What is the one true Church?

[Jim B]

Rev 2:12
And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
Rev 2:13
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Rev 2:14
But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Rev 2:15
So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
Rev 2:16
Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Rev 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Most of us own a BIble, so what is the point of posting these verses?

 

[Jim B]

Deception.

GASLIGHTING.

Projection.

Wolf in Sheep's clothing.

Twisting the narrative

False Prophet

False Witness

Imagine writing a letter or 2 about yourself except attributing the meaning of the letter onto someone else.
And those that read it believe that you are talking about someone else when you are really talking about yourself.

That's like saying the Democrats accusing the Republicans of wanting to steal an election, even though it was themselves that truly stole it.

Now you have a choice. You can believe the Democrats or you can believe the Republicans.
Problem is you only listen to one side of the story.
So that version of the story is true to you, even though in truth it is not.

How can you tell the difference when the deception is so thick, it can almost decieve the entire world. Universal even.

Ye shall know them by their fruits.

This is directed at no one.
Just thinking out loud.
Hugs

<ignored>

 

[BreadOfLife]

Another post by an alleged Catholic oozing with hatred, malice, sarcasm. Per usual.

You are not fooling anyone.

Nahhh - I just have ZERO tolerance for idiotic, unsubstantiated lies.
By the way - so does God . . .

Rev. 2:18
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

 

[Ziggy]

Most of us own a BIble, so what is the point of posting these verses?

Because if I don't post them you will say I'm making them up.

 

[Ziggy]

<ignored>

Interesting...
Did you take offence to this post even though it wan't directed at anyone?
I wonder why that is?

 

[Jim B]

Because if I don't post them you will say I'm making them up.

That is just fantasy. Again, most of us, maybe all, own a Bible -- one or more. If you reference some verses that is all that is necessary. If you post some verses, how about at least accompanying the verses with a comment or two of your own?

 

[Ziggy]

Rev. 2:18
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Hello,
Jim B just asked me a question, I wonder if you would care to answer...

Most of us own a BIble, so what is the point of posting these verses?

I'm just curious
thank you

 

[Jim B]

Interesting...
Did you take offence to this post even though it wan't directed at anyone?
I wonder why that is?

Because this is a forum. If you post something offensive and/or meaningless you can expect to be ignored.

 

[Ziggy]

Most of us own a BIble, so what is the point of posting these verses?

We had been discussing, seats, and bread, and given names.. all kinds of things. I felt these versus summed it up.
Keep up with the program

 

[Ziggy]

Because this is a forum. If you post something offensive and/or meaningless you can expect to be ignored.

Do you find the book of Revelation offensive or meaningless?

 

[Ziggy]

Because this is a forum. If you post something offensive and/or meaningless you can expect to be ignored.

If that were the case.. there wouldn't be a forum to be ignored on LOL
Not everything is offensive or meanigless to everyone, only those who choose it to be.
And that is why we have free speech..
so far.
:)

 

[Webers_Home]

.
FAQ: At Matt 16:18, Jesus said: "I will build my church; and the gates of the
netherworld shall not prevail against it." What is the meaning of that verse?

REPLY: Basically it's saying that should one of Jesus' sheep slip through a
crack and end up in the wrong place, they will be able to stroll right on out
of there like a tourist in Paris; led to safety by the good shepherd.

● John 10:27 . . My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

We should emphasize that if the Roman Catholic Church were the "my
church" that Christ spoke of in Matt 16:18, then no Catholic— not one
would end up on the wrong side of things; but I'm pretty sure that Rome
expects to lose a number of its followers to fiery justice; which reminds me
of a line from the movie "AVATAR" spoken by Colonel Miles Quaritch, played
by Stephen Lang, that goes like this:

"It is my job to keep you alive. I will not succeed . . not with all of you."

But Jesus will succeed because his own personal standing in Heaven
depends upon it. Here' why.

● John 10:27-29 . . My sheep . . . my Father gave them to me

● John 6:39 . .This is the will of the One who sent me, that I should not lose
anything of what He gave me.

● John 4:34 . . My food is to do the will of the One who sent me.

