Where does the Pope get his authority?

[BreadOfLife]

You claimed I said Jesus did not speak Aramaic which is a lie!!!!
You are a deceiver !!!

Show me where I mad this claim - or apologize for LYING.

I said Jesus was trilingual as was His disciples.
You also claimed Jesus did not teach in greek.
Which was also wrong. You ain't schooling nobody.

Here you are using a straw man to deceive others into thinking I taught Jesus did not speak Aramaic.

I taught Jesus was trilingual. THREFORE I TAUGHT JESUS SPOKE ARAMAIC

Again this is either a bold face lie or ignorance on display.

Matthew 16:18-19 was orginally written in Koine greek.
Later translated in other languages.

You don't know what you are talking about or you are intentionally deceiving others.
Which is it?

You keep raving on like a lunatric.
I NEVER said the things YOU are claiming and I didn't present a strawman.

I merely educated you about the fact that Jesus spoke ARAMAIC to His Apostles.
"Kepha" is an Aramaic word - NOT Greek.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You dont know what you're talking about.
Jesus taught, in Greek spoke in Greek along with His disciples.
The predominant language in Galilee at this time was Greek. Not Aramaic!!!

Okay, Einstein - explain why He used words like -
"Talitha koum"- Mat 5:3
"Ephphatha" Mark 7:34
"Eli, Eli lama sabathani" verse Matt. 27:46

That ain't Greek . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

More ignorance from BreadofLife.
At the least ignorance at worst willfull deception.

THE EARLIEST MANUSCRIPTS ARE WRITTEN IN KOINE GREEK.
ALL ARAMAIC TRANSLATIONS WERE TRANSLATED FROM THE GREEK.

Bread of life claims the Greek was translated from the aramaic.
Also the predominant language was first Greek, second Aramaic third Hebrew

That is a truly ignorant sdyayement
Most historians don't even make that claim because ut us impossible to know. We don't even have a complete original text.

Secondly - wheter the original manuscriptut of Matthew was written in Greek or Aramaic - or Chimese is completely irrelevant. MOST scolrs teach that Jesus spoke Aramaic.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Here you are using a straw man to deceive others into thinking I taught Jesus did not speak Aramaic.

BofL said no such thing. Please use the quote feature and knock off the slander.

Jesus taught, in Greek spoke in Greek along with His disciples.
The predominant language in Galilee at this time was Greek. Not Aramaic!!!

It is the general consensus of religious scholars and historians that Jesus and his disciples primarily spoke Aramaic, the traditional language of Judea in the first century AD. Their Aramaic was most likely a Galilean accent distinct from that of Jerusalem. Jesus spent most of his time in the communities of Nazareth and Capernaum in Galilee, which were Aramaic-speaking villages. The Gospels support this view showing Jesus using various Aramaic terms: talitha koum (Mark 5:41); ephphatha (Mark 7:34); eloi eloi lama sabachthani (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34); abba (Mark 14:36). Historians, scientists, and social anthropologists largely agree that Aramaic was the prevalent language in Israel during Jesus’ time. Aramaic was very similar to Hebrew, but with many terms and expressions that were acquired from other languages and cultures, notably Babylonian.

Hebrew and Greek

Hebrew was used mostly by the scribes, teachers of the law, Pharisees, and Sadducees, the “religious elite.” Hebrew was likely spoken and read in the synagogues, so most people were likely capable to speak and understand some Hebrew. Because Greek was the language of the Romans, who ruled over Israel during Jesus’ time, Greek was the language of the political class and anyone who wanted to do commerce with the Romans. Being able to speak Greek was a very useful skill as it was the universal language at that time. However, some protested to use Greek because of hostility toward their Roman oppressors.

According to Dead Sea Scrolls archaeologist Yigael Yadin, Aramaic was the language of Hebrews until Simon Bar Kokhba's revolt. Yadin recognized the change from Aramaic to Hebrew in the texts he studied, which had been recorded during the period of the Bar Kokhba revolt. In his book, Yigael Yadin notes, "It is interesting that the earlier documents are written in Aramaic while the later ones are in Hebrew. Possibly the change was made by a special decree of Bar Kokhba who wanted to restore Hebrew as the official language of the state."

It is probable that Jesus knew the three common languages of the cultures around him during his life on Earth: Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek. From this knowledge, it is likely that Jesus spoke in whichever of the three languages was most suitable to the people He was communicating with.
What Language did Jesus Speak? Aramaic, Hebrew or Greek? <<NOT a Catholic source. But that doesn't matter to anti-Protestant bible cults, it's automatically wrong because a Protestant source was posted by a Catholic.

 

[Titus]

Most historians don't even make that claim because ut us impossible to know. We don't even have a complete original text

It is most likely the original was written in Greek because the oldest copies of the new testament are KOINE Greek.
I never claimed the orginal was Greek anyways. You just made another strawman!
,!The most ignorant statement was you claiming Jesus and His disciples did not speak Greek to one another,

Time for a Bibe Lesson and a Linguistics Lesson . . .

