When are the dead and living in Christ caught up to the Lord?

[The Light]

The tares are “Bound first”for to get ready “to”Burn them

Gather ye together first the tares, and “bind them”in bundles “to”burn them

Psalm 149:8-9​

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King James Version​

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8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the Lord.

And yet in Rev 14 we see the righteous are gathered first. They are completely reaped before the second angel cast the unrighteous into the wrath of God. The Lord reaps the righteous before the angel swings the sickle for the unrighteous.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Additionally, you were unable to address Daniel 12 and why MANY of them that sleep in the dust shall awake. If there is only a resurrection at the end of wrath, why do we see many raised BEFORE the wrath of God

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[rwb]

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Who is saying there is no resurrection of the dead? Even Paul, writing of what shall become of the saints after physical death acknowledges the bodily resurrection that shall be for the faithful saints when the last trumpet sounds.

1 Corinthians 15:50-54 (KJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

But Paul also tells us what the fate of those who die in faith shall be after our body breathes its last and before the last trumpet sounds. When our body is dead it is not resurrected to life again, it returns to dust. But our spirit made alive through the Holy Spirit of Christ possesses ETERNAL LIFE and cannot die as our body does. Through the power of the Holy Spirit Paul writes our spirit alive shall be raised up a spiritual body of believers to heaven to be with Christ there until the last trumpet sounds that time for man to be saved has come to an end. It is the living spiritual body of believers alive in heaven that John writes as having life after their heads had been chopped off. He is giving us comfort by repeating what Christ has said. Which is that physical death cannot keep us from the love of God that is found in Christ Jesus our Lord. Death has lost its power over all who have be born again of the Spirit of Christ that shall be with always.

We are dead and buried a natural physical body, the seed of flesh and blood. But after death the faithful are raised the seed of God that is Spirit. Christ gave us assurance that the life we have through Him shall never die, our life through His Spirit is ETERNAL. For that reason after our mortal, corruptible body has died, our spirit departs our lifeless body through the power of His Spirit and ascends to heaven a spiritual body of believers there, because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 15:37-38 (KJV) And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1 Corinthians 15:44-50 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[RedFan]

Who is saying there is no resurrection of the dead? Even Paul, writing of what shall become of the saints after physical death acknowledges the bodily resurrection that shall be for the faithful saints when the last trumpet sounds.

But Paul also tells us what the fate of those who die in faith shall be after our body breathes its last and before the last trumpet sounds. When our body is dead it is not resurrected to life again, it returns to dust.

What are you saying? Bodily resurrection yes, or bodily resurrection no?

 

[rwb]

What are you saying? Bodily resurrection yes, or bodily resurrection no?

There will be none bodily resurrected until the hour that is coming when the last trumpet sounds that time shall be no longer. Then ALL, both good and evil shall be bodily resurrected, those who have done good, resurrected immortal & incorruptible. And those who have done evil resurrected to stand before the great white throne judgment to give account unto God according to what is found written in the books and the book of life.

 

[RedFan]

There will be none bodily resurrected until the hour that is coming when the last trumpet sounds that time shall be no longer. Then ALL, both good and evil shall be bodily resurrected, those who have done good, resurrected immortal & incorruptible. And those who have done evil resurrected to stand before the great white throne judgment to give account unto God according to what is found written in the books and the book of life.

So, if I understand you,

When our body is dead it is not resurrected to life again

is not true.

 

[rwb]

So, if I understand you,

is not true.

The physical body of faithful saints will be immortal & incorruptible. The body we have now is mortal & corruptible returns to dust. The faithful will not be resurrected immortal & incorruptible body of flesh before the last trumpet sounds. Therefore, it makes no sense for some to argue there will be a first resurrection for saints when Christ comes again, and then live and reign with Christ on this earth for one thousand years. The only resurrection that takes place before we die is NOT of physical body, but is partaking of the bodily resurrection of Christ, Who alone has physically resurrected from the grave. We have part in His resurrection through His Spirit when our spirit is born again. The first resurrection is NOT saints being physically resurrected to physical life again as so many imagine.

