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Dan Clarkston

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Just because God may allow certain bad tribulations to come upon you doesnt mean He sent them!

And, because God is not mocked... we all reap what we sow (Gal 6:7,8) God is NOT the one allowing these things... we are. (see James 1:14)


It sounded to me when God was talking to satan and said, have you considered my servant Job? ...that God was bragging on Job!

Exactly... because the Lord knew Job's hart was with the Lord and he would never turn away from the Lord.

As mentioned earlier, the Lord was not "allowing" satan to come at Job the way he did.... Job was living in FEAR that his children would curse God and die causing Job to do the same sacrifice continually because he was not walking in faith concerning his children and instead was in FEAR

Jesus said the fearful will have their place in the lake that burns with fire (Revelation 21:8) which is how we know being in fear is sinful behavior.... Job tells us "For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me" (Job 3:25)

So... Job lit the match that caused his troubles by providing an opening to the devil.

God is the One that put the hedge of protection around Job, and Job's actions is what caused that hedge to be broken which allowed satan entry in to Job's life
 
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quietthinker

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What is YOUR "thorn in the flesh"?​

Those who spruik and claim to be 'prophets' yet are not.
 
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Behold

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It sounded to me when God was talking to satan and said, have you considered my servant Job? ...that God was bragging on Job! Is that possible?

Sure.

Notice this verse..

""The LORD your God in your midst, The Mighty One, will save; He will rejoice over you with gladness, He will quiet you with His love, He will rejoice over you with singing.”""
 
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Behold

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I’m typically a hateful, spiteful, self serving person. For whatever reason Gods grace is still enough.

'"""Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, (God's) Grace did much more abound""".

God's Grace is The Cross of Christ.

= The blood and death of Jesus is full payment for the sin of the world, one believer at a time..... so, what can deal with the sin of the entire world, has no issue with covering all yours, Reader.

In Fact... "Jesus is the ONE TIME... ETERNAL... sacrifice for Sin"
 
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Runningman

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'"""Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, (God's) Grace did much more abound""".

God's Grace is The Cross of Christ.

= The blood and death of Jesus is full payment for the sin of the world, one believer at a time..... so, what can deal with the sin of the entire world, has no issue with covering all yours, Reader.

In Fact... "Jesus is the ONE TIME... ETERNAL... sacrifice for Sin"
Yet even Jesus had God's grace because he needed it like all people do.

Luke 2
40And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
 
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amigo de christo

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Considering Job, we are told tribulation "worketh patience" and Paul says,

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we "through patience" and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Wherein we learn of the patience of Job

James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Satan asked the LORD to touch his flesh (the LORD did not) but Job was given into Satan's hand to touch his flesh (with limitations) seeing Satan believed Job would curse God in touching his flesh.

And that particular one come with a temptation in Job (given in his flesh) by Satan to provoke Job to curse God by it. Job's own wife is also Job's own flesh also. Notice his own wife is speaking the same thing as Satan trying to provoke her husband to curse God in the same. Unlike Adam who hearkened to his wife's voice in the garden (who was listening to Serpent) Job rebukes his own wife's words encouraging him to curse God and die.

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

And it says Job did not sin with his lips in what he said.

From the beginning, the LORD said to Satan that Job was a perfect and upright man that feared God and escheweth evil

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

It's by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

The LORD also adds in Job 2:3 that Satan is moving him against him to destroy him without any cause

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him "without cause".

Job also said,

Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds "without cause".

Which appears more like a firey trial using Satan in it, for example the Lord says to Simon,

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

This shows Satan seeking permission to sift Simon also, as he needed permission to touch Job. And here we see Jesus praying for Simon's faith that it fail not. Peter confirming the souls of the brethren concerning the firey trial that had come to them in respect to their own faith as well.

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ

Paul at least shows us how a messenger of Satan can be used for good.

2 Cr 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Paul also delivered Hymenaeus and Alexander unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme in 1 Ti 1:20

Blaspheme is not a good thing, and yet being turned over to Satan to learn not to do that does not appear to
be a bad thing in this case either.
verily verily i say unto thee whosoever loveth his wife , son , daughter , etc more than me is not worthy of me .
The first adam failed and hearkened to the voice of HIS wife rather than to HEED the voice of GOD which had said THOU shalt not .
 

amigo de christo

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Jesus is God's Grace offered for us all.
OFFERED . but many reject .
and what do you suppose cometh upon the man who rejects JESUS as the CHRIST .
If one said lake of fire they had answered RIGHT .
FOr how much sorer a punishment awaits those who trod CHRIST under foot .
HOW did GOD choose to save the world .
HE sent the SON so that all who do BELEIVE in HIM, would not perish but have Everlasting life .
and what did paul remind the corinthian church as well .
For it PLEASED GOD to by what , by what by the preaching to save them that , BELIEVE . yeah it says BELEIVE .
THAT WAS GODS plan . so please understand why i do warn that interfaith is of anti christ
cause it says No religions truth is better than the others . THUS IN EFFECT It is calling GOD A LIAR .
So , there it is .
 
