What is the one true Church?

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Marymog

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Which church—that is, which denomination of Christianity—is the “true church”? Which church is the one that God loves and cherishes and died for? Which church is His bride?

The answer is that no visible church or denomination is the true church, because the bride of Christ is not an institution, but is instead a spiritual entity made up of those who have by grace through faith been brought into a close, intimate relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Those people, no matter which building, denomination, or country they happen to be in, constitute the true church.
Hey Pearl,

How do I find the invisible True Church if The Church is invisible? That seems like a cruel joke from God......tell us that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth....and then hide that church from us! :contemplate:

If The Church were, as your theory suggest, "invisible" then why does Scripture talk about elders of The Church and how we are to obey them since they are watching out for our soul (Hebrews 13:17)? What about Acts 20:28? Titus 1:5? Matthew 18:17?

Now I could go on and on quoting passages from Scripture that destroys your theory......but I know neither I nor Scripture will convince you that you are wrong, so I digress.

Bible study Mary
 

David in NJ

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Give all the testimony you want about your journey David. None of that matters in regard to your lie.

I provided you a link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church that shows you what The Church teaches in regard to the matter. Based on your testimony of being raised a Catholic you should know what that book says. CLEARLY you don't know what it says because you have lied about what it says.

It's pretty simple David. You lied about what The Church teaches. I am not debating what your men have taught you about faith+works......I am asking you to just stop lying and apologize for that lie.

Repent!
The fact that i do know Truth from error means i have the Mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit.

All who do not follow the words of God spoken thru His Son, the OT Prophets and the Apostles are not part of the One True Church.
God's Church cannot be seen or built by men's hands.
God's Church is Christ and is built upon the Rock of Salvation with the OT Prophets and Apostles built upon that ROCK.

The completed One True Church is made from "Living Stones" = these Living Stones have been Born-Again by the Word.

Why do you reject the words of Christ and the Apostles, most especially the Apostle Peter?
 
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Illuminator

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Is a 5 year old "Heartfully MATURE" enough to accept Jesus?
How about a 10 year old?
How about a 15 year old or a 30 year old with the mental capacity of a 7 year old?
What about all the adults who accepted Jesus when they were "heartfully mature" and then years later rejected Jesus? Were they mature the first time they accepted Jesus? Or years later when they rejected Him? Wouldn't they have been MORE mature years later Taken?
Can you now see how ridiculous your theory is?

Jesus said: “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God.
Taken says: Keep the children from Jesus.

Scripture says: Entire households were baptized.
Taken says: Entire households, minus any child who isn't heartfully mature, were baptized.

The earliest debate in Christian history was how SOON after birth should children be baptized; before 8 days or after 8 days. The earliest Christian records we have from 1,900 years ago say that children were baptized.
Taken has accepted the latest 500 year old teaching of protestant men.

Scripture and your own Christian history show that you and your ilk are wrong.

Telling the truth with real with logic, Scripture and Christian history..............Mary
Some Protestants reject infant baptism because they reject the doctrine of Original Sin, plainly taught in Romans 5. Luther and Calvin, the twin pillars of Protestantism, baptized infants. It was not a reformist issue. Adult only baptism was invented well after the Prot. revolt, proving it is a man made tradition, but still a valid baptism.
 
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Taken

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I have no problem with disagreements. But your childish rants is not "disagreements", it's closed minded arrogant persecution based on prejudice and ignorance. Back to the iggy bin you go!
Identifying WHAT the disagreement IS...IS how mature adults have a conversation.....When all you’ve got is an immature whaa, whaa, you simply reveal your inability to participate in a mature adult SPIRITUAL conversation...

Whaa, whaa, “closed MINDED” “arrogant persecution” “ignorance” is how a Snarky Brat responds....

You still don’t get it. Spiritual understanding is not about Understanding with the MIND. Did you NOT LEARN in your YEARS of Catholic indoctrination...
The Carnal MIND is AGAINST GOD, and NOT Equipped to Comprehend Spiritual Understanding?...thus your attempt at disagreement discussions are
Are simply immature MINDFUL episodes play-school tactics.

Pleased to NOTICE there is a SPLIT within the Catholic House...Not ALL Catholics are like you or BOL or Marymog, whose Mindful Understanding is How to Project your Faith in Catholicism is with immature play-school name-calling, screeching, dodging tactics.

Seriously inept.
 
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Taken

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The fact that i do know Truth from error means i have the Mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit.

All who do not follow the words of God spoken thru His Son, the OT Prophets and the Apostles are not part of the One True Church.
God's Church cannot be seen or built by men's hands.
God's Church is Christ and is built upon the Rock of Salvation with the OT Prophets and Apostles built upon that ROCK.

The completed One True Church is made from "Living Stones" = these Living Stones have been Born-Again by the Word.

Why do you reject the words of Christ and the Apostles, most especially the Apostle Peter?

LOL....what a LOAD....Marymog says...your Journey in Life has nothing to Do with your life...

Guess it could be a movie called....ALL ABOUT EVE....LOL
 
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Taken

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There is nothing beautiful about your sick view of Catholicism. That's why you ran from this thread you started:
I've been following you for a long time. You're a bitter old ex-Catholic turned anti-Catholic because you haven't come to terms with the spiritual abuse you endured as a "Catholic" child. You never fell in love with Jesus in the Eucharist because if you had, you would still be a Catholic. Merely going through the motions half a century ago does NOT make you an expert so you have no right to criticize the Church based on antiquated inertia.

And you are .... not an ex-Protestant, but just anti-Protestant ... ?
Tit for Tat....swinging door.
 
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amigo de christo

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Ummm.....not sure what this has to do with the matter and hand but thank you
it has EVERYTHING to do with the matter at hand . IF even cornelious who did much good
and prayed even to the one true GOD , STILL had to hear the gospel and believe in order to be saved .
What on earth makes one think the dragons vatican and the dragons lost sold out protestant realm
IS RIGHT when they make such claims as Muslims worship the same GOD we do
or that even if atheists who simply dropped their kids off to church , YET STILL refused to believe in Christ
are somehow STILL saved . Christendom has become a mad house .
And yet when those who love the people and are sent by the Spirit of GOD to warn the people
WELL the people still do as did their fathers . REJECT THEM and cling to their false leaders .
ALL i ever desired was good for the people . Yet the more i love the less i be loved . Be that as it may
FEEL NO SORROW FOR ME . I HAVE CHRIST and thus i have all no matter what men and this world may do to me .
ITS THEIR GOOD i long for .
 