 

[RedFan]

Let's nail this done without commentary. "When our body is dead it IS eventually resurrected to life again," True or False?

 

[honeycomb]

Sure. No worries.

Nope. Christ comes for His Church. He then comes for the second harvest at the sixth seal which is the gathering from heaven and earth.

You ought to be able to tell from the info below that Christ returns at the sixth seal. It is the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. He will remain in the clouds and gather the elect from heaven and earth. This is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


There is not a chance those seals are opened. The first 4 seals are the beginning of sorrows. The 5th seal is the great tribulation and the 6th seal is the second coming and second harvest before the Day of the Lord.........the day of vengeance.

It's a vision. John took the book from the angel and ate it so he could prophesy more as the angel told Him too. These are prophesies.

Are you saying that the Messiah comes at 666?

 

[rwb]

Let's nail this done without commentary. "When our body is dead it IS eventually resurrected to life again," True or False?

There is no question about our bodies being resurrected to life again. I would hope that we all agree every human body shall be resurrected to life again. The question is not if, but rather when?

 

[Ritajanice]

The physical body of faithful saints will be immortal & incorruptible. The body we have now is mortal & corruptible returns to dust. The faithful will not be resurrected immortal & incorruptible body of flesh before the last trumpet sounds. Therefore, it makes no sense for some to argue there will be a first resurrection for saints when Christ comes again, and then live and reign with Christ on this earth for one thousand years. The only resurrection that takes place before we die is NOT of physical body, but is partaking of the bodily resurrection of Christ, Who alone has physically resurrected from the grave. We have part in His resurrection through His Spirit when our spirit is born again. The first resurrection is NOT saints being physically resurrected to physical life again as so many imagine.

We will have a glorified body?

I’m being cremated...? My human body will be no more?

When we die do we receive that glorified body after death as we have the indwelling Holy Spirit in our spirit?

Where do we go at death of our human body?

Our spirit is in Christ Spirit, surely he will take us home to the Father?

 

[Ritajanice]

Let's nail this done without commentary. "When our body is dead it IS eventually resurrected to life again," True or False?

How can my body be resurrected back to life when it’s being cremated?

 

[rwb]

We will have a glorified body?

We will have glorified immortal & incorruptible body when the Lord comes again and we are caught up and changed when the last trumpet sounds.

When we die do we receive that glorified body after death as we have the indwelling Holy Spirit in our spirit?

The Holy Spirit within our spirit does not give us glorified body of flesh. Through the power of the Spirit within us, our spirit leaves our dead mortal body and ascends to heaven a living spiritual body.

Where do we go at death of our human body?

As I've said, our mortal body returns to dust and our spirit alive through the Spirit of Christ returns to God in heaven who gave it.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

And yet in Rev 14 we see the righteous are gathered first.

It does say that, those are YOUR words.

They are completely reaped before the second angel cast the unrighteous into the wrath of God. The Lord reaps the righteous before the angel swings the sickle for the unrighteous.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Notice it just says “the earth was reaped”

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

This is where the harvest of the earth is divided, the sheep from the goats, the wheat from the tares.

Additionally, you were unable to address Daniel 12 and why MANY of them that sleep in the dust shall awake. If there is only a resurrection at the end of wrath, why do we see many raised BEFORE the wrath of God

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The time of trouble and wrath of God on the world begins at the 6th seal, the resurrection of the dead in Christ happens “afterward”at the “last trump” at the “last day” per the words of God.

 

[Ritajanice]

We will have glorified immortal & incorruptible body when the Lord comes again and we are caught up and changed when the last trumpet sounds.



The Holy Spirit within our spirit does not give us glorified body of flesh. Through the power of the Spirit within us, our spirit leaves our dead mortal body and ascends to heaven a spiritual body.



As I've said, our mortal body returns to dust and our spirit alive through the Spirit of Christ returns to God in heaven who gave it.

Wow!!!...pretty exciting huh?

 

[The Light]

Are you saying that the Messiah comes at 666?

