Where does the Pope get his authority?

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Marymog

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Wow, to you someone who believes in the Bible only is a cultist.
If I believed in what your denominational church teaches.
Then I would be credible to you.

You don't believe in what the Bible teaches, therefore you don't believe the Bible,
2Timothy 3:17

Jude 3

Stop contradicting Matthew with your false doctrine!

Matthew 16:18-19. Catholic doctrine: Peter is the Head of the church, has authority on earth
Matthew 28: 18-19 Gods word: Jesus is the Head of the church, He has ALL AUTHORITY on earth

Colossians 1:18 Jesus is the Head of the church.

Exegesis: Matthew 16:18-19 Peter cannot be the Head because it contradicts Matthew in 28:18-19
Jesus must be building His church on Peter's confession that is revelation from God not on Peter himself in Matthew 16:18-19

You are making a mess of the Scriptures
Scripture makes it clear that Peter was the leader of the Apostles after Christ died. Anyone that denies that FACT doesn't know Scripture.

I'm not even making the claim in this post that he was the first Pope. I'm just saying scripture makes it clear that Peter was the leader of the Apostles. Deny Scripture all you want. It doesn't change the facts.
 

Titus

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That's not the question I thought we were discussing. Rather, I thought we were discussing whether Paul was telling the Thessalonians in 2 Thess. 2:15 to

A. Stand firm to the traditions you received from the original apostles,

vs.

B. Stand firm to the tradition you received from me and from Silas and from Timothy -- which, by the way, is the same tradition the original apostles of Jesus Christ are preaching elsewhere (at least, NOW THAT I'VE STRAIGHTENED PETER OUT. SEE MY LETTER TO THE GALATIANS).
I believe Paul is referring to the gospel as the traditions, when he is speaking to the Thessalonians.
Its Paul telling them to follow the traditions they received from him. That would be no different than what Peter taught the earliest christians in Acts 2:42.

All the apostles = the traditions in the first century church. No variation among them.

I'm confused about your letter to the Galatians.
Are you saying you texted something about them. Maybe I have short term memory loss?
 

Titus

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Scripture makes it clear that Peter was the leader of the Apostles after Christ died. Anyone that denies that FACT doesn't know Scripture.

I'm not even making the claim in this post that he was the first Pope. I'm just saying scripture makes it clear that Peter was the leader of the Apostles. Deny Scripture all you want. It doesn't change the facts
No Scripture you just claim it.
It's all catholic fiction
 

Jude Thaddeus

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Hey Titus. Here is a Christian history lesson. Opposition to infant baptism began in the Middle Ages. Before that it was practiced and accepted by all Christians.

YOU want to deny infants, who have a God given soul, baptism. Scripture makes it clear that what your men taught you is wrong: Be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” “For the promise is to you and to your children.

You and your ilk don't want to hinder children from going to Him. What did Jesus say: “Now they were bringing even infants to him” “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven” “She was baptized, with her household” (Acts 16:15). He was baptized, with all his family” (Acts 16:33). I did baptize also the household of Stephanas” (1 Cor. 1:16). No infants in a household or family Titus?????????? .

Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision
(Col. 2:11–12).

Your men have lied to you Titus. None the less, thanks for your opinion. I will stick with Scripture and 2,000 years of Christian history.
The problem with Bible cults is they reject the doctrine of Original Sin.
 

Titus

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The problem with Bible cults is they reject the doctrine of Original Sin.
Baptizing babies proves catholics teach a false gospel not found in the new testament.
You cannot give one Bible passage that teaches apostles baptized babies.
 

Titus

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What good will that do? You just deny everything. Wikipedia is not a Catholic source, but you will deny that too.
You gotta be kidding?
I sleep, eat and breath Scripture.
You cannot give one BIBLE PASSAGE that Peter is the leader, chief, Head of the apostles?

Like I said until you produce the passage it's all catholic fiction
 

RedFan

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All the apostles = the traditions in the first century church. No variation among them.

