What makes a doctrine false?

[Zachariah]

Let's explore that some more, if you don't mind.
We may be skating on thin ice here. PM me if it's too risky.

Fascinating.
I challenge the idea that the pre-incarnate Word was Jesus as we know Him.
The Word BECAME flesh. (and dwelt among us) I think the Word (Logos = logic) was the reason, the meaning for all this,
Same with the FATHER. The Son begat the Father, before the Father begat the Son. The Word (Logos) required a Son.
The Son required a Father. All this was established at the beginning. IMHO

God loves a story. He wrote one that will end well. Not the train wreck the church is selling us.

Yes. Life comes through the Son and manifests as the Word. Or a human. God spoke and it was Creation.

 

[strepho]

Duertonmomy chapter 13. God warns us to stay clear of false preachers. Teaching contrary to Gods word. Today its traditions of men. Many denominations teach tradition of men. Colossians chapter 2:8. Warns us of men who would spoil us through philosophy or vain deceit or traditions. Get the picture. If preachers say a apple caused sin in garden of eden. ITS A LIE. Eve was beguiled by the serpent who is satan. She had sexual relations with satan. Then Adam knew his wife, read Corinthians chapter 11 for documentation. Eve had twins. Two different fathers. Easy to understand. Is it sound doctrine or false doctrine.

 

[Zachariah]

Duertonmomy chapter 13. God warns us to stay clear of false preachers. Teaching contrary to Gods word. Today its traditions of men. Many denominations teach tradition of men. Colossians chapter 2:8. Warns us of men who would spoil us through philosophy or vain deceit or traditions. Get the picture. If preachers say a apple caused sin in garden of eden. ITS A LIE. Eve was beguiled by the serpent who is satan. She had sexual relations with satan. Then Adam knew his wife, read Corinthians chapter 11 for documentation. Eve had twins. Two different fathers. Easy to understand. Is it sound doctrine or false doctrine.

When man eats the apple of "knowlage of good and evil" it is a reference to man dictating himself what is right or wrong. Doctrines being a prime example. We cannot make "rights" and we cannot make "wrongs". They are already pre defined by the Creator.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Who does God rescue?
Who does God reconcile?
Who does God sanctify?
To what is expectation limited?

Homework for you.

 

[Zachariah]

Homework for you.

Who does God rescue?
Who does God reconcile?
Who does God sanctify?
To what is expectation limited?

Anyone willing.
Anyone willing.
Anyone willing.
The Will of the Father.

 

[charity]

That's interesting.
Any examples come to mind?

Hello @St. SteVen,

You already have several trains of thought being expressed by other members participating in your thread, you really do not need another. Maybe another time. :)

Thank you for responding.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our risen and glorified,
Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[charity]

'I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you
that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
With all lowliness and meekness,
with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is one body, and one Spirit,
even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, Who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
But unto every one of us is given grace
according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Wherefore He saith, When He ascended up on high,
He led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
(Now that He ascended, what is it but that He also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that He might fill all things.)
And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets;
and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry,
for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children,
tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine,
by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into Him in all things,
which is the head, even Christ:
From Whom the whole body fitly joined together
and compacted by that which every joint supplieth,
according to the effectual working in the measure of every part,
maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.'
(Ephesians 4:1-16)

Praise God!

 

[St. SteVen]

Duertonmomy chapter 13. God warns us to stay clear of false preachers. Teaching contrary to Gods word. Today its traditions of men. Many denominations teach tradition of men. Colossians chapter 2:8. Warns us of men who would spoil us through philosophy or vain deceit or traditions. Get the picture. If preachers say a apple caused sin in garden of eden. ITS A LIE. Eve was beguiled by the serpent who is satan. She had sexual relations with satan. Then Adam knew his wife, read Corinthians chapter 11 for documentation. Eve had twins. Two different fathers. Easy to understand. Is it sound doctrine or false doctrine.

Thanks for your reply. This is a great example of what this topic is about.

You have written some very controversial things, and some not so controversial things.
That is, from the mainstream POV. (point of view)

Interestingly, you have identified some things that you view as false doctrines. ("ITS A LIE.", as you wrote)
And obviously, others might read your post and make the same declaration about your claims. So, who is right?

"Is it sound doctrine or false doctrine.", you ask.
This is exactly this binary (black and white) view that I am attempting to address with this topic.
Is there another way? (yes) Build bridges, not walls.