First of all, you need to remember that Jesus and the Apostles didn’t speak Greek to each other.

 

[Titus]

Okay, Einstein - explain why He used words like -
"Talitha koum"- Mat 5:3
"Ephphatha" Mark 7:34
"Eli, Eli lama sabathani" verse Matt. 27:46

That ain't Greek

The same reason why He used Greek words like petra and petros.
The same reason why He also used Hebrew words.

Its because they(jews) specifically from Galilee were trilingual.
They spoke in different languages.

You are claiming the gospel of Matthew was first translated in aramaic then greek.

NO PROOF TO YOUR CLAIM.
FACT: THE OLDEST MANUSCRIPT OF MATTHEW THAT WE HAVE IS WRITTEN IN KOINE GREEK.

You just make stuff up

 

[BreadOfLife]

It is most likely the original was written in Greek because the oldest copies of the new testament are KOINE Greek.
I never claimed the orginal was Greek anyways. You just made another strawman!

Ummm, YOU said:
"ALL ARAMAIC TRANSLATIONS WERE TRANSLATED FROM THE GREEK."

Soooo, what did you mean by that?

,!The most ignorant statement was you claiming Jesus and His disciples did not speak Greek to one another,

There is NO evidence that they did.
ALL evidence points to Aramaic.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

It is most likely the original was written in Greek because the oldest copies of the new testament are KOINE Greek.

Oldest copies were translations from Aramaic to the written Greek, not the other way around. BTW, there is no such thing as a divine human language. GREEK is not a divine language. Matthew translated Jesus' Aramaic words into Greek and that's where you are confused. "Simon bar Jonah" is not a Greek name.

The most ignorant statement was you claiming Jesus and His disciples did not speak Greek to one another,

I don't think anyone said that. Bible cults reject non-Catholic scholars and historians especially when they conflict with their anti-Catholic agenda. You offer no scholarly support for your cult of Greek.

 

[Titus]

That was translated from the Aramaic to the Greek, not the other way around. BTW, there is no such thing as a divine human language. GREEK is not a divine language

Wrong, you are making stuff up.
Did I ever say Greek was a divine language?
You guys are the kings of making straw men

 

[Titus]

I don't think anyone said that

Referring to Bread of Life's claim that Jesus did not speak in Greek language.
Here it is for the what 5th time? I've lost track how many times I've posted it already!!!!

Time for a Bibe Lesson and a Linguistics Lesson . . .

First of all, you need to remember that Jesus and the Apostles didn’t speak Greek to each other.

 

[Titus]

I merely educated you about the fact that Jesus spoke ARAMAIC to His Apostles.
"Kepha" is an Aramaic word - NOT Greek

What you did was create a strawman by making it appear as if I didn't believe Jesus spoke in Aramaic.

YOU KNOW I ALREADY TOLD YOU HE WAS TRILINGUAL.
That's why you are a liar for "educating me about Jesus speaking Aramaic"
I already said He was trilingual.

You are intentionally misrepresenting me.

 

[Titus]

There is NO evidence that they did.
ALL evidence points to Aramaic

All this is about is catholics tryng to deceive folks into thinking Jesus did not use the Greek words
Petra and petros in Matthew 16:18-19.
Those are the words of Jesus.
Catholic doctrine is refuted with the Greek so you lie and say Matthew was translated in Aramaic.

NO ONE COMES TO TRUTH WITH OUTSIDE SOURCES LIKE SCHOLARS OR 2ND CENTURY LETTERS.

We get to the bottom of what's God BREATHED BY BOOK CHAPTER AND VERSE.

It's easy for me to prove Matthew 16:18-19 in Greek is sound because of what is taught by Paul in his letters.

I already refuted you guys. Y'all just pretend it didn't hapoen.


This is what you wish Jesus said,
Matthew 16:18-19,
- and thou art Peter(Kephas) and on this rock( Kephas) I will build My church

That's too vague,
More specifically what He said was,

- and thou art Peter(petros) and on this rock(petra) I will build My church.

Catholics claim this verse proves Jesus built His church on Peter.
So that they can claim Peter was the Head of the church on earth not Jesus.

Paul evidently was not catholic for he disagreed with their interpretation of who the Head of the church is.

Colossians 1:18,
- and Jesus is the  HEAD of the body the church who is the beginning the firstborn from the dead so that He Himself may have the PREEMINENCE

Paul refutes catholic doctrine.

They claim on earth Peter had authority.
Jesus Himself says He has ALL AUTHORITY ON EARTH,

Matthew 28:18,
- and Jesus came and spoke to them saying ALL AUTHORITY HAS BEEN GIVEN ME IN HEAVEN and ON EARTH.


This is the book of Matthew!!!! Jesus says He is the Head of the church for He has ALL authority on earth.

This proves Matthew 16:18-19 cannot be interpreted the way Catholics interpret Matthew.
The Catholics cause the book of Matthew to CONTRADICT ITSELF!!!!!

