All those verses are saying is what when we pray in tongues, we are praying in a language not known to us. We are praying in spirit. When he prays in understanding, he is saying he’s praying in a language he knows. The epistles mentions praying in unknown tongues and so on many times being correlated to not knowing what is happening like when someone shared a tongue, but had no interpreter.
What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
We pray from deep within our spirit...then God says we pray in the Spirit, who says praying in the spirit is only by tongues...Gods word doesn’t say that we only pray in tongues.
What about those who are Born Again and don’t speak in tongues?
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
What about those who are Born Again and don’t speak in tongues?
1 Corinthians 12
King James Version
12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
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Those are some good comments/questions.
The question would be, why specify "praying in the Spirit" if all prayer is in the Spirit?
What specifically are the writers asking us to do? See post #456.
The type of tongues referenced in the scripture you quoted is #3 in the list below.
It is not a reference to the other four uses of tongues. (you wouldn't need interpretation for the other uses)
Five Uses of Tongues
1) Personal prayer language (speaking to God) See Acts 1:5, 1 Corinthians 14:2 and Acts 19:6
2) Intercessory prayer language (prayer in the Spirit) See Romans 8:26
3) Congregational message (preferably with interpretation) 1 Corinthians 14
4) Worship language (singing in tongues) See 1 Corinthians 14:15
5) Evangelistic language (language of the hearers) Like the outpouring at Pentecost. See Acts 2
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
Short commentary.
Tongues is very one way. You're not consciously having a conversation with God. Suggesting that tongues only is the way to pray is a little bit like trying to build a friendship with someone when your only means of communication is facial expressions. That is not going to work at all.
Tongues is not the only way to pray to God....and whose to say that praying in the Spirit is by tongues?
We have based what we believe by voicing our own opinions @St. SteVen ...no more no less...no one is right, only God is right.
All beliefs are valid plus opinions...none is no more valid over another..imo.
God knows my hearts desires and I come before him in prayer over them and he answers.
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
- “Hear me when I call, O God of my righteousness! You have relieved me in my distress; have mercy on me, and hear my prayer” (Psalm 4:1).
- “Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation. Give heed to the voice of my cry, my King and my God, for to You I will pray” (Psalm 5:1-2).
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Just to be clear, I was not advocating that we cannot have Spirit-directed prayers other than tongues.
Obviously, whenever spiritual discernment is used to frame our prayers, they are Spirit-directed prayers.
What I found interesting was whether non-tongues Spirit-directed prayers could be defended biblically.
What we found was inconclusive, for either view. IMHO
My understanding of the biblical term "pray in the Spirit" is that it is a reference to tongues.
Again... the question would be, why specify "praying in the Spirit" if all prayer is in the Spirit?
What specifically are the writers asking us to do? See post #456.
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
Ok, for me prayer in the Spirit, is exactly that, we pray from within our hearts as that is where the Spirit indwells us..praying in the Spirit, imo, is not praying in tongues.
He knows my heart desires, I don’t pray my hearts desire out in tongues.
That's fine. But the question remains about the biblical aspect.
Why specify "praying in the Spirit" if all prayer is in the Spirit?
What specifically are the writers asking us to do? See post #456.
I don't think it means that non-tongues Spirit-directed prayers are being discouraged.
But there is a special purpose for "praying in the Spirit". I think this capsulizes it well.
Romans 8:26-27 NIV
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness.
We do not know what we ought to pray for,
but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit,
because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
To be honest Brother, I think one is trying to understand prayer from one’s own understanding.they make it sound complicated..
From divine heart knowledge of knowing God in my spirit...that’s how I became Born Again, having never read a Bible, therefore as I know I’m his child, I pray from the depths of my heart, spirit to Spirit, ...I don’t need to follow any Bible to pray to God, my heart desires are and have been answered..quite honestly, some need divine heart revelation imo...some of their heart knowledge is non existence...it’s just constant head knowledge..then posting reams and reams of scripture, we get to know God in our spirit...the bible just confirms this . not referring to you.