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amigo de christo

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LOL....what a LOAD....Marymog says...your Journey in Life has nothing to Do with your life...

Guess it could be a movie called....ALL ABOUT EVE....LOL
Taken i do not know your age . But this i can tell you . I am fifty .
And i now see the delusion of the end age has grown ripe .
What is this delusion i speak of .
THE STRONG DELUSION that now unites THE DECIEVED to be as one . TO COME together
to simply find COMMON ground with all . Rather odd , I THOUGHT THE ONLY COMMON GROUND
lambs had was FOUND IN CHRIST ALONE and not the world nor the things of the world .
YA BETTER WATCHOUT , its been sold under the guise or RICKY warren
under this bridge builders , this finding common ground , this false unity .
ITS GATHERING ALL and leads them into greater darkness , TILL they see no need to BELEIVE IN CHRIST
but rather just a need to have this lovey and gather with all and correct none , but point only to humanity
only to this religoin of the beast which already has its false ten commandments . WE BESS watch out and be on gaurd .
it has come in under the guise of tolerance , love , unity , judge not , alpha course . a whole new way to evangelize
was brought into the churches long ago and it DIDNT WORK . HAD they actually preached THE WORDS OF GOD
and of HIS TRUTH , the peoples would have repented . THEY DID NOT . Rather they grew worse and worse
till now many sins and many paths have been found ACCEPTABLE in their eyes as they holler GOD IS LOVE .
SATAN has many now . BIBLE TIME . i repeat , satan and his men have many now , BIBLE TIME .
 

BreadOfLife

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The Original Tree NEVER is the RCC and NEVER will be.

But go ahead and lets see what you come up with in scripture.
Historically-speaking – there is NO Christian church prior to the Catholic Church.

NO Calvinists
NO Baptists
NO Episcopalians
NO Presbyterians
NO Lutherans
NO Methodists
NO Pentecostals
NO Protestants
of ANY kind..

The Church was being called, “The Catholic Church” from the FIRST century, as attested to by the writings of FIRST century Bishop, Ignatius of Antioch:

"Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

Biblically-speaking - Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας


The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"ekklesia Kata-holos"
= CATHOLIC CHURCH.


YOUR turn . . .
 

amigo de christo

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To david and all . IF you all ever once consider joining the RCC i will rebuke you all harshley .
DO the same for me if you ever saw me headed that way . I will not make my bed with the harlot
nor her sisters .
 
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amigo de christo

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The fact that i do know Truth from error means i have the Mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit.

All who do not follow the words of God spoken thru His Son, the OT Prophets and the Apostles are not part of the One True Church.
God's Church cannot be seen or built by men's hands.
God's Church is Christ and is built upon the Rock of Salvation with the OT Prophets and Apostles built upon that ROCK.

The completed One True Church is made from "Living Stones" = these Living Stones have been Born-Again by the Word.

Why do you reject the words of Christ and the Apostles, most especially the Apostle Peter?
Never let us make our bed in the harlots chambers . TO THE END IT SHALL BE CHRIST ALONE for the true lambs .
 

Pierac

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Part 1

Let’s Clear Up Some Misconceptions

In the Old Testament, you will not find one word about anybody having to assemble in any town, city, or village of the land of Israel on the Sabbath day. Not one word. The Sabbath day was kept, but not for assembly purposes, or to have a building like a synagogue like that back in the time of Moses. The only thing you will find is that they did have to go to Jerusalem during the three holy day seasons, and they had to go to Jerusalem if they wanted to offer an animal sacrifice, for a blessing, or sin.

There is another misconception. If a person sinned in the Old Testament time, people have had the wrong impression that you just go out in your backyard, build an altar and offer an animal sacrifice. If you were going to be righteous and holy, a lot of animals would be killed. However, that was completely illegal.

In Order To Uunderstand This We Need To Understand the Sacrificial System

You could only offer a sacrifice wherever the sanctuary was, or the Holy Temple at Jerusalem, once that was established. They did not offer many animal sacrifices. In fact, some people went for years without offering a single sacrifice. They were indeed sacrificing, but the priests vicariously were sacrificing for them in the Temple. On the great day of expiation, the Day of Atonement, where are two goats — one slain and one let go. The one let go was a goat offered by and for all the people of Israel. Technically it was the High Priest that did it, but it applied to everyone. A Jew could say he sacrificed an animal on the Day of Atonement, even though he did not touch it. The same thing goes for most all the other sacrifices.

Once they were done at the end of the year, a pious Israelite praying to God daily could legally say before God, thank you God for accepting my sacrifices, though he did not offer one of them. It is important to realize that somebody else did it for them. The whole teaching of the sacrifices is that somebody else has to do it for you. Someone else did it for us. Is that not true? Jesus Christ did. It all makes sense.

There were not many animal sacrifices done by individuals, but they could if they wanted to and some did. However, the national sacrifices at the Temple took care of all these things. There are many teachings on how the priests were to work in the Temple, and sometimes the Levites who helped them. But that only had to do with the Temple in Jerusalem. There is not one word in the Old Testament where God legislated that you have to build a synagogue in a city or a village.

There is one big difference between a synagogue service and a Temple service. The Temple services were conducted according to biblical revelation only by priests, with the help of Levites. That is all. Once in a while, some representatives of the 12 tribes would come up to help, but it was just superficial. Everything done in the Temple, was done by the priesthood. A priesthood was rather aristocratic, father to son, father to son, father to son, and on down the line. In fact it was very aristocratic. There were not that many priests around.

Synagogues Were Run by Laymen (People like you)

The synagogue system was entirely different. It is evident in history, McClintock & Strong’s Cyclopedia that the synagogue services and system was established on the principle of the layman participating in the worship of God. Indeed, the synagogue system was almost entirely a layman’s work. Priests would come along, but they were superficial to the synagogue service, in the sense that it was not essential for them to be there. It is quite true that when there was the reading from the Law and from the Prophets, they gave precedence to a priest to read it if he was in the synagogue because of his holy station. If the priest was not there, they would give it to a Levite next. If a Levite was not there, they would give it to any ordinary Israelite to read. Anybody could read the lesson. After a prayer, the lesson was read, a talk on the lesson was given, and then the proceedings were opened up for fellowship in the whole synagogue. They had different types of synagogues, but it was entirely a layman’s affair. Priests could come into it but only as they agreed with layman. In fact, synagogues were nothing more than community centers. They were primarily religious community centers among the Jews.