As Christians we have a tendency to want things spelled out for us. To have a matter settled.
We don't like loose ends, or unexplained mysteries, in regards to our faith anyway.
An unsettled matter is most unsettling, for most Christians.

 

[St. SteVen]

We cannot make "rights" and we cannot make "wrongs". They are already pre defined by the Creator.

Reminded me of this scripture below. ("... pre defined by the Creator.")
Good works for us to do, placed along our life path. "... which God prepared in advance for us to do."
Individualized for each of us, and coordinated with the other individuals we will encounter along the way.

Ephesians 2:10 NIV
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[St. SteVen]

Homework for you.

Say it's not so!
I "stumped" the Stumpmaster? - LOL

stumped

adjective​

1. Perplexed, at a loss.

 

[St. SteVen]

... But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into Him in all things, ...

Question: Do we speak the truth in love when we declare someone else's doctrine false?

 

[Episkopos]

Question: Do we speak the truth in love when we declare someone else's doctrine false?

This is an important question and consideration.

On a forum like this, we discus things that for most people has only to do with theories, beliefs and religious leanings. We can speak out our "truth" ..or what we think is truth...in a way that doesn't engage ourselves fully as humans.

In real life I tend to not challenge people...even though on the forum I will do so.

Being led by the Spirit means we wait for God's timing and motivation. If a person believes a lie....I tend to wait..I hold back.

There was a certain brother who joined our fellowship who had read a bad theology type of book and subsequently changed his beliefs...not in a good way. Because of this other fellowships (churches) had written him off. He was here for over a year before I confronted him on his doctrine. The timing was such that he immediately turned away from his prior indoctrination. He saw through it in that moment. Its in "that moment" when God can speak through all the shallow beliefs to get to a deeper place of recognition of what is true. I say this concerning most beliefs...easy come easy go. :)

Sound doctrine brings life and a deeper connection to God so that the person who receives the doctrine in good soil cannot be moved.

 

[St. SteVen]

Thanks for detailing out the four realms for us. I wanted to discuss these two that caught my interest.

Hell is the realm often related to evil and destruction. It is the ego that has been consumed by fire and wants the same suffering for everyone else. Although there is such thing as righteous anger and this is what it means when John the Baptist stated that jesus will babtise in both wind and fire. Those who are not willing to accept the Truth grow bitter and resentful and are thrown and baptised in the lake of fire, using the Pharasee for example. The words and symboligy used for Hell are as follows: fire, brimstone, wretch, anger, evil, lake of fire, Satan, Devil, Kill steal and destroy, egyptian Pharaoh and many others. It is critical that we do not relate Hell to the darkness or underworld, for fire produces light. Fire is not its own source of light however because it must burn life in order to create it. This is how we get Lucifer - The bringer of light.

As a Christian Universalist I anticipate an age of judgment/evaluation, correction, and restoration.
Somewhat like the barnacle removal on a ship's hull. An outer layer of a lifetime of build-up.

Mark 9:49
Everyone will be salted with fire.

Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

Death is the realm after life on earth. We must traverse the valley of the shadow of death if we want to see God. We must go through the darkness in order to see the light. A problem never resolved itself from going around it, we must go through. In baptism we die to our old life to recieve our new. We go into the water which symbolises death and cleansing, and we rise out of it into the wind and spirit. This is also a ritual symbolising alchemical transmutation and resserection.

This is a very interesting view of the realm of death. A valley that must be crossed.
The valley of the shadow of death, as the Psalmist wrote. But not alone?
"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil:
for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me." - Psalm 23:4 KJV

My mind is flooded with all sorts of imagery and connections due to your description.
I have a theory that everyone will be surprised at where they end up in the afterlife.
Obviously, few saw this coming! - LOL

Jesus informs us about a great chasm of separation in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus.
Which I relate to the scripture below.

John 5:24 NET (New English Translation)
“I tell you the solemn truth,[a] the one who hears[b] my message[c]
and believes the one who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned,[d]
but has crossed over from death to life.

 

[Zachariah]

Thanks for detailing out the four realms for us. I wanted to discuss these two that caught my interest.

As a Christian Universalist I anticipate an age of judgment/evaluation, correction, and restoration.
Somewhat like the barnacle removal on a ships hull. An outer layer of a lifetime of build-up.

Mark 9:49
Everyone will be salted with fire.

Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.


This is a very interesting view of the realm of death. A valley that must be crossed.
The valley of the shadow of death, as the Psalmist wrote. But not alone?
"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil:
for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me." - Psalm 23:4 KJV

My mind is flooded with all sorts of imagery and connections due to your description.
I have a theory that everyone will be surprised at where they end up in the afterlife.
Obviously, few saw this coming! - LOL

Jesus informs us about a great chasm of separation in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus.
Which I relate to the scripture below.