Heart/ Spirit knowledge is the key ingredient.only then can we be led through the Bible to understand the word by the power of the Holy Spirit who brings it to our understanding..even then, it’s all in his timing.
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Spirit directed speach is prophesy - I raised this some time back to refute the assertion this whatever utterance not in tongues is carnal.
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Romans 8:15
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”
Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”
Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
That’s the same way I see praying in the spirit as well that is is in tongues. Though I think to gives are always a known human language, never some kind of angelic language. I don’t think it happens anymore though.
What about preaching and teaching?
Or a word of knowledge, or a word of wisdom?
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Humour is my spiritual gift - whenever I claim that, every body laughs...
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Lurking behind the claim that only tongues is praying 'in the Spirit' is the lie that only tongue speakers are saved.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
I was baptized an infant into a religion that prays to saints and angels. It
was years later that I discovered praying to saints and angels is not a good
idea because for one thing, folks unified with Christ are urged to pray to their
creator rather than to one of His creations.
● Gal 4:6 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of His
son into your hearts calling out: Abba! Father.
● Rom 8:15 . . For you have not received a spirit of bondage again to fear;
but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba!
Father.
* Abba is neither English, nor Greek, nor Hebrew. It's an Aramaic word that
means father in an unusual way. It's a filial vocative.
For example: When my son points me out to one of his friends at the mall
and says: "That's my dad over there" then his use of dad simply indicates
that he and I are related. But when he shouts: "Hey dad! I'm over here."
then his use of dad is a filial vocative because he's addressing me personally
to get my attention-- same noun; different sense.
Anyway point being: the spirit of His son, a.k.a. the spirit of adoption, never
urges the Father's family circle to call out to creatures because it compels us
to follow His son's example. And I'd have to say, if someone is comfortable
calling out to creatures, then they have not yet been adopted into the
Father's family circle, viz; they're on the outside looking in as fatherless
urchins. It gets worse:
The spirit of His son is of course the spirit of Christ; and folks lacking it are
in a very serious spiritual condition.
● Rom 8:9 . . If anyone have not the spirit of Christ, he does not belong to
Christ.
_
I was baptized an infant into a religion that prays to saints and angels. It
was years later that I discovered praying to saints and angels is not a good
idea because for one thing, folks unified with Christ are urged to pray to their
creator rather than to one of His creations.
● Gal 4:6 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of His
son into your hearts calling out: Abba! Father.
● Rom 8:15 . . For you have not received a spirit of bondage again to fear;
but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba!
Father.
* Abba is neither English, nor Greek, nor Hebrew. It's an Aramaic word that
means father in an unusual way. It's a filial vocative.
For example: When my son points me out to one of his friends at the mall
and says: "That's my dad over there" then his use of dad simply indicates
that he and I are related. But when he shouts: "Hey dad! I'm over here."
then his use of dad is a filial vocative because he's addressing me personally
to get my attention-- same noun; different sense.
Anyway point being: the spirit of His son, a.k.a. the spirit of adoption, never
urges the Father's family circle to call out to creatures because it compels us
to follow His son's example. And I'd have to say, if someone is comfortable
calling out to creatures, then they have not yet been adopted into the
Father's family circle, viz; they're on the outside looking in as fatherless
urchins. It gets worse:
The spirit of His son is of course the spirit of Christ; and folks lacking it are
in a very serious spiritual condition.
● Rom 8:9 . . If anyone have not the spirit of Christ, he does not belong to
Christ.
_
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To be clear, I make neither of those claims.
But I do believe the biblical term "praying in the Spirit" is a reference to tongues.
The question remains about the biblical aspect.
Why specify "praying in the Spirit" if all prayer is in the Spirit?
What specifically are the writers asking us to do? See post #456.
Here are those scriptures.
- Romans 8:26
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for,
but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
- 1 Corinthians 14:14
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
- 1 Corinthians 14:15
So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding;
I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
- Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests.
With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.
- Jude 1:20
But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith
and praying in the Holy Spirit,
[
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