A layman could talk in services, if the time period would come for it, as every Israelite was looked on as important as the next person. They had what they call a “ruler of the synagogue” and he was elected by the congregation, by the people of the community. Other roles also existed. For example they have a man in almost every synagogue called the “maethurgeman.” The maethurgeman is the interpreter. He was in almost all synagogue services, and certainly in those of the “diaspora” away from Jerusalem. This man would read the lesson. If he read it in Hebrew, then he himself would interpret to the people. The way they would do it is that one man would get up and read a sentence or two. Another man, the maethurgeman, in the same tone of voice without any voice inflections would try to repeat the lesson in the local dialect, whether that was Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, or Latin. These men were regular people who were part of the synagogue services, the reader and the interpreter or the “speaker” and “tongues” as their titles really meant.

“Any one of the congregation who was capable of interpreting was asked to do so.” (“Synagogue” in McClintock and Strong, Cyclopedia). Anybody could interpret, but they had to have the knowledge to speak, thus anyone 13 years of age and above could do it. One time one person would do it; one time another would do it. The synagogue was a community effort entirely. There was no hierarchy in the early synagogue system. They did have a ruler of the synagogue, and others around to keep control and order, but that was all that they had. However, those offices could change from time to time, and there is not a word in the Old Testament that a ruler of the synagogue has any official capacity as far as God’s revelation is concerned. Obviously because the synagogue was part of the legal system, respect would have been accorded to him. But there is not a word about a hierarchy for synagogues because there is not a word about synagogue or how to make them or anything of that nature in the Old Testament.
 

Pierac

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Part 2
Paul preached to them about Jesus and His resurrection. His speech to them was short; it may have been 5 minutes (Perhaps it was longer if Luke edited out some portions).

“And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.” Acts 13:42–43

In 1Corinthians chapter 14, it is crystal clear and interesting how people fail to understand that Paul was speaking in the context of a synagogue service in operation. Some of the offices that were in the synagogue like the maethurgeman are mentioned, but not like in the charismatic churches today. It is a great deal different today than it was back then; maybe some revision needs to be made. Why not at least go by the standard that is here in the Scripture. But no one does.

1 Corinthians 14:23 says, “If therefore the whole church [ekklesia, the body of the people] be come together into one place,” to the place of assembly. (The word “synagogue” simply means a place of assembly. You could say “come to synagogue” but we would not use the term). If they “… come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that you are mad?” Tongues simply mean languages. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13:1, that there are languages of men, and angels. The most common languages of men were Latin, Hebrew and Aramaic. Paul says here to the Greeks coming together if everyone speaks in different languages, the unbelievers would say you are mad because of the confusion going on. There was no order. Why do you not speak all in one language so that what you say can be profitable to people? Some people today say this means ecstatic worship coming in under the inspiration of the Spirit. I am inspired by the Spirit quite often, but I do not find myself speaking so that I do not know what I am talking about. Paul goes on to say that “the spirits of the prophets” were “subject to the prophets” (1 Corinthians 14:32). Many people today say they do not know what they said, how long they said it, or why they said it, but they said something. They probably did.

How The Ekklesia Should Work:

“But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believes not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. How is it then, brethren? when you come together, every one of you has a psalm, has a doctrine, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.” 1 Corinthians 14:24–26

Paul is talking to the whole ekklesia here: “therefore the whole church [ekklesia] be come together” (verse 23). He is talking about layman, everyone coming together. He does not distinguish laymen from ministers, does he? In most churches that I have been in contact with, only the ministers have a right to bring a doctrine, to bring a song, to speak a language or to have a revelation. Paul did not teach that. He said when the whole ekklesia comes together, let it be done decently. By that he means let it “be done unto edifying” and in order.

Verse 27, If any man speak in an unknown tongue …” (It could be Greek or a reading of Hebrew). “… let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.” That is exactly what we have in every synagogue. You had a maethurgeman there who would listen to one language being said, and he would repeat back in the language of the people so they could understand it, and hear the message all for the edifying of the ekklesia. There is no use speaking to Greeks in Hebrew when they do not understand Hebrew. So when you read from the Old Testament, in Hebrew, you better have someone who can interpret.

They had an interpreter because the one who gave the reading from the Bible could not be the same one to interpret. There had to be another man over listening so that he could, in the same tone of voice, repeat what the other man said. If he did not say it exactly, this man would be right there to watch and to correct him. And the other man would watch the first. It was checks and balances because they did not have the Scripture like today when you can check whether or not I am quoting scripture correctly. He says, let them be “by course.”

Verse 28, “But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church [ekklesia]; and let him speak to himself, and to God.” A man can read Hebrew or give any message in Hebrew, but do it to himself, because the others cannot understand. If they cannot understand, then it is not helping, it is not “edifying.”

Verse 29, “Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other [others, plural in Greek] judge.” The practice was to let all types of people speak. Paul says two or three prophets. By prophets he does not mean people, who foretell events. A prophet was one who “forth-told” that is tells forth things, like a preacher. This is one of the classical meanings of “prophet.”

“If any thing be revealed to another that sits by, let the first hold his peace. For you may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.” Corinthians 14:30–31

Everyone could “prophesy,” one by one, in the congregation, but not all at once. The whole problem in Judaism was for everyone to speak at once. If you have ever been to a synagogue service after the reading of the Law and the Prophets (where everyone is very, very careful), it gets pretty festive at times.

“And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches [ekklesias] of the saints.” Corinthians 14:32–33

All the ekklesias of the saints are to be in the fashion of order. That is how our Lord spoke in the synagogues, and that is how Paul and the others spoke. That is how the Gospel was shared. When anybody can speak and express their opinion as in 1 Corinthians 14, you have checks and balances. If you have a hierarchical system, you will be taught what one man believes. If he is wrong, then everyone will be wrong. However, if everyone can speak in the church service, with order and balance, then one person may say one thing another person does not agree with the other person then has a chance to respond for everyone to hear it. A checks and balances exists with this type of system. The Gospel thrived, though they had error and heresy, but with this method, there was far greater protection than you can possibly imagine under a hierarchical system.
 

BreadOfLife

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I have a BIBLE. I have A TEACHER. I have SOLICITED the Lord FOR HIS Offerings and Received the SAME according to HIS Order and WAY....

I have NEVER solicited you as a teacher, nor put my trust in you, nor follow your man-made order and way.

Set your arrogance aside and try to pay attention to the FACTS...

I do not disagree with Scripture.
I DO DISAGREE with YOUR INTERPRETATION of Scripture.
I DO DISAGREE with YOUR self appointed pseudo authority dictating what APPLIES to other People....you are NOT QUALIFIED to speak for me...and when you DO, it’s a bag of lies.
Interesting.