No, I'm saying that the second coming is at the 6th seal before the 7th seal wrath of God is opnened.

 

[3 Resurrections]

No harvest has taken place. I'm not sure where you get that there has been a harvest.

And yet in Rev 14 we see the righteous are gathered first. They are completely reaped before the second angel cast the unrighteous into the wrath of God. The Lord reaps the righteous before the angel swings the sickle for the unrighteous.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Here you are contradicting yourself. That WAS a past "harvest" in Revelation 14:14-16. It was the newly-resurrected and crowned Son of Man who by Himself (no angels assisting at this first resurrection harvest) reaped that "dried" harvest from the earth. Christ on the same day that He was resurrected raised the Matthew 27:52-53 saints to immortal life from those Jewish graves around Jerusalem. You can't turn a blind eye to this group of "many" Jewish saints who were raised to life again. It was a resurrection harvest, and it was the FIRST one, when the resurrected "Christ the First-fruits" led all 144,000 of those First-fruits out of the grave that same day.

How do you think that the error arose in those days of Hymenaeus and Philetus teaching that the resurrection was PAST already? (2 Timothy 2:17-18). Those two false teachers either knew about or had personally encountered some of those Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints. The mistaken error in their teaching was in presuming that the Matthew 27:52-53 saints being resurrected was the only resurrection "harvest" that would ever take place. They were wrong, of course, because there were going to be two more group resurrection events after that one.

Christ never came in 70AD. We see in the Book of Revelation that He has not come yet.

That is the common delusion. Revelation was describing the events that would happen prior to Christ's AD 70 return. This deluded viewpoint thinking that Christ did not return in AD 70 ignores Christ's own words of promise in Matthew 16:27-28 that He would return in the glory of HIs Father with the holy angels, giving rewards to everyone according to their works, and that this would happen while some of those He was then speaking to were still alive. People turn themselves into a pretzel trying to twist these words counter to their natural meaning. But almost every book of the NT also confirms this soon-coming return of Christ in that first-century generation. That second coming of Christ with a second resurrection "harvest" has already happened on Pentecost Day in AD 70, just as Daniel 12:11-13 predicted.

 

[The Light]

It does say that, those are YOUR words.

OK. You can pretend that the earth is not reaped by the Messiah before the angel swings the sickle for the unrighteous if you want. You have to ignore what is written to prove your doctrine.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

Notice it just says “the earth was reaped”

This is where the harvest of the earth is divided, the sheep from the goats, the wheat from the tares.

No sir. This is the harvest of the seed of the woman the twelve tribes across the earth. Why do you think that there are 144,000 first fruits?

They are the first fruits of the fall fruit harvest.

Rev 14
Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

Why do you think that those that come out of great tribulation are singing the song of Moses........they are Jews.

Revelation 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

The time of trouble and wrath of God on the world begins at the 6th seal,

Absolutely not. The time of trouble, the great tribulation begins when the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet is set up in the Temple.

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The great tribulation is the 5th seal.

Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The great tribulation is also seen here.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The great tribulation is over before the 6th seal is opened as Jesus returns as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

the resurrection of the dead in Christ happens “afterward”at the “last trump” at the “last day” per the words of God.

The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.............a day of blowing trumpets. It is the fall harvest feast.

As for the "last day"? Which last day are you talking about? The last day when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in? Or the last day at the end of the great tribulation? Or last day at the end of the wrath of God?

 

[The Light]

Here you are contradicting yourself.

I think not.

That WAS a past "harvest" in Revelation 14:14-16. It was the newly-resurrected and crowned Son of Man who by Himself (no angels assisting at this first resurrection harvest) reaped that "dried" harvest from the earth. Christ on the same day that He was resurrected raised the Matthew 27:52-53 saints to immortal life from those Jewish graves around Jerusalem.

None of this has taken place. The 70th week of Daniel has not begun. The seals are not opened and will not be opened until the Church is in the ark.

You can't turn a blind eye to this group of "many" Jewish saints who were raised to life again. It was a resurrection harvest, and it was the FIRST one, when the resurrected "Christ the First-fruits" led all 144,000 of those First-fruits out of the grave that same day.