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Marvelloustime

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OFFERED . but many reject .
and what do you suppose cometh upon the man who rejects JESUS as the CHRIST .
If one said lake of fire they had answered RIGHT .
FOr how much sorer a punishment awaits those who trod CHRIST under foot .
HOW did GOD choose to save the world .
HE sent the SON so that all who do BELEIVE in HIM, would not perish but have Everlasting life .
and what did paul remind the corinthian church as well .
For it PLEASED GOD to by what , by what by the preaching to save them that , BELIEVE . yeah it says BELEIVE .
THAT WAS GODS plan . so please understand why i do warn that interfaith is of anti christ
cause it says No religions truth is better than the others . THUS IN EFFECT It is calling GOD A LIAR .
So , there it is .
@amigo de christo
save-image.png
 
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Runningman

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Jesus is God's Grace offered for us all.
Yet Jesus even has a God like we all do.

John 20
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
 
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Dan Clarkston

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Yet Jesus even has a God like we all do.

John 20
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

And... at the same time Jesus is God

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
 
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Runningman

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And... at the same time Jesus is God

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Yet even Jesus needed a savior...

Hebrews 5
7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
 

Verily

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And we know the Father did not need to save Jesus from the cross itself

John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

Jesus just prayed unto him who was the one "able" to save him from death.

"O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt" Mat 26:39

Mat 26:32 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying,
"O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done"

It even says,

Luke 22:43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Heb 5:7-8 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered

That last line I am not convinced of what that means in respects to Jesus obedience, unless it has something to do with things similar to this (and not doing that).

Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

Mat 26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?


Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Then the back end of it here

Isaiah 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Acts 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

Acts 13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm (Psalm 16:10), Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

1Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

This part here, as far as I can see seems to be the Father speaking to the Son,

Isaiah 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Seems to go with Acts 13:34 (in the above). Am I catching that correctly?

In the the days of his flesh Jesus cries out to the one who is able to save him from death (The Father did not) Jesus was obedient unto death (on a cross) in his days of his flesh on earth, but from death after the fact.

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. (Which day speaks of his being raised from the dead, or firstborn of the dead as it relates to his priesthood, Hebrews 5:5)

I'm probably way off topic again, but sometimes things just trial off a little.
 

Dan Clarkston

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And we know the Father did not need to save Jesus from the cross itself

Er... why would He save Jesus from the Cross???

The whole purpose of Jesus taking on flesh was for the purpose of going to the Cross

If the Father would have saved Jesus from the Cross... then there would be NO salvation for mankind at all.

The "death" spoken of here was being separated from the Father which Jesus actually experienced on the Cross.

Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

By saying this, we know Jesus was forsaken by the Father for a time while Jesus was on the Cross... this is what the Father later saved Jesus from - see Ephesians 1:20-23
 
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Verily

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Er... why would He save Jesus from the Cross???

The whole purpose of Jesus taking on flesh was for the purpose of going to the Cross

That's why I said,
"And we know the Father DID NOT need to save Jesus from the cross following that up what I said with Jesus own words, who said

John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and WHAT SHALL I SAY? Father, SAVE ME FROM THIS HOUR: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

Even though it is written (as Runningman posted)

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of HIS FLESH, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was ABLE TO save him from death, and was heard in that HE FEARED

He cried unto him that was ABLE to save him from death (and Who did not save him from the cross) and it says that he was heard in that HE FEARED (but that didn't change the outcome) as it was God's will.

Heb 2:14-15 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, HE ALSO HIMSELF LIKEWISE TOOK PART OF THE SAME; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through FEAR OF DEATH were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels FOR THE SUFFERING OF DEATH, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God SHOULD TASTE DEATH for every man.

Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation PERFECT THROUGH SUFFERINGS.

Isaiah 55:4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.

Heb 5:9 And BEING MADE PERFECT, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

The only thing I remain unclear about is Hebrews 5:8

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, YET learned he obedience by the things which he suffered

So it does say Jesus learned obedience by the things he suffered though, and that's one of those things in scripture that I cannot wrap my head around, well, as to what exactly this is speaking of.
 

Runningman

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So you think Jesus was a sinner?

That's laughable! Only demons claim Jesus was a sinner because they are liars!
Jesus was not a sinner of course, he never sinned, but even Jesus was tempted in every way a normal person was yet God cannot be tempted.

Hebrews 4
15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

James 1
13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
 

Runningman

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That's why I said,
"And we know the Father DID NOT need to save Jesus from the cross following that up what I said with Jesus own words, who said

John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and WHAT SHALL I SAY? Father, SAVE ME FROM THIS HOUR: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

Even though it is written (as Runningman posted)

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of HIS FLESH, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was ABLE TO save him from death, and was heard in that HE FEARED

He cried unto him that was ABLE to save him from death (and Who did not save him from the cross) and it says that he was heard in that HE FEARED (but that didn't change the outcome) as it was God's will.

Heb 2:14-15 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, HE ALSO HIMSELF LIKEWISE TOOK PART OF THE SAME; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through FEAR OF DEATH were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels FOR THE SUFFERING OF DEATH, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God SHOULD TASTE DEATH for every man.

Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation PERFECT THROUGH SUFFERINGS.

Isaiah 55:4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.

Heb 5:9 And BEING MADE PERFECT, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

The only thing I remain unclear about is Hebrews 5:8

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, YET learned he obedience by the things which he suffered

So it does say Jesus learned obedience by the things he suffered though, and that's one of those things in scripture that I cannot wrap my head around, well, as to what exactly this is speaking of.
Yes, but Jesus needed to be saved from Hades by God.

Acts 2
24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
 

Verily

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Yes, but Jesus needed to be saved from Hades by God.

Acts 2
24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

That is what I meant by the back end of it

Then the back end of it here

Isaiah 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Acts 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

Acts 13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm (Psalm 16:10), Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
 
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