When did Daniel 7:13-14 happen?

[Truth7t7]

I don't reject a literal second coming but that verse from revelation chapter 1 is a coming in judgement against Israel in 70AD

Marty, Scott openly denies a future literal, visible, return of Jesus Christ in the heavens, no scripture is attached to his claim below in item #3, and you gave this response a big "LIKE"

Its my opinion that you agree with his claims in item #3 below?

Topic, Item #3 Below

Quote Scott, Post # 111 Below

1. Yes, every eye sees Jesus coming in the clouds, which is to say, in the spirit after the resurrection.
2. The second coming according to Paul is "each one in his own order."
3. Your next question about a literal, presumably worldly visible 2nd coming, is not biblical, as Christ said, "the kingdom of God does not come by observation." Thus, it is a spiritual event, that is, an event that is in the presence of God whom is spirit...the only possible way that every eye can see.

 

[Marty fox]

Marty you clearly state "These Books" and mention the book of "Daniel" and claim it was written to past generations on warnings of "Soon Coming" persecutions

Marty You aren't going to erase your claims below as if it didn't take place, your claims below are "Wrong", the book of Daniel is prophetic on future events that are unfulfilled

Quote Marty Post #134 Below

Or this happened in the past during Daniels day like we see in the book of Daniel.

We need to remember that these books weren’t written to us they were written to past generations. They are for us but not written to us.

They were warnings to people of soon coming persecutions to give them hope and let them know that the faithful would prevail through them.

You often have a way to misunderstand or miss quote me.

I have never claimed that every event in Revelation or Daniel has taken place. They were written to people in the past of soon coming persecutions but there was more than that like the last couple of chapters of revelation or the ending of Daniel chapter 12.

As Daniel said King Neberkenezer was the head of gold.

 

[Marty fox]

Marty, Scott openly denies a future literal, visible, return of Jesus Christ in the heavens, no scripture is attached to his claim below in item #3, and you gave this response a big "LIKE"

Its my opinion that you agree with his claims in item #3 below?

Quote Scott, Post # 111 Below

1. Yes, every eye sees Jesus coming in the clouds, which is to say, in the spirit after the resurrection.
2. The second coming according to Paul is "each one in his own order."
3. Your next question about a literal, presumably worldly visible 2nd coming, is not biblical, as Christ said, "the kingdom of God does not come by observation." Thus, it is a spiritual event, that is, an event that is in the presence of God whom is spirit...the only possible way that every eye can see.

#1 is a direct reference to Revelation chapter 1:7

 

[Truth7t7]

So be it. So shall it be written.

Sounds like (Pharaoh, Yul Brenner) in the 10 commandments, when (Moses, Charleton Heston) was stricken from the Egyptian records, Big Smiles!

 

[Truth7t7]

#1 is a direct reference to Revelation chapter 1:7

Once Again, Topic Item #3 Below, No Scripture Is Referenced, Scott Makes A Blanket Statement On The Second Coming Not Being Literal, And Visible

Its my opinion that you agree with his claims in item #3 below?

Quote Scott, Post # 111 Below

1. Yes, every eye sees Jesus coming in the clouds, which is to say, in the spirit after the resurrection.
2. The second coming according to Paul is "each one in his own order."
3. Your next question about a literal, presumably worldly visible 2nd coming, is not biblical, as Christ said, "the kingdom of God does not come by observation." Thus, it is a spiritual event, that is, an event that is in the presence of God whom is spirit...the only possible way that every eye can see.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I read your response #2 and I disagree

Jesus "Came" with the clouds of heaven

Jesus doesn't "Go" with the clouds of heaven, as Marty claims it is depicting the ascension "Wrong"

The depiction is the second coming and final judgment (The End) the scripture is clear and simple

Daniel 7:9-10KJV
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

I see the second coming of the Lord in the heavens in Daniel 7:13, with Daniel 7:14 being a parallel teaching of Revelation 11:15, Jesus Kingdom for ever and ever after the second coming "Future"

Jesus comes to the Ancient of days at the second coming (The End) when Jesus delivers the Kingdom to the father

Daniel 7:13 & 1 Corinthians 15:23-24 are parallel teachings of the same event

1 Corinthians 15:23-24KJV
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Daniel 7:13-14KJV
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Revelation 11:15KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

I don't find this argument regarding the words "came" and "go" to be convincing at all. He can come to heaven or He can come to earth. At His ascension from earth, He came to heaven (from earth). The word "came" does not have to imply Him coming from heaven to earth as you are insisting. Daniel 7:13-14 says the Son of Man, Jesus, came to the Ancient of Days, which is the Father. Where would Jesus come to be in the presence of the Father? In heaven. It doesn't seem like you are considering this.