Sooooo, if everybody like YOU believes that they are taught directly by God – without benefit of His Church, who He left in CHARGE of the teaching (Matt. 28:19-20)WHY are there so many splintered denominations that ALL teach different doctrines based on the personal interpretations of their HUMAN founders?

Can you explain?
 

Pierac

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Part 3...

So What Kind Of Ekklesia System Should We Have?

The Bible shows how the ekklesia system should operate in 1 Corinthians 14. These verses reveal principles for congregational order. Granted, one person may need to govern over the affairs of the ekklesia . Paul said, speaking to Timothy, to lay hands on no man suddenly (1 Timothy 5:22). He is speaking about the requirement of being an elder. The people of Corinth were part of a synagogue system in which everyone played a part although the authority could change from time to time. Even a young man could be in authority. In the Book of Ephesians, Paul speaks about God giving apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and others (Ephesians 4:11). In a ekklesia service each role is needed, except the apostle, who is not need today. We have one apostle and that apostle is Jesus Christ (Hebrews 3:11). The apostles of the New Testament were selected personally by Christ, given a commission which was delineated very well. In the New Testament ekklesia, they did have apostles. What about the others: prophets, evangelists and pastors? Some people have considered these roles to be ranks. If certain people have ranks, the synagogue system is destroyed entirely. But worse yet, you have destroyed the entire New Testament pattern of ekklesia entirely.

The apostle Paul was commissioned to tell the Corinthians to keep order in the ekklesia. He was an apostle commissioned of Jesus Christ to perform that job at that time. But the whole congregation was involved not just Paul. They were all wanting to speak, and they all could speak. Paul gave them permission to speak, but speak in order when no one else was speaking. It was completely congregational. If you have a congregational order of service, everyone has a rank. Anybody who speaks is top guy while he is speaking. What about the prophets, evangelists, and pastors and the others at Ephesians 4, who gave help and governance also in 1 Corinthians chapter 12? If you look at these verses very carefully and apply the proper type of ekklesia system that we have been looking at as revealed in the Scripture, it is quite apparent that all of these titles are functions and not ranks, with the exception of apostle. “Apostles” did have absolute commissions that you can find in the Scriptures. We do not need any more apostles today except one, Jesus Christ. It is impossible for a person to be an apostle today because the three major factors that qualify a person as an apostle no longer exist.

We have people who are evangelist. A evangelist is one who just sends forth the “evangel,” the Gospel. He goes around and speaks from town to town. That is the modern definition for evangelist, and possibly the same meaning in the Greek. If I go from place to place and preach the Gospel, call me an evangelist. Is that a rank? No, it is a function. We have people who are pastors. A pastor means a shepherd over an ekklesia or an area, but he shepherds the flock. The word pastor means a shepherd. A pastor does not travel from place to place but he is in one area with a congregation. Paul told Timothy, to appoint an elder, who meets certain qualifications. If a man is qualified, hands are laid on him by the congregation. The members of congregation know him and call him a pastor. That is not a rank. That is a function of service to the community, not a role to “lead” meetings.

The only way that a congregational or synagogue structure for the ekklesia can exist is to have a non-hierarchical system. Indeed that is exactly what we have on earth today. We need no more priesthood because the physical Temple has been destroyed. We do not need any men ruling over us because there is only “one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). There is a hierarchy, but the hierarchy is in heaven. There is only one person that stands between you and God the Father in that hierarchical system and that is Jesus Christ. No man has a right to tell what you should do except Him. To let one man speak and rule over you, creates trouble, because it means that all the weaknesses that man has, the group will have. Some may say, you also have all of the strengths, and that is true. But there is greater strength with all participating than having one man leading. Note too, he may well be wrong.

The congregational system is the method. It is the synagogue system. That is how the New Testament teachings were spread. Christ and Paul could not have been able to spread the Gospel unless the laymen had a chance to speak. Thanks be to God they did. I hope all will have a chance to speak. If they do, perhaps the body will see that we are all an important part.
Compare Our Modern Christian Service To The Synagogue Services of Jesus and His Followers.

We know our service today by the liturgy. Yes, despite the slightest variations, the order worship is essentially the same in all Protestant churches across the world today. If you peel away the superficial alterations that make each church service distinct you will find the same prescribed liturgy: the greeting, prayer or scripture reading, the announcements, offering, followed by the sermon and benediction. As you enter the church building, you are greeted by an usher or an appointed greeter-who should be smiling! You're then handed a bulletin or announcement page. Some churches offer coffee and doughnuts as the congregation is being seated. Once the service begins there is prayer and/or scripture reading.

The song service is next. The congregation is led to sing by a professional song leader, choir, or worship team. If you're part of a charismatic style church it will typically last 30 to 45 minutes. Otherwise, it will be shorter. The announcements are usually given by the pastor or some other church leader. The offering or tithe is usually accompanied by special music by the choir, worship team, or a soloist. The sermon is typically a 30 to 45 minute monolog delivered by the pastor. There is often one or more of the following post-sermon activities: an after- the-sermon-pastorial prayer, an altar call, more singing led by the choir or worship team, the Lord's supper, and/or prayer for the sick or afflicted. Closing announcements are usually given by the pastor or a "lay person." The benediction is the blessing or song that ends the service. With some minor rearrangements, this is the unbroken liturgy that millions of Church goers across the globe observe religiously week after week. For the last 500 years, no one has seemed to question it. Look again at the order of worship.

It’s a threefold structure: 1) singing, 2) the sermon, and 3) closing prayer or song. This order of worship is viewed as sacrosanct in the eyes of most modern Christians. But why? It is simply due to the titanic power of the traditions of men. We inherited this liturgy through a constant yet evolving tradition. And that tradition has set the Sunday morning order of worship in concrete for five centuries… never to be moved! The questions we must ask is why? Why do we follow this ritual week after week? The ritual is not promoted in Scripture, but actually rejected by Scripture.
 

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Part 4 ...
Take A Walk Through History

In order to understand where you are, you must first understand from where you came. How did the modern liturgy, with which we sit through week after week, come to be? One simply needs a small walk in history, and it becomes pretty clear the liturgy started with the development of the Catholic Church. The medieval Mass is a blending of Roman, Gallic, and Frankish elements (see Edmund Bishop's essay, The Genius of the Roman Rite and Monsignor L Duchesne’s Christian Worship: Its Origin and Evolution, New York: Society for promoting Christian knowledge, 1912, pp 86-227). The ceremonial aspects of the Mass, such as incense, candles, and arrangements of the church building were all borrowed from the ceremonial court of the Roman emperors. The story of the origin of the Mass is far beyond the scope of this paper, but suffice to say that the Mass was essentially a blending together of the resurgence of Gentile interest in synagogue worship and pagan influence that dates back to the fourth century. (Frank Senn, Christian Liturgy: Catholic and Evangelical, Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 19I7,p. 54; The Early Liturgy, pp. 123, 130-144).

