When we die, do we ……
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I will stick to the bible Jesus went to hell to get the souls that don't belong there it also says in the bible the the Saints were seen leaving their tombs I am assuming the bible is speaking of their souls rising.The bible seems to indicate it happened right after the sacrifice after Jesus had risen.The word Saint means someone who is saved.
In traditional Christian theology, the Harrowing of Hell, or "the descent of Christ into Hell" or Hades, is the saving act of Christ to the souls in Hades between His Crucifixion and Resurrection. In triumphant descent, Christ preached and bestowed salvation to the souls held captive there since the beginning of the world.
Matthew 27:52-53 American Standard Version (ASV) and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised; and coming forth out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many.
Remember we were all condemned to hell in the fall every last one of us for any sin.The only ones who were not are the ones God rewarded for their faithfulness and took them straight to heaven.Enoch is one that was taken without dying.
In traditional Christian theology, the Harrowing of Hell, or "the descent of Christ into Hell" or Hades, is the saving act of Christ to the souls in Hades between His Crucifixion and Resurrection. In triumphant descent, Christ preached and bestowed salvation to the souls held captive there since the beginning of the world.
Matthew 27:52-53 American Standard Version (ASV) and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised; and coming forth out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many.
Remember we were all condemned to hell in the fall every last one of us for any sin.The only ones who were not are the ones God rewarded for their faithfulness and took them straight to heaven.Enoch is one that was taken without dying.
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Hobie
Well-Known Member
You turn to dust and wait for the resurrection.
Philippians 1:23 KJV
For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Here Paul appears to believe that departing from here means going to be with Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8 KJV
6) Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7) (For we walk by faith, not by sight)
8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Here, Paul wrote that being at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord, and he'd rather be absent from the body, to be present with the Lord, so again, I'd say Paul presents the view that when we are no longer here, we are there with Jesus.
This seems like the right answer to me, considering in Colossians 3, "we are hid with Christ in God". In Ephesians 2,
Ephesians 2:6 KJV
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Our citizenship is in heaven. But are we actually absent from the Lord now? Isn't He living in us? But we don't see Him. We see through our terrestrial senses. But when these eyes close, I believe we will see Him.
Much love!
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
“35 While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's house certain which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further? 36 As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe. 37 And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James. 38 And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly. 39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth. 40 And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying. 41 And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise. 42 And straightway the damsel arose, and walked; for she was of the age of twelve years. And they were astonished with a great astonishment. ”
Mark 5:35-42 KJV
“11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him. ”
John 11:11-15 KJV
Mark 5:35-42 KJV
“11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him. ”
John 11:11-15 KJV
Lambano
Well-Known Member
The Bible supports both views.
I don't know what time and perception are like on THAT side of reality, so don't know if the question is answerable.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
The Christian hope is the resurrection at the second coming, when Jesus comes to take us home to those places He has prepared.
“1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. ”
John 14:1-3 KJV
“15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ (those sleeping) shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. ”
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 KJV
“1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. ”
John 14:1-3 KJV
“15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ (those sleeping) shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. ”
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 KJV
Depends on what you believe in your heart. Fulfillment perspective my view see me dying, judgement, resurrection and either the ability to walk into the Kingdom of God, or be outside of it. That’s what is seen revelation 21,22. Many people believe no more sea has to do with the world, but it’s “brazen sea.” It represents the temple no longer standing, which was no longer there in this new vision John receives, and the new earth is the new administration under Christ Yeshua.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
God opened my eyes to see into the invisible world around us. I saw angels. These are the ministering angels the Apostle Paul mentioned. They are there to give God's elect a first-class trip into the presence of Christ when you die. Many Christians in Hospitals and homes, when dying, see angels shortly before death.
@Hobie and @Jay Ross
Didn't Jesus already answer your beliefs with Martha's understanding? Wasn't He correcting her understanding?
John 11:24-26 (KJV) Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
To me also is this scripture.. to me means we won't be at the end time Judgement... we have already been judged at our death/life.
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Didn't Jesus already answer your beliefs with Martha's understanding? Wasn't He correcting her understanding?
John 11:24-26 (KJV) Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
To me also is this scripture.. to me means we won't be at the end time Judgement... we have already been judged at our death/life.
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
You place too much faith in visions and spiritual manifestations. Satan is a liar, and counterfeits the truth. Put your faith in the word of God. Scripture. The final and only arbiter of truth.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Jesus is truth, and everything He says is truth. I've talked to Satan and he is a liar and father of lies, and there is no truth in him. I've seen and talked to angels.
You are like a lot of Christians that if the Holy Spirit doesn't speak to you, He doesn't speak to anyone. Even though Jesus said He would.
John 16:13 - However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
How is it that 'dead' is not understood as 'dead'? I find that peculiar and interesting. Peculiar because what other word could one use that tells it as it is? Interesting because we as people have the ability to make anything mean anything in our own heads. As an example, the pagan nations have adopted the idea of an idol being worthy of hearing and seeing.....and if one wants to believe pigs fly then I guess for that person they fly.
If you are unfamiliar with the following text and you could be bothered looking it up you might find it insightful.
Isaiah 44:9-20
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 44:9-20. Israel was steeped in idol worship, that is what this verse is about.
Jesus knows everything you do in public and private, and He says nothing will be hidden. Your life will be on Heavens big screen and all, everybody, and anyone, will see your whole life. Unless your sins are forgiven in Christ Jesus, then its blank. Step out of the Old Testament and into the Grace of Christ Jesus. He was the first fruits to be risen so all that belong to Him rises with Him. The sting of death is removed now.
Jesus knows everything you do in public and private, and He says nothing will be hidden. Your life will be on Heavens big screen and all, everybody, and anyone, will see your whole life. Unless your sins are forgiven in Christ Jesus, then its blank. Step out of the Old Testament and into the Grace of Christ Jesus. He was the first fruits to be risen so all that belong to Him rises with Him. The sting of death is removed now.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Then how come you have at all so wrong? You ignore scripture, and listen to voices and dreams. The OT is no less inspired and a revelation of truth as the NT. The NT doesn't contradict the old.
Taken
Well-Known Member
We…soul saved….body dies…living soul departs the body….body buried…living soul goes straight to heaven to await judgement.
We…not soul saved…body dies…living soul departs the body … body buried…living soul goes straight to hell, to await judgement.
Glory to God,
Taken
This is only option if Jesus has not had the victory. From the fulfillment perspective.
I believe all die, judged immediately resurrected condemned or of life or of better resurrection, placed either outside or inside the Kingdom, this is the picture many don’t accept when it comes to Revelation 21,22, as many see it or don’t even read or see what it offers once the age has ended. That age being the Mosaic Age, that lasted a long time until finding ending in 70Ad.
lol… people need to look into their hearts and read the Bible concerning these things for a good answer? And the victory leads to all being resurrected, but not all entering into the kingdom.
I don’t pose this as a combative feature these are just these are just the perspectives.
If Jesus has not had the victory you die, and you got the Sheol just like everyone did in the past and you wait for your resurrection.
All the best Taken, just sharing an opposing view but not in a combative way cause I believe people need seek guidance from the Holy Spirit asking Yahweh for guidance and wisdom while really overviewing the Bible, if the so choose.
Love to all! Thank you, respectfully,
Matthew
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