● John 8:29 . . I always do what is pleasing to Him.

Were Jesus to lose even one head of the sheep that his Father gave him,
just one, then it would be wrong of Jesus to say he "always" pleases his
Father. He'd have to tone it down and say "almost always" viz: most of the
time, but not all the time.

When people say that it's possible for Jesus to lose some of the sheep that
his Father gave him; they are actually casting a vote of no-confidence in the
reliability of his faithfulness to God's will.

FAQ: How can you be sure Matt 16:18 isn't talking about Jesus' church as an
institution rather than individuals.

REPLY: Because sheep are individuals, i.e. John Que and Jane Doe pew
warmer.
_

 

[Taken]

Nahhh - I just have ZERO tolerance for idiotic, unsubstantiated lies.
By the way - so does God . . .

Rev. 2:18
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Says he who bows down to statues and prays to dead people.

 

[360watt]

Scripture and scripture alone defines what the true church is.

So in Matthew 16:18, we see Jesus saying 'on this rock I will build my church '

He says it while talking with Peter.

He gives a different word for Peter's name.. meaning small rock or piece of rock.

Jesus name as the Rock.. is the bigger, foundational rock.

Petra vs Petros.

So Jesus won't be building the church on Peter.. but Himself. Jesus starts it.

This is church like you would talk about 'the school' ... not a building .. but a local and visible assembly of saved, baptized by immersion in water, believers.

It's singular 'the church' standing for plural 'churches'.

Like 'the dog' is a loyal friend. That's not one universal dog. But representing them all.

So next we go to Matthew 18:20. And that is of the local church also. It's about how Christians should address sin in the local church. (I say local.. but that's kind of nonsense, because it's always local. We don't say 'here is my local wife ' if we are married.)

Then we go to Acts.. with the church being added to. This is the church at Jerusalem. Not every believer. Paul persecuted thus church.. none other.

I won't go thru every reference.. but the other key one is 1 Corinthians 12:13.

'We were all baptized into one body by one spirit, whether Greeks or slaves.. .'

Things to note: 1.. the 'we' is Paul and the body at Corinth.

2.. later Paul calls the church at Corinth 'you are the body of Christ '

So it's of the local and visible church again. Not every believer.

All the language of the body of Christ here is of locality... togetherness, unity etc. That isn't analogous for every believer which is scattered, disjointed and ununified.

What entity is every believer?

The Family of God.

This is what we join at salvation.

It is not the body of Christ. They aren't the same thing.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Per Usual You are in ERROR.

Yes,Jesus taught men to FORGIVE men of their Trespasses Against them.
Yes, Jesus taught men to ASK men to FORGIVE Trespasses they committed Against another.
No, A little child in the multitude was not what you called (Jesus’ inner circle).

Matt 6:
[12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Matt 18:
[2] And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them...

Matt 18:
[18] Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Bound and Loosed, is about Men on Earth, Forgiving Men on Earth;
of Trespasses.

* Forgive a Man of his Trespasses ON Earth and that Trespass shall be Forgiven IN Heaven.

* Forgive NOT a Man of his Trespass ON Earth and that Trespass shall NOT be Forgiven IN Heaven.

You should study and learn, Christ Jesus’ “inner circle”, is not LIMITED to His Apostles, teachers, preachers, bishops, deacons, etc. ie. “Titled” servants who fill a particular roll.

EVERYONE who is a member of Christ’s Church; Serve the Lord God when THEY, Speak the Word of God for others to hear.

EVERYONE who Speaks the Word of God, is held to the SAME “standard” as ANY “titled” Servant, claiming it is the Word of God, SHOULD in fact BE the Word of God.

EVERYONE who IS a member of Christ Jesus’ Church, Who ARE Speaking ON BEHALF of Gods Word; ARE a Reflection of Christ Jesus;
SAME as ANY “titled” Servant of God....( IS SUPPOSED TO Be ).

YOU, have decided “ONLY” titled Servants (what you call LEADERS) have an EXCLUSIVE ROLE....of “FORGIVING” men.

WRONG! (LOL)

Men forgive men ALL THE TIME....
(what do you think...
“ I apologize, I’m sorry, Excuse me, Pardon me, Forgive me” means?

