When are the dead and living in Christ caught up to the Lord?

[The Light]

No place in the holy Bible is a "Pre-Trib" rapture mentioned

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Rev 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Pretrib rapture

Amen! And yet the Living Word has foretold told us:

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-5 (NKJV)


View attachment 48806PEtRA

Yes.
I also adhere to the pretrib rapture.
You just declared the AC is REVEALED (not yet in power) at the pretrib rapture.
Thank you for affirming the pretrib rapture.
No brainer since all rapture verses are pretrib setting.
I agree there is not a single postrib rapture verse.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I Disagree, You haven't debunked a thing

Reread mat 24...maybe slowly

Then stop denying the Holy Bible

 

[The Light]

Pretrib rapture
Yes.
I also adhere to the pretrib rapture.
You just declared the AC is REVEALED (not yet in power) at the pretrib rapture.
Thank you for affirming the pretrib rapture.
No brainer since all rapture verses are pretrib setting.
I agree there is not a single postrib rapture verse.

This is post trib......at the 6th seal.

1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

This is pre trib before the great tribulation.

1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[honeycomb]

Pretrib rapture
Yes.
I also adhere to the pretrib rapture.
You just declared the AC is REVEALED (not yet in power) at the pretrib rapture.
Thank you for affirming the pretrib rapture.
No brainer since all rapture verses are pretrib setting.
I agree there is not a single postrib rapture verse.

You misunderstood me. I don’t believe in a pretrib rapture. Satan appears at the sixth seal, the sixth trump, and the sixth vial (666). Jesus appears AFTER Satan has been here doing his evil deeds and claiming to be God. Jesus appears at the seventh seal, the seventh trump, and the seventh vial (777).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Rev 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Revelation 3:10 has absolutely nothing to do with a pre-trib rapture. The words "keep" and "from" are translated from the Greek words "tereo" and "ek". Here is the only other verse where those words are used together like they are in Revelation 3:10...

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep (tereo) them from (ek) the evil.

Jesus prayed for just the opposite of what you believe will happen! Why are you blatantly contradicting His prayer like this? He prayed that God the Father would not take His followers out of the world, but that we would be protected from evil and temptation while still in the world. Trying to use Revelation 3:10 as evidence for a pre-trib rapture is a complete joke.

 

[The Light]

Revelation 3:10 has absolutely nothing to do with a pre-trib rapture. The words "keep" and "from" are translated from the Greek words "tereo" and "ek". Here is the only other verses where those words are used together like they are in Revelation 3:10...

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep (tereo) them from (ek) the evil.

Jesus prayed for just the opposite of what you believe will happen! Why are you blatantly contradicting His prayer like this? He prayed that God the Father would not take His followers out of the world, but that we would be protected from evil and temptation while still in the world. Trying to use Revelation 3:10 as evidence for a pre-trib rapture is a complete joke.

He did not ask God to take the disciples out the world because that is how the Gospel was to be spread. Additionally the use of tereo and ek........... keeping them from evil has nothing to do with........... I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world which uses the word airō. Every time you talk about the Greek you always manipulate the scripture.

Further, this verse comes before Rev 3:10

Rev 3
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

What do you think they are talking about when referring to a door that no man can open and no man can shut?

That is supported by Jesus saying he is coming.

Revelation 3
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

And then of course that is followed by Rev 4 showing 24 elders in heaven with crowns.

Revelation 4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

You can sit there and deny all the supporting scripture that tells us exactly what is going to happen and then manipulate the scripture to support your doctrine if you choose. The times draw nigh and you are not watching and ready as instructed.

 

[Truth7t7]

While I don't go as far as the @The Light does with those many listed resurrection events in comment #331, the Hebrews 9:28 KJV verse does NOT limit the coming appearance of Christ to ONLY two occasions. It only speaks of the second coming in particular, but it neither proves nor disproves another return after that. This verse cannot be used as a proof text for either position.

Just like scripture speaking of "the second miracle which Jesus did..." did not limit the miracles of Jesus to ONLY two of them.

Scripture clearly teaches there is one future resurrection of all, this takes place on the last day at the second coming of Jesus Christ (Then Cometh The End)

Your teaching of multiple comings and resurrections and comings is "False" Aeosop's Fables

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

[Truth7t7]

Luke 17
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

Matthew 24
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.


Obviously, the foolish virgins are not looking for Him to appear so He will not appear to them when He comes.

 

[Truth7t7]

Mat 24 says different.
Again...that magnificently debunks any hope of one coming.
A bonus is Rev 14.
You have no standing.

You quite 2 chapters and deny to post their content in support of your claims, because a pre-trib rapture isn't found in the holy bible

 

[Truth7t7]

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Rev 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Again you haven't provided anything to support your claims, standing before the Son of man is future and will take place at the second coming, final judgement, eternal kingdom

The hour of temptation will be seen shortly before the second coming of Jesus in the heavens, earthquakes, stars falling, etc

God's words gives the Church on earth instruction on how they will be kept from this, as the instruction is to enter one's dwelling and shut the door, just like the passover in Egypt

Isaiah 26:19-21KJV
19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

 

[Truth7t7]

Reread mat 24...maybe slowly

Then stop denying the Holy Bible

Child's play, quote your verses and give explanation

 

[3 Resurrections]

Scripture clearly teaches there is one future resurrection of all, this takes place on the last day at the second coming of Jesus Christ (Then Cometh The End)

As for that "END", 1 Peter 4:7 wrote that "the END of all things is AT HAND" as Peter was writing those words around AD 65. Something was coming to a close back then at the "LAST HOUR" that John said had arrived (1 John 2:18).