In 1520, Martin Luther launched a violent campaign against the Roman Catholic Mass. The high point of the Catholic Mass has always been the Eucharist. The word " Eucharist" is derived from the Greek word eucharisteo which means "to give thanks." It appears in 1 Corinthians 11:24. Post-apostolic Christians refer to the Lord's supper as the "Eucharist." Luther made preaching, rather than the Eucharist, as the center of the gathering. While Luther had a very high regard of the Eucharist, he stripped the Mass of all sacrificial language, only keeping the Eucharist itself. He was a strong believer in both Word and Sacrament, so his German Mass assume both holy Communion and preaching. (Protestant worship: Traditions in Transition, pp. 36-37). Luther’s belief in the centrality of preaching as the mark of the worship service has remained until this day. Yet, it has no Biblical precedent what so ever. As one historian put it, "the pulpit is the throne of the Protestant pastor." For this reason,l ordained Protestant ministers are routinely called "preachers." (Protestant worship: Traditions in Transition, p. 20.)

Luther merely tried to save what he thought were the "Christian" elements of the old Catholic order. He primarily reinterpreted many of the Mass’ rituals, but he kept the ceremony, believing it was proper. Luther pointed to the ceremonial rites in the courts of Kings and believed this should be applied to the worship of God (Christian Worship and Its Cultural Setting, p.15). Luther retained the act that marked the high moment of the Catholic Mass: when the priest elevated the bread and the cup and consecrated them. He merely reinterpreted the meaning of this act. The practice of consecrating the bread and cup by elevating them began in the 13th century. It is a practice built mostly on superstition. Yet it is still observe by many pastors today. In like manner, Luther did drastic surgery to the Eucharistic prayer, only retaining the "words of institution." The words of institution are the words of 1 Corinthians 11:23-25. To this date, Protestant pastors religiously recite this text before administering Communion.

In sum, the major enduring changes that Luther made to the Catholic Mass were as follows: 1) He transformed the Mass into the language of the people, 2) he gave the sermon a central place in the gathering, 3) he introduced congregational singing, 4) he abolished the idea that the Mass was a sacrifice of Christ, and 5) he allowed the congregation to partake of the bread and cup (rather than just the priest as was the Catholic practice). Other than these differences, Luther kept the same order of worship as found in the Catholic Mass.

As with all church services throughout history, nothing stays the same, as a modernity entered into the culture, the Swiss reformer Ulrich Zwingli, made a few of his own reforms that helped shape today's order of worship. He replaced the alter table with something called "the communion table" from which bread and wine were administered. He also had the bread and cup carried to the people in their pews using wooden trays and cups. (Christian Liturgy, p. 362; Protestant worship: Traditions in Transition, p.62.)

Another important reformer was John Calvin. Like Luther, Calvin stressed the centrality of preaching during the worship service. Given his theological mindset, the preaching in Calvin’s Geneva church was intensely theological and academic. It was also highly individualistic, a mark that never left Protestantism. Calvin's Geneva church was held up as a model for all reformed churches. Thus its order of worship spread far and wide. This accounts for the cerebral character of most Protestant churches today, particularly the reformed Presbyterian brand. Probably the most damaging feature of Calvin's liturgy is that he led most of the service from his pulpit. Christianity has never recovered from this. Today, it is the pastor that is the MC of the Sunday morning church service. Another feature that Calvin contributed to the order of worship is the somber attitude that the congregation is taught to adopt when they enter the building. That atmosphere was to create a profound sense of self-abasement before a sovereign and austere God.

The Puritans, Calvinists from England embraced a rigorous Biblicism and sought to adhere tightly to the New Testament or worship. Consequently, when pastors bellow about "doing everything by the Word of God," they are echoing Puritan sentiments. However, the church in effort to restore the New Testament church meeting turned into a dramatic failure.

The forsaking of clerical vestments, idols, ornaments, and clergymen writing their own sermons (as opposed to reading homilies) were positive contributions that the Puritans gave us. (Protestant worship: Traditions in Transition, pp. 119, 125. Christian Liturgy. P. 512). In some Puritan churches, the laity was allowed to speak at the end of the service. Immediately after the sermon, the pastor would sit down and answer the congregation's questions. Congregants would also even be allowed to give testimonies. (Protestant worship: Traditions in Transition p.126). But with the advent of Frontier-Revivalism, this practice faded away, never again to be adopted by mainstream Christianity. All in all, the church’s contribution in shaping Protestant liturgy did little in releasing God's people to function under Christ’s Headship.
 

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Part 5 ...Let Us Look At The Enduring Changes The Frontier-Revivalist Made

The 18th and 19th century brought a new challenge to American Protestantism. It was the pressure to conform to the ever popular American Frontier-Revivalism services. (Protestant worship: Traditions in Transition p. 91).

First, the Frontier-Revivalist changed the goal of preaching. They preached exclusively with one aim, to convert lost souls. In the mind of a frontier revivalist, there was nothing beyond salvation involved in God's plan. American revivalism gave birth to the "missionary society" at the end of the 18th-century. This included the Baptist Missionary Society (1792), the London Missionary Society (1799), the General Methodist Missionary Society (1796), and the Church Missionary Society (1799). Kim Tan, (Lost Heritage: The Heroic Story of Radical Christianity (Godalming: Highland Books, 1996) deceased, p. 195). George Whitfield was the first moderate evangelist to preach outdoor crowds in the open-air. He is the man that shifted the emphasis in preaching from God's plan for the Church to his plans for the individual. The popular notion that "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life" was first introduced by Whitfield. (Christian History, volume xii, No.2 issue 38, p. 44).

Second, Frontier-Revivalist music spoke to the soul and sought to elicit an emotional response to the salvation message. All the great revivalist had musicians on their team for this purpose. Worship began to be viewed as primarily individualistic, subjective, and emotional. Taking their cue from the meetings of the revivalist, Methodist services became a means to an end. The goal shifted from worshiping God and instructing believers to the making of individual converts. Sermons moved from discussing "real life" matters to proclaiming the Gospel to the lost. The theology of revivalism showed no understanding of God eternal purpose or his plan for the church. Many Protestant churches (not just Pentecostal and Charismatic) begin their services with rousing songs to prepare people for the emotionally-targeted sermon. But few people know that this tradition began with the frontier revivalist little more than a century ago.

