Me...
KJV Psalms 138:1-8
1 I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee.
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
3 In the day when I cried thou answeredst me, and strengthenedst me with strength in my soul.
4 All the kings of the earth shall praise thee, O LORD, when they hear the words of thy mouth.
5 Yea, they shall sing in the ways of the LORD: for great is the glory of the LORD.
6 Though the LORD be high, yet hath he respect unto the lowly: but the proud he knoweth afar off.
7 Though I walk in the midst of trouble, thou wilt revive me: thou shalt stretch forth thine hand against the wrath of mine enemies, and thy right hand shall save me.
8 The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.