I do not turn a blind eye to those raised right after Jesus was raised from the dead. Christ was the first fruits of them that slept. Those that were raised at that time were the first fruits of the harvest of the Church.

The 144,000 first fruits of the 12 tribes of Israel has not occurred. It cannot occur until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

God saw the fathers of Israel as the first fruits of the first harvest as the fig tree has two harvests. Hence there will be two raptures, grain and fruit.

But Israel served Baalpeor and was found like wild grapes..........Hence they will be in the second harvest, the fall fruit harvest.

Everything in its order. Christ the first fruits and then they that are Christs at His coming. When the Lord comes for the Church Israel is still blind. Part of Israel cannot have its blindness removed until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Then we go back to the 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest.

How do you think that the error arose in those days of Hymenaeus and Philetus teaching that the resurrection was PAST already? (2 Timothy 2:17-18). Those two false teachers either knew about or had personally encountered some of those Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints. The mistaken error in their teaching was in presuming that the Matthew 27:52-53 saints being resurrected was the only resurrection "harvest" that would ever take place. They were wrong, of course, because there were going to be two more group resurrection events after that one.

Those few that are raised are the first fruits of the Church. Jesus was the first fruits of the dead in Christ.

That is the common delusion. Revelation does not show you this. This deluded viewpoint ignores Christ's own words of promise in Matthew 16:27-28 that He would return in the glory of HIs Father with the holy angels, giving rewards to everyone according to their works, and that this would happen while some of those He was then speaking to were still alive. People turn themselves into a pretzel trying to twist these words counter to their natural meaning. But almost every book of the NT also confirms this soon-coming return of Christ in that first-century generation. That second coming of Christ with a second resurrection "harvest" has already happened on Pentecost Day in AD 70, just as Daniel 12:11-13 predicted.

There's zero chance these conclusions are correct. No harvest has taken place. Only the first fruits of the 1st harvest has taken place.

 

[rwb]

Here you are contradicting yourself. That WAS a past "harvest" in Revelation 14:14-16. It was the newly-resurrected and crowned Son of Man who by Himself (no angels assisting at this first resurrection harvest) reaped that "dried" harvest from the earth. Christ on the same day that He was resurrected raised the Matthew 27:52-53 saints to immortal life from those Jewish graves around Jerusalem. You can't turn a blind eye to this group of "many" Jewish saints who were raised to life again. It was a resurrection harvest, and it was the FIRST one, when the resurrected "Christ the First-fruits" led all 144,000 of those First-fruits out of the grave that same day.

If these saints of Old have been resurrected back to life on earth in immortal bodies, how is that reconciled with what John has written in Jo 5 where he writes ALL of the dead shall be resurrected from the graves unto the resurrection of damnation, or resurrection of life?

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

You would also need to reconcile this partial resurrection in immortal bodies with what is written in Hebrews that tells us the Old Covenant faithful, even though of faith had not yet received the promise, because none shall be made perfect without all of us (believers)?

Hebrews 11:39-40 (KJV) And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

OK. You can pretend that the earth is not reaped

I didn’t say that did I?

You have to ignore what is written to prove your doctrine. And yet in Rev 14 we see the righteous are gathered first.

What I said is written, what You said above is NOT written in Rev. 14 that is your spin.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

No sir. This is the harvest of the seed of the woman the twelve tribes across the earth. Why do you think that there are 144,000 first fruits?

They are the first fruits of the fall fruit harvest.

Rev 14
Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

Why do you think that those that come out of great tribulation are singing the song of Moses........they are Jews.

Revelation 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.


Absolutely not. The time of trouble, the great tribulation begins when the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet is set up in the Temple.

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The great tribulation is the 5th seal.

Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The great tribulation is also seen here.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The great tribulation is over before the 6th seal is opened as Jesus returns as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.


The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.............a day of blowing trumpets. It is the fall harvest feast.

As for the "last day"? Which last day are you talking about? The last day when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in? Or the last day at the end of the great tribulation? Or last day at the end of the wrath of God?