What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

[Ritajanice]

John 3:8 NIV
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound,
but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going.
So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[a]

This is how I became Born Of The Spirit, as the Spirit was indwelling me, the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children ..being birthed by the Spirit is supernatural and only God can do that act if he so chooses, via His Holy Spirit, he witnesses Gods truth of who God is to our spirit.

I also speak in tongues.

 

[St. SteVen]

Initial evidence.

We have been gifted supernatural faith, the Spirit has birthed our spirit into his, we have supernatural eyes and ears, the moment we are birthed..therefore have God given faith, he made himself known via his Spirit to our spirit, that is what it means to be Born Again of imperishable seed .

We know God because he chose to birth us in the Spirit.

Human faith is no faith at all, no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Agree.
How much latitude do you allow for the experience of others in this matter?
Is it individualized, or one-size-fits-all?

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[Ritajanice]

Agree.
How much latitude do you allow for the experience of others in this matter?
Is it individualized, or one-size-fits-all?

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Well, he does say this.

A Tree and Its Fruit
(Luke 6:43–45)

15Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20So then, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

 

[Truther]

is it always the case that 'speaking in tongues' means speaking is a unlearned language?

The term is used in known languages or unknown languages. In 1 Cor 12, Paul calls known languages divers kinds of tongues. In chapter 14 he calls them unknown tongues. Both are supernatural but differing from each other

 

[Truther]

I had some fluency in tongues before being baptised in the Spirit.


But does 'they' mean every individual ? It seems prophesy and tongues were heard among them, but this does not present evidence that every individual was fluent in tongues.

Not all who are Baptised in the Spirit speak in tongues.

According to the book of Acts, tongues was the official evidence. I defer to evidence for the Holy Ghost infilling

 

[St. SteVen]

The term is used in known languages or unknown languages. In 1 Cor 12, Paul calls known languages divers kinds of tongues. In chapter 14 he calls them unknown tongues. Both are supernatural but differing from each other

Isn't the point, known or unknown to the speaker? ("known" would not be supernatural tongues)
Or do you see something else here?

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[St. SteVen]

According to the book of Acts, tongues was the official evidence.

Did you read the OP?
That is what this topic is about. Challenging that common misconception.

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[St. SteVen]

New topic.

What is the difference between the indwelling Spirit and the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

In a previous topic I asked a question about... https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/why-hadnt-the-baptized-believers-in-samaria-received-the-holy-spirit.54803/ Here are the facts: 1) Those in Samaria were believers (had accepted the word of God) 2) They had received baptism in the name...

www.christianityboard.com

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[Behold]

Five Uses of Tongues
1) Personal prayer language (speaking to God) See Acts 1:5, 1 Corinthians 14:2 and Acts 19:6

That is a prayer language.
Its not one of the 9 Spiritual Gifts.

So, this means that anyone can use this.. .as the NT defines it as "for the edification of yourself"....

5) Evangelistic language (language of the hearers) Like the outpouring at Pentecost. See Acts 2

This is the ability to be able to instantly speak a foreign language... Its the "gift of a foreign language".. its a "tongue".

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● Gal 4:6 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His
son into your hearts calling out: Abba! Father.

That verse reveals something very important. The Spirit of His son always
compels folks unified with Christ to call out to his Father, never to his
mother and/or patron saints and angels, and the reason for that is actually
quite simple. Christ always prays to his Father; never to his mother and/or
patron saints and angels, viz: the Father's children exhibit the very same
behavior because the Spirit of His son compels them to pray like His son
prays.

That, by the way, is a pretty good litmus test. If somebody is comfortable
praying to Jesus' mom and/or patron saints and angels, they give away the
fact that they lack the Spirit of God's son in their hearts; which means of
course that they have yet to undergo adoption into His home.

● Rom 8:15 . . For you have not received a spirit of bondage again to fear;
but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba!
Father.

The Bible instructs folks unified with Christ to pray in the Spirit (Eph 6:18,
Jude 1:20). When people pray in the Spirit; they pray in accordance with
Mark 14:35-36, Gal 4:6, and Rom 8:15. In other words: they don't pray to
Mary and/or patron saints and angels; no, they pray to the son's Father
same as he did.

Bottom line: God's family circle should feel an overwhelming compulsion to
pray to their adoptive Father without having to be told. It should come
naturally (so to speak), just as naturally as it came to Jesus. And they
should feel an equally overwhelming disgust for praying to anybody else.

So then, people with a habit of praying to Jesus' mom and/or patron saints
and angel obviously have neither the spirit of God's son in their heart, nor
the spirit of adoption; and that is a very serious condition to be in.

● Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not
belong to Christ

NOTE: Abba is neither Hebrew nor Greek; it's Aramaic. The word means
father, but not as an ordinary noun, rather, it's a filial vocative.

When my son points me out to one of his friends at the mall and says:
That's my dad over there. then his use of "dad" simply indicates how he
and I are related. But when he shouts: Hey dad, I'm over here! then his
use of "dad" is a filial vocative because he's addressing me personally to get
my attention-- same noun; different sense.
_

 

[Behold]

That, by the way, is a pretty good litmus test. If somebody is comfortabl
praying to Jesus' mom and/or patron saints and angels, they give away the
fact that they lack the Spirit of God's son in their hearts; which means of
course that they have yet to undergo adoption into His home.

_

Not exactly.

See, a larger majority of saved people, are Christians who later became disciple of a cult.

Notice that Paul said of deceived Christians.....>>"WHO has bewitched you, that you no longer obey the Truth"...

Paul didnt tell them......>"you were never saved"...... So... He is showing US that Christians can be deceived, and there are 45,000 Christian denominations in the world right now that prove it.... as there is only one Body of Christ.. ."The Church"... and that is not the "cult of Mary".