John 5:24 NET (New English Translation)
“I tell you the solemn truth,[a] the one who hears[b] my message[c]
and believes the one who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned,[d]
but has crossed over from death to life.

Everything has a cycle. Everything comes to pass. Death comes before life. Dont wait for Heaven, you will miss it.

 

[Behold]

I'm guessing that would be #4, or #5? (from OP)

Or, possibly #3 ???

The OP's #3?

"because it does not align with your Church's Doctrine".

= absolutely.

I'll tell you something St S... The day you are sitting there and realize..."everything i believe, = my Church taught me to Think, and what if they are a Cult". "What if my Pastor is a heretic"...???

See, you won't know you are in a Cult, if you are in one, as deception keeps you from knowing. In other words, if you knew you were deceived, you'd stop that.........

Most dont know.
Most dont CARE.

How to know?

You have to get the very basic fundamental of the Christian Faith down pat....= so well understood that is like air., breathing..., and then you can use this High Power Electron Spiritual Microscope to discover (DISCERN) bad theology, cults, the devil's ministers, horrible "new" bibles......all of this and more will be revealed to you through the lens of Truth.


And what is that Knowledge that reveals the TRUTH ?????
What is the Spiritual KEY?

A.) Its the Cross of Christ.

See, When a believer understands what Jesus meant when He told us just before Dying...>"It is FINISHED". Then you'll stop trying to do it for yourself.

When a believer, or an unbeliever, SEES, what the "IT" is......in "IT is Finished", that at that moment, they have gained the discernment to get out of their cult and to see what isn't really CHRISTianity, that is everywhere, pretending to be, ... and isnt.

 

[Zachariah]

I would just like to state that the modern day belief in heaven as an afterlife only recently started in the 1960's or it mite have been the 1860's? Either way, I don't believe it to be authentic. Heaven is happening right now in the hearts of the living. So start making your placements in everyone you see through sacrifice and empathetic deeds. Contribute to the eternal ripple affect of love so that after you die you may remain in all to come.

 

[St. SteVen]

This is an important question and consideration.

On a forum like this, we discus things that for most people has only to do with theories, beliefs and religious leanings. We can speak out our "truth" ..or what we think is truth...in a way that doesn't engage ourselves fully as humans.

In real life I tend to not challenge people...even though on the forum I will do so.

Thanks for weighing in on this.

I think the "tone" of our responses has a lot to do with it.
Too many forum posters are blasting each other instead of trying to gain an understanding.
Differences in opinion are characterized as lies and worse.

I visited the Eschatology area on the forum recently. Wow, what a war zone!

Being led by the Spirit means we wait for God's timing and motivation. If a person believes a lie....I tend to wait..I hold back.

There was a certain brother who joined our fellowship who had read a bad theology type of book and subsequently changed his beliefs...not in a good way. Because of this other fellowships (churches) had written him off. He was here for over a year before I confronted him on his doctrine. The timing was such that he immediately turned away from his prior indoctrination. He saw through it in that moment. Its in "that moment" when God can speak through all the shallow beliefs to get to a deeper place of recognition of what is true. I say this concerning most beliefs...easy come easy go. :)

Sound doctrine brings life and a deeper connection to God so that the person who receives the doctrine in good soil cannot be moved.

Good testimony, thanks!

 

[St. SteVen]

I'll tell you something St S... The day you are sitting there and realize..."everything i believe, = my Church taught me to Think, and what if they are a Cult". "What if my Pastor is a heretic"...???

I appreciate the fact that you are trying to help me. Have you met @Charlie24 ?
He's a great guy too.

 

[Behold]

I appreciate the fact that you are trying to help me. Have you met @Charlie24 ?
He's a great guy too.

Happy to help.

and Yes, ive talked to C24

 

[St. SteVen]

I would just like to state that the modern day belief in heaven as an afterlife only recently started in the 1960's or it mite have been the 1860's? Either way, I don't believe it to be authentic. Heaven is happening right now in the hearts of the living. So start making your placements in everyone you see through sacrifice and empathetic deeds. Contribute to the eternal ripple affect of love so that after you die you may remain in all to come.

That's pretty significant. Could you find a solid citation for that?
("... the modern day belief in heaven as an afterlife only recently started in the 1960's or it mite have been the 1860's? ...")