The Methodist and the Frontier Revivalist gave birth to the "altar call." The practice of inviting people who want prayer to stand to their feet and walk to the front to receive prayer was given to us by a Methodist evangelist named Lorenzo Dow. (The Effective Invitation, pp.94-95). The Rev. James Taylor was among the first to call inquirers to the front of his church in 1785 in Tennessee. The first recorded use of the altar in connection with a public invitation occurred in 1799 at a Methodist Camp meeting at Red River, Kentucky. (Protestant worship: Traditions in Transition, p.174).

In 1807 England, the Methodist created the "mourner’s bench." Now anxious sinners had a place to mourn for their sins when they were invited to walk down the Saw dust trail. This method reached the United States a few years later. Charles Finney named it the "anxious bench." Finney raised the "altar call" to a fine art. His method was to ask those who wish to be saved to stand up and come forward. Finney made this method so popular that "after 1835, it was an indispensable fixture of modern revivals." (Revival and Revivalism pp.226, 241-243). Finney is credited with inventing the practice of praying for persons by name, mobilizing groups of workers to visit homes, and displacing the routine services of the church with special services every night a week. Over time, the "anxious bench" in the outdoor camp meeting was replaced by the "altar" in the church building. The "Saw dust trail" was replaced by the church aisle. And so was born the famous "altar-call." (Dictionary of Pentecostals and Charismatic Movements, p. 904). see Gordon L. Hall’s (The Sawdust Trail: The story of American Evangelism [Philadelphia: Macrae Smith Co., 1964]).

Perhaps the most dominating element that Finney gave to modern Christianity was pragmatism. Pragmatism, is the belief that if something works, it should be embraced. Finney was an innovator employing his so-called "new measures," he argued that there existed no normative form of worship in the New Testament. Whatever was successful in leading sinners to Christ was approved. (Christian Liturgy, p.564). Pragmatism is harmful because it teaches "the end justifies the means." If the end is considered "holy," any "means" are acceptable.

In all these ways, American Frontier-Revivalism turned church into a preaching station. It reduced the experience of the ekklesia into an evangelistic mission. It normalized Finney’s revivalist methods and created pulpit personalities as the dominating attraction for church. It also made the church and individualistic affair rather than a corporate one. Properly conceived, the goal of preaching is not the salvation of souls. It is the birth of the church. As one scholar put it, "conversion can only be the means; the goal is the extension of the visible church" (Dictionary of Mission: Theology, History, Perspective, Maryknoll: Orbis Books, 1998, p. 431). Scholar D.J. Tidball has echoed the same thought saying, "Paul's primary interest was not the conversion of individuals but in the formation of Christian communities" (Dictionary of Paul and His Letters, Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1993, p. 885).

The Frontier Revivalist had no concept of the ekklesia. With Albert Blake Dick’s invention of stencil duplicating in 1884, the order of worship began to be printed in bulletins. Thus was born the famous "Sunday morning bulletin." As we move closer to the 19th-century, we have a staggering influence of one single person, Dwight L. Moody. Moody's gospel, like Whitefields, had but one center- salvation for the sinner. All other ends were secondary. It is said that Moody traveled more than 1 million miles and preached to more than 100 million people. This was in a day without airplanes, microphones, television, or the internet. His theology was encapsulated in the three R’s: Ruined by sin, redeemed by Christ, and regenerated by the Spirit. Moody saw nothing beyond this (Christian History, Volume IX , No.1, Issue 25; Who's Who in Christian History, Tyndale, 1992, pp. 483-485; Evangelism: A Concise History, pp. 151-152). Moody was the first to ask those who wanted to be safe to stand up in their seats and to be lead in a "Sinners Prayer." So staggering was his influence that by 1874, the church was "not a great corporate body," but "only a company of individuals." This emphasis was picked up by every revivalist who followed him. It eventually entered into the marrow and bones of evangelical Christianity. It is also important to note that Moody was heavily influenced by the Plymouth Brethren teaching on the end times. This was the teaching that Christ may return at any second before the great tribulation. This teaching is called "Pre-tribulation dispensationalism". This belief gave rise to the idea that Christians must save as many souls as quickly as possible before the world ends.

Beginning around 1906, the Pentecostal movement gave us a more emotional expression of the contribution of singing. This included lifting of one's hands, dancing in pews, clapping, speaking in tongues, and the use of tambourine's. Essentially, a Pentecostal is merely allowed more room to move in his pew. Pentecostal worship is a highly subjective and individualistic in the mind of the Pentecostal, worshiping God is not a corporate a fair, but a solo experience. With the pervasive influence of the charismatic movement, this individualistic mindset of worship has furthered infiltrated the vast majority of Protestant traditions.

When you study the liturgical history of the Lutherans (16th-century), Reformed (16th-century), Puritans (16th-century), Methodist (18th-century), Frontier-Revivalist (18th-19th century) and Pentecostals (20th Century). One uncovers one inescapable point. For the last 500 years, the Protestant order of worship has undergone minimal change. Frank Senn’s Christian Liturgy compare scores of various liturgies down through the ages. Anyone who compares them will readily spot their common features. Senn compares five modern written liturgies side by side: Roman Catholic Missal, Lutheran Book of Worship, Book of Common Prayer, Methodist, and Book of Common Worship. The similarities are shocking " (Christian liturgy, pp. 646-647).

The reformers produced a half-baked reform of the Catholic liturgy. Their main contribution was in changing the central focus. Unfortunately, neither Catholicism nor Protestantism were successful in making Jesus Christ the center of their gatherings. The book replaced the Eucharist, and the pastor replaced the priest. But there's still a man directing God's people, rendering them as silent spectators.
 

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Part 6
It is painfully clear that the Protestant order of worship did not originate with the Lord Jesus, the apostles, or New Testament scriptures. It has no Biblical basis for several reasons. First, the Protestant order of worship represses mutual participation and the growth of the body of Christ by silencing its members. There is absolutely no room for you to give a word of exhortation, share an insight, start or introduce a song, or spontaneously lead a prayer. You are forced to be a muted, staid pewholder. Even though open sharing in a church meeting is completely scriptural (1Co 14:26 What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.) The New Testament teaches that all Christians are to use their gifts as functioning priest to edify one another when they gather together (1Co 12:7; Eph 4:7; Heb 10:24-25). If you acted as scriptures teaches above in your church today, you would be breaking the liturgy. If you dare try something so outrageous, you would be considered “out of order” and asked to behave yourself or leave!