I showed a passage that speaks of His ascension (Ephesians 1:19-23) which is very similar to Daniel 7:13-14, but you said nothing about that. Do you not see the similarities between Daniel 7:13-14 and Ephesians 1:19-23?

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't find this argument regarding the word "came" and "go" to be convincing at all. He can come to heaven or He can come to earth. At His ascension from earth, He came to heaven (from earth). The word "came" does not have to imply Him coming from heaven to earth as you are insisting. Daniel 7:13-14 says the Son of Man, Jesus, came to the Ancient of Days, which is the Father. Where would Jesus come to be in the presence of the Father? In heaven. It doesn't seem like you are considering this.

I showed a passage that speaks of His ascension (Ephesians 1:19-23) which is very similar to Daniel 7:13-14, but you said nothing about that. Do you not see the similarities between Daniel 7:13-14 and Ephesians 1:19-23?

We Disagree

Scripture clearly teaches "Go" and "Come"

Marty's claim is silenced in the ascension being seen in Daniel Chapter 7:13-14 as previously explained

Acts 1:11KJV
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We Disagree

And that's fine. But, I'm not sure if you're understanding my points or not. If you understand my points but still disagree, so be it.

Scripture clearly teaches "Go" and "Come"

Again, Daniel 7:13-14 talks about Him coming into the presence of the Father. Where would that be? In heaven. Clearly, He doesn't come to be in the presence of the Father on earth.

Marty's claim is silenced in the ascension being seen in Daniel Chapter 7:13-14 as previously explained

Acts 1:11KJV
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

I understand your reasoning, but, again, Daniel 7:13-14 talks about Him coming into the presence of the Father. Where would He come into the presence of the Father? Clearly not on earth. So, the answer is heaven. It seems like you're not taking this into consideration.

I hope you realize that believing that Daniel 7:13-14 refers to Christ's ascension does not require someone to also believe He already came long ago or anything like that. That isn't what I believe. Daniel 7:13-14 has a different context than passages like Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[Marty fox]

Once Again, Topic Item #3 Below, No Scripture Is Referenced, Scott Makes A Blanket Statement On The Second Coming Not Being Literal, And Visible

Its my opinion that you agree with his claims in item #3 below?

Quote Scott, Post # 111 Below

1. Yes, every eye sees Jesus coming in the clouds, which is to say, in the spirit after the resurrection.
2. The second coming according to Paul is "each one in his own order."
3. Your next question about a literal, presumably worldly visible 2nd coming, is not biblical, as Christ said, "the kingdom of God does not come by observation." Thus, it is a spiritual event, that is, an event that is in the presence of God whom is spirit...the only possible way that every eye can see.

I do believe in a literal second coming but its not in Matthew 24 or revelation 1

 

[Truth7t7]

And that's fine. But, I'm not sure if you're understanding my points or not. If you understand my points but still disagree, so be it.

Again, Daniel 7:13-14 talks about Him coming into the presence of the Father. Where would that be? In heaven. Clearly, He doesn't come to be in the presence of the Father on earth.

I understand your reasoning, but, again, Daniel 7:13-14 talks about Him coming into the presence of the Father. Where would He come into the presence of the Father? Clearly not on earth. So, the answer is heaven. It seems like you're not taking this into consideration.

I hope you realize that believing that Daniel 7:13-14 refers to Christ's ascension does not require someone to also believe He already came long ago or anything like that. That isn't what I believe. Daniel 7:13-14 has a different context than passages like Matthew 24:29-31.

The context of the scripture seen below is the second coming of Jesus Christ and the final judgment

That seen below isn't the Lords ascension that took place in roughly 33AD as Marty claims

The horse is dead on my end, in Love

Jesus Is The Lord

Daniel 7:10-13KJV
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

 

[Marty fox]

The context of the scripture seen below is the second coming of Jesus Christ and the final judgment

That seen below isn't the Lords ascension that took place in roughly 33AD as Marty claims

The horse is dead on my end, in Love

Jesus Is The Lord

Daniel 7:10-13KJV
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Except for the direct Jesus is going on the clouds is the wrong way Hes going to heaven not too the earth

 

[Truth7t7]

Except for the direct Jesus is going on the clouds is the wrong way Hes going to heaven not too the earth

Marty you deny a future literal, visible, second coming of Jesus in the heavens is seen in Matthew 24:30 & Revelation 1:7 below