I'm confused about your letter to the Galatians.
Are you saying you texted something about them. Maybe I have short term memory loss?
No you don't! You're fine. Mine was a tongue-in-cheek reference to Gal. 2:11.
 
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Titus

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No you don't! You're fine. Mine was a tongue-in-cheek reference to Gal. 2:11.
That passage really helps with the Catholics claiming Peter was chief, leader of the apostles,
Thanks
 

RedFan

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That passage really helps with the Catholics claiming Peter was chief, leader of the apostles,
Thanks
I don't think it helps much. So far as we know, none of the Eleven had any different view from Peter's on the matters addressed by Paul in Galatians. So he could have been the leader of the Eleven despite sharing in common some mistaken and ultimately corrected views. At least, Gal. 2:11 does nothing to belie this.

Catholics (I am not one, by the way) point to Matt. 16:17-19, John 21:15-17, and the general tenor of the first half of Acts which features Peter in a prominent role. I'm happy to assume he was their leader. But he was not the leader of the Church in Jerusalem. James the brother of the Lord was.
 

Titus

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I don't think it helps much. So far as we know, none of the Eleven had any different view from Peter's on the matters addressed by Paul in Galatians. So he could have been the leader of the Eleven despite sharing in common some mistaken and ultimately corrected views. At least, Gal. 2:11 does nothing to belie this.

Catholics (I am not one, by the way) point to Matt. 16:17-19, John 21:15-17, and the general tenor of the first half of Acts which features Peter in a prominent role. I'm happy to assume he was their leader. But he was not the leader of the Church in Jerusalem. James the brother of the Lord was.
No friend, it is a sin to assume Peter was the leader of the apostles.
You don't come to truth by assumption.
Psalm 19:13,
- keep back your servant also from presumptuous sins let them not have dominion over me
Then shall I be innocent of great transgression

Now you are in the same boat with the catholics.

You must produce the passage that says Peter was given a authoritative position among the apostles.
 

RedFan

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No friend, it is a sin to assume Peter was the leader of the apostles.
You don't come to truth by assumption.
Psalm 19:13,
- keep back your servant also from presumptuous sins let them not have dominion over me
Then shall I be innocent of great transgression

Now you are in the same boat with the catholics.

You must produce the passage that says Peter was given a authoritative position among the apostles.
Inferences aren't admissible? Like the story recounted in John 20:3-8?
 

Jude Thaddeus

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Give me a passge
Will it make a difference? You are demanding I provide a verse that says, "Peter is the first Pope", or "Peter is leader of the Apostles". There are no such verses, but many indications.

The Catholic doctrine of the papacy is biblically based, and is derived from the evident primacy of St. Peter among the apostles. Like all Christian doctrines, it has undergone development through the centuries, but it hasn’t departed from the essential components already existing in the leadership and prerogatives of St. Peter. These were given to him by our Lord Jesus Christ, acknowledged by his contemporaries, and accepted by the early Church. The biblical Petrine data is quite strong and convincing, by virtue of its cumulative weight, especially for those who are not hostile to the notion of the papacy from the outset.
This is especially made clear with the assistance of biblical commentaries. The evidence of Holy Scripture (RSV) follows:

1. Matthew 16:18: “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church; and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.”

The rock (Greek, petra) referred to here is St. Peter himself, not his faith or Jesus Christ. Christ appears here not as the foundation, but as the architect who “builds.” The Church is built, not on confessions, but on confessors – living men (see, e.g., 1 Pet 2:5). Today, the overwhelming consensus of the great majority of all biblical scholars and commentators is in favor of the traditional Catholic understanding. Here St. Peter is spoken of as the foundation-stone of the Church, making him head and superior of the family of God (i.e., the seed of the doctrine of the papacy). Moreover, Rock embodies a metaphor applied to him by Christ in a sense analogous to the suffering and despised Messiah (1 Pet 2:4-8; cf. Mt 21:42). Without a solid foundation a house falls.
  • St. Peter is the foundation, but not founder of the Church,
  • administrator, but not Lord of the Church.
  • The Good Shepherd (John 10:11) gives us other shepherds as well (Eph 4:11).