You are probably thinking that this phrase "then cometh the END" was the end of the planet's existence, but it was going to be "the end of the AGE" that Christ and Paul spoke about. There have been other ages since the end of THAT age back in the first century. At the end of that age, God put down all rule, authority, and power of the Old Covenant temple system which had already been rendered obsolete and dead by the inauguration of the New Covenant. He accomplished this by physically destroying the temple and the city of Jerusalem, with almost all of the priesthood killed by then. ALL of the saints that had died up to that time were bodily resurrected and "raptured" off the planet by the bodily returning Christ in AD 70, in fulfillment of 1 Cor. 15:24.

God would also (in that "shaking" process of both heaven and earth that He "NOW hath promised" in Hebrews 12:26-27), get rid of the entire Satanic realm of Satan who had been called "the Prince of this world". The world to come at that point was not going to be put in subjection to angels anymore (Heb. 2:5), since there was no need for any righteous angelic supervision of human affairs now that the Holy Spirit indwelt every single believer. The "Watcher" job description for the angels was disbanded back then.

You and I are now living in one of those "AGES (PLURAL) that are coming" (Eph. 2:7) which Paul spoke about from his first-century perspective on history's timeline. Our current age will have a culmination point also, with a final bodily resurrection event and judgment at Christ's final return.

 

[The Light]

Again you haven't provided anything to support your claims, standing before the Son of man is future and will take place at the second coming, final judgement, eternal kingdom

Again, the second coming occurs at the 6th seal when the Lord comes for the second harvest. He will remain in the clouds.

The hour of temptation will be seen shortly before the second coming of Jesus in the heavens, earthquakes, stars falling, etc

The hour of temptation occurs during the great tribulation which is over at the 6th seal.

God's words gives the Church on earth instruction on how they will be kept from this, as the instruction is to enter one's dwelling and shut the door, just like the passover in Egypt

Isaiah 26:19-21KJV
19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

It's obvious that you do not understand what this is talking about. This is not about the Church; The Church is already in heaven as seen in Rev 5. This is talking about the rapture that occurs at the 6th seal when the Lord comes for the harvest and to punish the world in the Day of the Lord..........the 7th seal.

At the 6th seal, MANY that sleep in the dust of the earth shall be raised.

 

[The Light]

You are probably thinking that this phrase "then cometh the END" was the end of the planet's existence, but it was going to be "the end of the AGE" that Christ and Paul spoke about. There have been other ages since the end of THAT age back in the first century.

The end of the age occurs at the 6th seal second harvest. The Day of the Lord then begins which is one year long.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He did not ask God to take the disciples out the world because that is how the Gospel was to be spread. Additionally the use of tereo and ek........... keeping them from evil has nothing to do with........... I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world which uses the word airō. Every time you talk about the Greek you always manipulate the scripture.

I'm manipulating nothing! I'm using scripture to interpret scripture. John 17:15 proves that being kept from temptation and evil does not require being taken out of the world. Instead of admitting the obvious, you are doubling down on your stubbornness.

Further, this verse comes before Rev 3:10

Rev 3
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

What do you think they are talking about when referring to a door that no man can open and no man can shut?

That is supported by Jesus saying he is coming.

Revelation 3
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

And then of course that is followed by Rev 4 showing 24 elders in heaven with crowns.

Revelation 4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

This proves absolutely nothing! The crowns are symbolic for authority. Who says that one has to have an immortal body to have a crown? Only you. Your entire doctrine hinges on symbolic text and has no clear, straightforward text to support it. Your arguments are very weak.

You can sit there and deny all the supporting scripture that tells us exactly what is going to happen and then manipulate the scripture to support your doctrine if you choose. The times draw nigh and you are not watching and ready as instructed.

LOL. You have no clear, straightforward scripture to support your doctrine and that is very obvious. You have to resort to using a description of 24 elders having crowns to supposedly support your doctrine even though it is not specified who the 24 elders are and never says that them having crowns of gold has anything to do with them having immortal bodies. Is this all you have to support your doctrine? That's weak. You can't be taken seriously.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You quite 2 chapters and deny to post their content in support of your claims, because a pre-trib rapture isn't found in the holy bible

As if the words of those 2 chapters would change your error.
But to not know what those comings of Jesus are, And His declaring we are to watch pre trib for His coming is on you.
You really did not know of 2 comings in Matt 24?
Or a coming of Jesus in Rev 14 during the trib?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Child's play, quote your verses and give explanation

JESUS said in mat 24"before the flood, one taken, one left."

Here it is. ( it makes zero difference to you)

Matt 24
38 For as in the days before the flood, they did [ac]eat and drink, marry, and give in marriage, unto the day that Noah entered into the Ark,

39 And knew nothing, till the flood came, and took them all away, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 [ad]Then two shall be in the fields, the one shall be received, and the other shall be refused.

41 [ae]Two women shall be grinding at the mill: the one shall be received, and the other shall be refused.

42 [af]Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your master will come.

Just the words of Jesus.
Most here ignore it.
It is child's play to them.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You misunderstood me. I don’t believe in a pretrib rapture. Satan appears at the sixth seal, the sixth trump, and the sixth vial (666). Jesus appears AFTER Satan has been here doing his evil deeds and claiming to be God. Jesus appears at the seventh seal, the seventh trump, and the seventh vial (777).

The AC is revealed pretrib.
You placed the rapture pretrib.

When is the Rapture?
At the white horses.
Jesus gathers Jewish main harvest, during the trib. .
Maybe you are "one coming", in opposition of the other comings in the Bible?

 

[ReChoired]

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.