Duped again.

WRONG.

As followers of Christ - we are ALL commanded to forgive the trespasses of others agsinst US.
However - NOWHERE did Jesus teach that we ALL have the power to HOLD their sins bound. That was a poer that he OCLY gave to the leaders of His Church whom He ordained.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send YOU."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU retain are retained."

WHAT did the Father send the Son to do?
To bring about the FORGIVENESS of sin.

The fact that Jesus breathed on the Apostles when entrusted them with this ministry is highly significant because he doesn’t do this anywhere else in the New Testament.
In fact, there are only TWO times in ALL of Scripture where God breathes on man:
- The first is when he breathed life into Adam.
- The second is here in John’s Gospel when he is giving them the power to forgive or retain sins.

Jesus NEVER gave this power to the crowds.

In 2 Cor. 2:10, he states, “Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for you in the presence of Christ.”

In the Greek, the word “presence” in this phrase is “Prosopone”, which means Person. In the PERSON of Christ is a more correct translation. Paul was indicating that they, the ordained presbyteroi were forgiving sins in the PERSON of Christ, which is translated into Latin as In Persona Christi.

And we see this belief and practice throughout the Early Church:

Ignatius of Antioch
For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of penance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ (Letter to the Philadelphians 3 [A.D. 107]).

Irenaeus
[The Gnostic disciples of Marcus] have deluded many women. . . Their consciences have been branded as with a hot iron. Some of these women make a public confession, but others are ashamed to do this, and in silence, as if withdrawing from themselves the hope of life of God, they either apostatize entirely or hesitate between two courses (Against Heresies 1:22 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian
The Church has the power of forgiving sins. This I acknowledge and adjudge (Repentance 10:1 [A.D. 203]).

Hippolytus
(Regarding ordination of Bishops) …grant this your servant, whom you have chosen for the episcopate, [the power] to feed your holy flock and to serve without blame as your high priest, ministering night and day to propitiate unceasingly before your face and to offer to you the gifts of your holy Church, and by the Spirit of the high priesthood to have the authority to forgive sins, in accord with your command (Apostolic Tradition 3 [A.D. 215]).

Origen
[A filial method of forgiveness], albeit hard and laborious [is] the remission of sins through penance, when the sinner . . . does not shrink from declaring his sin to a priest of the Lord and from seeking medicine, after the manner of him who say, "I said, to the Lord, I will accuse myself of my iniquity" (Homilies in Leviticus 2:4 [A.D. 248]).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Says he who bows down to statues and prays to dead people.

I don't pnow down to statues.

And those in the presence of almighty God in Heaven aren't "dead".
They are MORE alive than YOU are (Heb. 12:1), my faithless friend . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Scripture and scripture alone defines what the true church is.

So in Matthew 16:18, we see Jesus saying 'on this rock I will build my church '
He says it while talking with Peter.
He gives a different word for Peter's name.. meaning small rock or piece of rock.
Jesus name as the Rock.. is the bigger, foundational rock.
Petra vs Petros.

So Jesus won't be building the church on Peter.. but Himself. Jesus starts it.

Nice try.

However, Jesus and the Apostles spoke ARAMAIC - not Greek.
What Jesus actually said to Peter was:
" ... you are Kepha and on this Kepha I will nuild my Church..."

That's why Paul refers to hinm - NOT as "Peter" in his letters, but as "Cepha".

Kepha epha neans "Rock" in Aramaic. Not "small" rock - just "Rock".
There was no "Petra vs. Petros". Peter IS the Rock Jesus is talking about in Matt. 16:18.

 

[Jim B]

We had been discussing, seats, and bread, and given names.. all kinds of things. I felt these versus summed it up.
Keep up with the program

Poor excuse.

 

[Jim B]

Do you find the book of Revelation offensive or meaningless?

Don't be stupid!

 

[Jim B]

If that were the case.. there wouldn't be a forum to be ignored on LOL
Not everything is offensive or meanigless to everyone, only those who choose it to be.
And that is why we have free speech..
so far.
:)

Read my previous post, immediately above.