Marty I honestly don't take your views of eschatology serious, and this is a prime example of why

That seen below in scripture is the very same event in the future literal, visible, second coming of Jesus in the heavens, it's pretty simple

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Daniel 7:13KJV
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

 

[Marty fox]

Marty you deny a future literal, visible, second coming of Jesus in the heavens is seen in Matthew 24:30 & Revelation 1:7 below

Marty I honestly don't take your views of eschatology serious, and this is a prime example of why

That seen below in scripture is the very same event in the future literal, visible, second coming of Jesus in the heavens, it's pretty simple

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Daniel 7:13KJV
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

How can you say that and then deny that Jesus is going to heaven in the verse below when the verse gives the direction?

Daniel 7:13
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.

Where would the Farther be?

 

[Truth7t7]

And that's fine. But, I'm not sure if you're understanding my points or not. If you understand my points but still disagree, so be it.

Again, Daniel 7:13-14 talks about Him coming into the presence of the Father. Where would that be? In heaven. Clearly, He doesn't come to be in the presence of the Father on earth.

I understand your reasoning, but, again, Daniel 7:13-14 talks about Him coming into the presence of the Father. Where would He come into the presence of the Father? Clearly not on earth. So, the answer is heaven. It seems like you're not taking this into consideration.

I hope you realize that believing that Daniel 7:13-14 refers to Christ's ascension does not require someone to also believe He already came long ago or anything like that. That isn't what I believe. Daniel 7:13-14 has a different context than passages like Matthew 24:29-31.

We Disagree

That seen below in scripture is the very same event in the future literal, visible, second coming of Jesus in the heavens, it's pretty simple

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Daniel 7:13KJV
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

 

[Truth7t7]

I do believe in a literal second coming but its not in Matthew 24 or revelation 1

You believe in a literal second coming "OK"

Marty "HOW" and "WHEN" does your second coming take place, "please explain"?

 

[Marty fox]

You believe in a literal second coming "OK"

Marty "HOW" and "WHEN" does your second coming take place, "please explain"?

At the end of the world
Matthew 16:27
Matthew 25:31-33
Matthew 13:40-43 47:50
The 7th trumpet in Revelation 11
Revelation 20:9-10

 

[Truth7t7]

At the end of the world
Matthew 16:27
Matthew 25:31-33
Matthew 13:40-43 47:50
The 7th trumpet in Revelation 11
Revelation 20:9-10

Thanks for the response

Do you believe Jesus will return, being revealed in the heavens?

2 Thessalonians 1:7KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[Marty fox]

Thanks for the response

Do you believe Jesus will return, being revealed in the heavens?

2 Thessalonians 1:7KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

No problem and yes I do

 

[Truth7t7]

No problem and yes I do

Marty 2 Thessalonians 1:7 & Matthew 24:30-31 Are The Very Same Event Below, Both Are Literal

Marty You Remove The Literal In Matthew 24:30, To Allow For A Preterist 70AD Great Tribulation In Roman Armies In Destruction Of Jerusalem, A Supposed Symbolic Judgement, Not A Literal Second Coming

Pretty Hard To Have A 70AD Tribulation, And A Literal Second Coming Immediately After This Tribulation, So "Remove The Literal Second Coming Through Symbolic Allegory" That's Seen In Matthew 24:30

Marty Believes 2 Thessalonians 1:7 Is A Literal Jesus And Angels, At A Literal Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 1:7KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Marty Believes Matthew 24:30 Isn't A Literal Second Coming, But Is A Symbolic Jesus And Angels, Representing A Judgement Upon Israel/Jerusalem In 70AD

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Marty fox]

Marty 2 Thessalonians 1:7 & Matthew 24:30-31 Are The Very Same Event Below, Both Are Literal

Marty You Remove The Literal In Matthew 24:30, To Allow For A Preterist 70AD Great Tribulation In Roman Armies In Destruction Of Jerusalem, A Supposed Symbolic Judgement, Not A Literal Second Coming

Pretty Hard To Have A 70AD Tribulation, And A Literal Second Coming Immediately After This Tribulation, So "Remove The Literal Second Coming Through Symbolic Allegory" That's Seen In Matthew 24:30

Marty Believes 2 Thessalonians 1:7 Is A Literal Jesus And Angels, At A Literal Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 1:7KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Marty Believes Matthew 24:30 Isn't A Literal Second Coming, But Is A Symbolic Jesus And Angels, Representing A Judgement Upon Israel/Jerusalem In 70AD

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

There's no clouds in the verses that I provided that's the difference.