Second, the Protestant worship strangles the headship of Jesus Christ, In the words of Arthur Wallis, “ liturgies, whether ancient or modern, written or unwritten, are human device to keep the religious wheels turning by doing what is customary, rather than exercising faith in the immediate presence and operation of the spirit.” The entire service is directed by a man. Where is the freedom of our Lord Jesus to speak through His body at will? Where in the liturgy may God give a brother or a sister a word to share with the whole congregation? The order of worship allows for no such thing. Jesus Christ has no freedom to express Himself through his body at His direction. He is held captive by our liturgy! Jesus too is rendered a passive spectator! The Protestant liturgy distorts the body of Christ and turns it into one huge tongue (the pastor) and many little ears (the congregation)! This does violence to Paul's vision of the body of Christ where every member functions in the church meeting for the common good.

Third, for many Christians, the Sunday morning service is shamefully boring. It is without variety or spontaneity. It is highly predictable, highly prefunctory, and highly mechanical. There is little in the way of freshness or innovation. It's the same dog and pony show every week. Some churches have made attempts to fix this problem. They have recognized the sterile nature of the modern church service. In response, they have incorporated a vast array of media and theatrical modernization into the liturgy. It is a sad attempt to market worship to the unchurched. As a result, they have garnered the largest market share of any Protestant tradition. Despite the added entertainment, the movement has been unable to break free from the unmovable, unimaginative, uncreative, inflexible, mindlessly ritualistic, pro-formula Protestant liturgy. The body of Christ is still held captive by the pastor, the threefold "hymns sandwich" remains intact, and the congregants continue to be muted spectators but just a tad more entertained in their spectating.

Fourth, the Protestant liturgy that you quietly sit through every Sunday, year after year, actually hinders spiritual transformation. It does so because: 1) it encourages passivity, 2) it limits functioning, and 3) it implies that putting in one hour per week is the key to the victorious Christian life. However, the New Testament never links sitting through a ossified ritual that we mislabel "church" as having anything to do with spiritual transformation. We grow by functioning, not by passively watching and listening. Face it, the Protestant order of worship is unscriptural, impractical, and unspiritual. It has no analog in the New Testament. Rather, it finds its roots in the culture of fallen man. The purpose of the first century church meeting was not for evangelism, sermonizing, worship, or fellowship. It was for mutual edification to manifest in Christ corporately. (Rethinking the Wineskin, chapter 1. Frank Viola).

What is the Sunday Morning Sermon?

In short, the modern Christian mindset equates the sermon with Sunday morning worship. But it does not end there. Most Christians are addicted to the sermon. They come to church with an empty bucket expecting the preacher to fill it up with a "feel-good" message. Remove the sermon and you have eliminated the most important source of spiritual nourishment for most believers (so it is thought) yet a stunning reality is that the sermon has no root in Scripture. Rather, it was borrowed from the pagan culture, nursed and adopted into the Christian faith. Granted, the Scriptures do record men and yes even women preaching. However, there is a world of difference between the spirit inspired preaching described in the Bible and the modern sermon. This difference is virtually always overlooked because we have been unwittingly conditioned to read our modern day practices back into the Scripture. So we mistakenly embraced today's pulpiteerism as being Biblical. Let's contrast the two.

The modern Christian sermon has the following features:

  • It is a regular occurrence-delivered faithfully from the pulpit at least once a week.
  • It is delivered by the same person, typically the pastor.
  • It is delivered to a passive audience; it is essentially a monologue.
  • It is a cultivated form of speech, possessing a specific structure. It typically contains an introduction, three to five points, and a conclusion.
Contrast this kind of preaching mentioned in the Bible. In the Old Testament, men of God preached and taught. But their speaking did not map like the modern sermon.

Here are the features of Old Testament preaching and teaching:

  • Active participation and interruptions by the audience were common.
  • They spoke extemporaneously and out of a present burden, rather than from a set script.
  • There is no indication that the Old Testament prophets or priests gave regular speeches to God's people.
Instead, the nature of Old Testament preaching was sporadic, fluid, and open for audience participation. Preaching in the ancient synagogue followed a similar pattern.

Now we come to the New Testament, Lord Jesus did not preach a regular sermon to the same audience. His preaching and teaching took many different forms. He delivered his message is to many different audiences. His disciples follow the same pattern, as the apostolic preaching recorded in Acts possesses the following features.

  • It was sporadic.
  • It was delivered on special occasions in order to deal with specific problems.
  • It was extemporaneous and without rhetorical structure. The spontaneous and non-rhetorical character of the apostolic message delivered in Acts is evident upon inspection. (Acts 2:14-36; 7:1-52; 17:22-34).
  • It was most often dialogical (meaning it include feedback and interruptions from the group) rather than monologue (a one-way discourse).
The Greek word often used to describe first century preaching is dialegomai. Our English word "dialogue" is derived from it. In short, apostolic ministry was more dialogue than it was monological sermonics (William Barclay, Communicating the Gospel Sterling: The Drummond Press, 1968, pp. 34-35).

So, Where Did the Christian Sermon Come From?

This raises a thorny question. If the first century Christians were not noted for their sermonizing, from whom did the post-apostolic Christians pick up the sermon? The answer is telling: The Christian sermon was borrowed straight from the pagan Greek culture. The sophists are credited for inventing rhetoric (the art of persuasive speaking). They recruited disciples and demanded payment for delivering their orations. Edwin Hatch, The Influence of Greek Ideas and Usages Upon the Christian Church (Peabody: Hendrickson, 1895), p. 109. The sophists were expert debaters. They were masters at using emotional appeals, physical appearance, and clever language to "sell" their arguments. In time, the style, form, and oratorical skill of the sophists became more prized than their accuracy. [We get our word "sophistry" and "sophistical" from the sophists. Sophistry refers to suspicious and fallacious ‘bogus’ reasoning used to persuade (Archtypes of Wisdom, p.57). The Greeks celebrated the orator’s style and form over the accuracy content of his sermon. Thus a good orator could use his sermon to sway his audience to believe what he knew to be false. To the Greek mind, winning an argument was a greater virtue than distilling truth. Unfortunately, an element of sophists has never left the Christian fold (To Preach or Not to Preach?, pp.21-22); {The Influence of Greek Ideas, p. 113). The truths they preached were abstract rather than truths that were practiced in their own lives. They were experts at imitating form rather than substance. They even identify themselves by the special clothing they wore. Yes, sometimes the Greek orator would enter his speaking form "already robed in his pulpit-gown." The sophists were the most distinguished men of their time. So much so that some lived at public expense. Others had public statues erected in their honor. (The Influence of Greek Ideas, pp. 97-98). Indeed, the Greeks were intoxicated with rhetoric. The love of speech was second nature to the Greeks. "They were a nation of talkers" (The Influence of Greek Ideas, p. 27). This was so fashionable that a "sermonette" from a professional philosopher after dinner was a regular form of entertainment… (The Influence of Greek Ideas, P.40).
 