2. Matthew 16:19 “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven . . .”

The “power of the keys” has to do with ecclesiastical discipline and administrative authority with regard to the requirements of the faith, as in Isaiah 22:22 (cf. Is 9:6; Job 12:14; Rev 3:7). From this power flows the use of censures, excommunication, absolution, baptismal discipline, the imposition of penances, and legislative powers. In the Old Testament a steward, or prime minister is a man who is “over a house” (Gen 41:40; 43:19; 44:4; 1 Ki 4:6; 16:9; 18:3; 2 Ki 10:5; 15:5; 18:18; Is 22:15,20-21).

3. Matthew 16:19 “. . . whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

“Binding” and “loosing” were technical rabbinical terms, which meant to “forbid” and “permit” with reference to the interpretation of the law, and secondarily to “condemn” or “place under the ban” or “acquit.” Thus, St. Peter and the popes are given the authority to determine the rules for doctrine and life, by virtue of revelation and the Spirit’s leading (John 16:13), and to demand obedience from the Church. “Binding and loosing” represent the legislative and judicial powers of the papacy and the bishops (Mt 18:17-18; Jn 20:23). St. Peter, however, is the only apostle who receives these powers by name and in the singular, making him preeminent.

4. Peter’s name occurs first in all lists of apostles (Mt 10:2; Mk 3:16; Lk 6:14; Acts 1:13). Matthew even calls him the “first” (10:2). Judas Iscariot is invariably mentioned last.

5. Peter is almost without exception named first whenever he appears with anyone else. In one (only?) example to the contrary, Galatians 2:9, where he (“Cephas”) is listed after James and before John, he is clearly preeminent in the entire context (e.g., 1:18-19; 2:7-8).

6. Peter alone among the apostles receives a new name, Rock, solemnly conferred (Jn 1:42; Mt 16:18).

7. Likewise, Peter is regarded by Jesus as the Chief Shepherd after Himself (Jn 21:15-17), singularly by name, and over the universal Church, even though others have a similar but subordinate role (Acts 20:28; 1 Pet 5:2).

8. Peter alone among the apostles is mentioned by name as having been prayed for by Jesus Christ in order that his “faith may not fail” (Lk 22:32).

9. Peter alone among the apostles is exhorted by Jesus to “strengthen your brethren” (Lk 22:32).

10. Peter first confesses Christ’s divinity (Mt 16:16).

11. Peter alone is told that he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation (Mt 16:17).

12. Peter is regarded by the Jews (Acts 4:1-13) as the leader and spokesman of Christianity.

13. Peter is regarded by the common people in the same way (Acts 2:37-41; 5:15).

14. Jesus Christ uniquely associates Himself and Peter in the miracle of the tribute-money (Mt 17:24-27).

15. Christ teaches from Peter’s boat, and the miraculous catch of fish follows (Lk 5:1-11): perhaps a metaphor for the pope as a “fisher of men” (cf. Mt 4:19).

16. Peter was the first apostle to set out for, and enter the empty tomb (Lk 24:12; Jn 20:6).
17. Peter is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the apostles (Mk 16:7).

18. Peter leads the apostles in fishing (Jn 21:2-3,11). The “bark” (boat) of Peter has been regarded by Catholics as a figure of the Church, with Peter at the helm.

19. Peter alone casts himself into the sea to come to Jesus (Jn 21:7).

20. Peter’s words are the first recorded and most important in the upper room before Pentecost (Acts 1:15-22).

21. Peter takes the lead in calling for a replacement for Judas (Acts 1:22).

22. Peter is the first person to speak (and only one recorded) after Pentecost, so he was the first Christian to “preach the gospel” in the Church era (Acts 2:14-36).

23. Peter works the first miracle of the Church Age, healing a lame man (Acts 3:6-12).

24. Peter utters the first anathema (Ananias and Sapphira) emphatically affirmed by God (Acts 5:2-11)!

25. Peter’s shadow works miracles (Acts 5:15).

continued...
 
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