Did you know the first pope came in 606 A.D. ?
When Boniface lll was crowned as the first pope?

THR LORDS CHURCH HAD ALREADY BEEN IN EXISTENCE SOME 573 YEARS WHEN THIS OCCURRED.

Supposedly Peter was the first pope. That's just made up.
Even if he was(he's not)
Where did all the popes go from Peter to Boniface lll ?

Some 573 years and no new pope all that time.
If the scriptures really teach the church has popes.
Why is that long history quiet?

Now the catholics will make stuff up.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Wrong, you are making stuff up.
Did I ever say Greek was a divine language?

No, but you treat is as though it were. Jesus didn't write Matthew, Matthew wrote Matthew. He was a translator.

Matthew 28:18,
- and Jesus came and spoke to them saying ALL AUTHORITY HAS BEEN GIVEN ME IN HEAVEN and ON EARTH.

You left out the next verse, where Jesus gives HIS AUTHORITY to mere humans.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[ a]the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
What does "therefore" mean? See Strong's concordance. It's not a Catholic source.

 

[Titus]

No, but you treat is as though it were

You're full of beans

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Did you know the first pope came in 606 A.D. ?
When Boniface lll was crowned as the first pope?

Documentation, please.

THR LORDS CHURCH HAD ALREADY BEEN IN EXISTENCE SOME 573 YEARS WHEN THIS OCCURRED.

Supposedly Peter was the first pope. That's just made up.
Even if he was(he's not)
Where did all the popes go from Peter to Boniface lll ?

Documentation please.

Some 573 years and no new pope all that time.
If the scriptures really teach the church has popes.
Why is that long history quiet?

Now the catholics will make stuff up.

Where do you get these lies? You never say. Because if you cited your sources, you would expose yourself as a non-denominational Bible cultist.

 

[Titus]

Ummm, YOU said:
"ALL ARAMAIC TRANSLATIONS WERE TRANSLATED FROM THE GREEK."

Soooo, what did you mean by that?

Just what I said is what I mean.
The oldest COPIES of the new testament are KOINE greek
So all Aramaic translations that we currently have must be translated from Greek manuscripts.

It is speculation that the orginal gospel of Matthew was written in Aramaic

 

[Marymog]

Catholics baptize babies against their will. That is definitely not someone who has decided, catholics force their religion on them.

Hey Titus. Here is a Christian history lesson. Opposition to infant baptism began in the Middle Ages. Before that it was practiced and accepted by all Christians.

YOU want to deny infants, who have a God given soul, baptism. Scripture makes it clear that what your men taught you is wrong: Be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” “For the promise is to you and to your children.

You and your ilk don't want to hinder children from going to Him. What did Jesus say: “Now they were bringing even infants to him” “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven” “She was baptized, with her household” (Acts 16:15). He was baptized, with all his family” (Acts 16:33). I did baptize also the household of Stephanas” (1 Cor. 1:16). No infants in a household or family Titus?????????? .

Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision (Col. 2:11–12).

Your men have lied to you Titus. None the less, thanks for your opinion. I will stick with Scripture and 2,000 years of Christian history.

 

[RedFan]

It MUST be exactly the same as the other apostles friend,
Ephesians 4:5,
- one Lord, ONE FAITH(GOSPEL), One baptism

Since there is one gospel it cannot be different from one apostle to another.

That's not the question I thought we were discussing. Rather, I thought we were discussing whether Paul was telling the Thessalonians in 2 Thess. 2:15 to

A. Stand firm to the traditions you received from the original apostles,

vs.

B. Stand firm to the tradition you received from me and from Silas and from Timothy -- which, by the way, is the same tradition the original apostles of Jesus Christ are preaching elsewhere (at least, NOW THAT I'VE STRAIGHTENED PETER OUT. SEE MY LETTER TO THE GALATIANS).

 

[Marymog]

You haven't been following our conversation otherwise you would not of posted this

YOU asked "What two traditions? I gave a clear reference to Scripture on what those two traditions are. Tell me where I went wrong!

Patient Mary

 

[Titus]

Wow, to you someone who believes in the Bible only is a cultist.
If I believed in what your denominational church teaches.
Then I would be credible to you.

You don't believe in what the Bible teaches, therefore you don't believe the Bible,
2Timothy 3:17

Jude 3

Stop contradicting Matthew with your false doctrine!

Matthew 16:18-19. Catholic doctrine: Peter is the Head of the church, has authority on earth
Matthew 28: 18-19 Gods word: Jesus is the Head of the church, He has ALL AUTHORITY on earth

Colossians 1:18 Jesus is the Head of the church.

Exegesis: Matthew 16:18-19 Peter cannot be the Head because it contradicts Matthew in 28:18-19
Jesus must be building His church on Peter's confession that is revelation from God not on Peter himself in Matthew 16:18-19

You are making a mess of the Scriptures