BreadOfLife

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Sure you did....then you tried to make that my thoughts.
Nothing new, same old mode of operation, trying to MAKE your thoughts, your spoken words accountable to someone else.
No – I said YOU made Him sound like an idiot by claiming that Her was talking about natural birth when Nicodemus CLEARLY asked Him about REBIRTH.

Your moronic projection tactics may work with the people YOU hang out with – but nobody here is buying your
nonsense . . .
 

Pierac

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Part 7... the end of my study...
So, How Did the Greek Sermon Find Its Way Into The Christian Church?

It appears that around the third century a vacuum was created when mutual ministry faded from the body of Christ. At this time, the traveling worker who spoke out of a spontaneous burden left the pages of church history. To fill his absence, the clergy-caste began to emerge. Open meetings began to die out, and church gatherings became more and more liturgical. It was at this time, during the third century, the clergy-laity distinction was developing. A hierarchical structure began to take root, and there grew up the idea of the "religious specialist." In the face of these changes, the functioning Christian had trouble fitting into this evolving ecclesiastical structure, as there was no longer a place for him or her to exercise his gifts.

Thus by the fourth century, the church has become fully institutionalized and the functioning of God’s people died within this institution. The only upshot of the story is that these former pagan orators (now turned Christian) began to use their Greco-Roman oratorical skills for Christian purposes. They would sit in their official chair and "expound the sacred text of Scripture, just as the sophist would supply an exegesis of the near sacred text of Homer… " If you compare a third century pagan sermon with a sermon given by one of the early Church Fathers, you would find both the structure and the phraseology to be shockingly similar. So a new style of communication was being birth in the Christian church-- a style that emphasizes polished rhetoric, sophisticated grammar, flowery eloquence, and monologue. It was a style that was designed to entertain and show off the speaker’s oratorical skills. It was Greco-Roman rhetoric. And only those who were trained in it were allowed to address the assembly! Sound familiar? One scholar put it this way: The original proclamation of the Christian message was a two-way conversation but when the oratorical schools of the Western world laid hold of the Christian message, they made the proclamation of the gospel (Preaching) something vastly different. Oratory took the place of conversation. The greatness of the orator took the place of the astounding event of Jesus Christ. The dialogue between speaker and listener faded into a monologue. Wayne E. Oates, (Protestant Pastoral Counseling [Philadelphia: Westminster Press], 1962, p. 162). In summary the Greco-Roman sermon replaced prophesying, open sharing, and spirit inspired teaching. Edwin Hatch (The Influence of Greek Ideas and Usages Upon The Christian Church [Peabody: Hendrickson, 1895], p.108).

As early as the third century, Christians call their sermons by the name that the Greek orators called their discourses. They called them homilies. Today, one can take a seminary course called homilietics to learn how to preach. Homilietics is considered a "science applying rules of rhetoric, which go back to Greece and Rome." J. D. Douglas, (Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1991 p. 405). Neither homilies (sermons) nor homilietics (the art of sermonizing) have a Christian origin. They were taken from the Greeks. We can credit both Chrysostom and Augustine (354-430 A.D.), a former professor of rhetoric, for making pulpit oratory part and parcel of the Christian faith. (To Preach or Not to Preach?, p. 23). In Chrysostom, the Greek sermon reached its zenith. The Greek sermon style indulged in rhetorical brilliance, quoting of poems, and focused on impressing the audience. In Augustine, the Latin sermon reached its heights. The Latin sermon style was more down-to-earth than the Greek style. It focused on the "common man" and was directed to a simpler moral point. Ultimately, both Chrysostom and Augustine gave us polished Christian rhetoric and thus the "Christian" sermon. These early sermons were Biblical in content, but Greek in style. (To Preach or Not to Preach?, p. 23). Summing up the origin of the modern sermon, we can say the following: Christianity took Greco-Roman rhetoric, baptized and wrapped it in swaddling clothes. The Greek homily made its way into the Christian church around the second century, and reached its height in the pulpit orators of the fourth century – namely Chrysostom and Augustine. (A Brief History of Preaching, p. 22).

Though revered for centuries the conventional sermon has contributed to the malfunction of the church in a number of ways. First, the sermon makes the preacher the virtuoso performer of the church service. Second, the sermon stalemates spiritual growth because it is a one-way affair and prevents the church from functioning. If suffocates mutual ministry. It smothers and prevents open participation, and causes the spiritual growth of God people to suffer dearly. Scriptures teach we must function if we will grow; we do not grow by sitting like a pillar of salt as one man preaches to us week after week. Scripture teaches that one goal of New Testament preaching and teaching is for the body of believers to function. Members should open their mouth in the church meeting, but the conventional sermon hinders this very process. Thus the sermon makes "church" both distant and impersonal. By contrast, New Testament preaching and teaching equips the church so that it can function without the presence of a clergyman. Consider Paul's method of preaching to an infant church then leaving it on its own for long periods of time.

We need a restoration of the first century practice of mutual exultation and mutual ministry. The New Testament hinges spiritual transformation upon these two practices. (Hebrews 10: 25-26). Teaching is to come from all believers (1 Corinthians 14:26) as well as from those who are specially gifted to teach (Ephesians 4:11; James 3:1). Today’s pulpit sermon is not the equivalent of the preaching that is found in Scriptures. It cannot be found in Judaism of the Old Testament, the Ministry of Jesus, or the life of the primitive Church. Paul told his Greek converts that he refused to the influence by the communication patterns of his pagan contemporaries. (1 Corinthians 1: 17; 2:1-5). Christianity has absorbed its surrounding culture. When your pastor mounts his pulpit wearing his clerical costume and delivers his sacred sermon, he is playing out the role of the ancient Greek orator. This tradition, has become so entrenched in the Christian mind that most Bible believing pastors and "laymen" fail to see that they are affirming and perpetuating an unscriptural practice out of sheer tradition of men.

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God

-Paul of Tarus