 

[Carl Emerson]

According to the book of Acts, tongues was the official evidence. I defer to evidence for the Holy Ghost infilling

According to Paul not all have the gift of tongues.

 

[Behold]

According to Paul not all have the gift of tongues.

And 99% of the people who dont understand that this Gift is a "foreign language"..... as you find Peter using it in Acts 2:38... also dont realize and will never be taught by their denomination, that Paul teaches that this Gift is given because "the Jews require a sign" and "tongues are for a Sign"...

 

[quietthinker]

The short answer is, "Yes." I think the Bible typically uses the term "unknown".
Which has an even broader meaning. (tongues of men and angels)

But most importantly, it is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
And there are many purposes for it.

Five Uses of Tongues
1) Personal prayer language (speaking to God) See Acts 1:5, 1 Corinthians 14:2 and Acts 19:6
2) Intercessory prayer language (prayer in the Spirit) See Romans 8:26
3) Congregational message (preferably with interpretation) 1 Corinthians 14
4) Worship language (singing in tongues) See 1 Corinthians 14:15
5) Evangelistic language (language of the hearers) Like the outpouring at Pentecost. See Acts 2

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Could it be that the ability to speak 'in tongues' is as much a designation of the tongue being loosed to share the Gospel of Jesus as it is speaking a foreign language ?....and is it not true, the Gospel is a foreign language to most.
Consider what, in most of our religious or non religious conversation, we share with each other on an average day?
Is the tongue loosed to share the good news or is 'tongue tiredness' the order of the day.....ie, are we at a loss for what to say and how to say it?

 

[Behold]

Could it be that the ability to speak 'in tongues' is as much a designation of the tongue being loosed to share the Gospel of Jesus

Let say that you have an experience with God... and you know it happened, but its only for you.
And in this experience, God is calling you to become a Missionary.

You then start looking for confirmations from God, because His CALL into a MINISTRY< will be confirmed by God.

And after all of those months go by..., you are packed and have your ticket, and your financial support, and you are going to some place where a lot of the population needs to hear about The Cross of Christ... and you are the one being sent to tell them the good news that God has reconciled them to Himself , through the Cross of Christ, and if they will come to Jesus by faith, He'll give them His "Gift of Salvation".

So, if you are now before them, and most of them do not speak english......and you dont speak their language...

Then what do you need from God so that they can= .., "faith comes by Hearing" the Gospel ???

You need "the Gift of Tongues". as this is . the supernatural ability to fluently speak and understand a foreign language that you never learned, and they need to hear.. to hear about JESUS.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

There are two types of speaking in tongues. The sign of tongues is found in Mark 16:16-18. Mark says nothing about interpretation, therefore, this is between you and God in prayer or praise.

The higher gifts of the Holy Spirit are found in 1 Corinthians 12. Tongues is also mentioned here, but is not the same as in Mark. This is when a person receives a message FROM God, instead of TO God as prayer, and the message MUST be interpreted. These are offices and only a few have need of this gift. 1 Corinthians 14:6 tells us what those messages could be. It includes prophecy. Therefore there are two types of prophecy. One in your own language, and the other as part of speaking in tongues with interpretation.

Many people see 1 Corinthians 12:29-31 as a proof text that not all have the prayer language of tongues. False. The truth is not everyone has an office given them by God. "29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts."

 

[Carl Emerson]

There are two types of speaking in tongues. The sign of tongues is found in Mark 16:16-18. Mark says nothing about interpretation, therefore, this is between you and God in prayer or praise.

The higher gifts of the Holy Spirit are found in 1 Corinthians 12. Tongues is also mentioned here, but is not the same as in Mark. This is when a person receives a message FROM God, instead of TO God as prayer, and the message MUST be interpreted. These are offices and only a few have need of this gift. 1 Corinthians 14:6 tells us what those messages could be. It includes prophecy. Therefore there are two types of prophecy. One in your own language, and the other as part of speaking in tongues with interpretation.

Many people see 1 Corinthians 12:29-31 as a proof text that not all have the prayer language of tongues. False. The truth is not everyone has an office given them by God. "29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts."

Can't say I agree with your interpretation of that verse...

It refers to both the callings and the gifts.

 

[St. SteVen]

According to Paul not all have the gift of tongues.

Seriously?
There are tongues besides the "gift". (#3 below)
I count at least five uses.

Five Uses of Tongues
1) Personal prayer language (speaking to God) See Acts 1:5, 1 Corinthians 14:2 and Acts 19:6
2) Intercessory prayer language (prayer in the Spirit) See Romans 8:26
3) Congregational message (preferably with interpretation) 1 Corinthians 14
4) Worship language (singing in tongues) See 1 Corinthians 14:15
5) Evangelistic language (language of the hearers) Like the outpouring at Pentecost. See Acts 2

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[St. SteVen]

Could it be that the ability to speak 'in tongues' is as much a designation of the tongue being loosed to share the Gospel of Jesus as it is speaking a foreign language ?....and is it not true, the Gospel is a foreign language to most.
Consider what, in most of our religious or non religious conversation, we share with each other on an average day?
Is the tongue loosed to share the good news or is 'tongue tiredness' the order of the day.....ie, are we at a loss for what to say and how to say it?

That's an interesting thought. I probably wouldn't call that the manifestation of tongues, but it could be.

This scripture below reveals an important aspect. Those who have experienced this, can relate to it.
Typically those who argue against tongues pick it apart. However, verse 27 is key to understanding.

Praying in tongues is the Spirit interceding in accordance with the will of God on our behalf.
If we allow the Spirit to pray, the best prayer will be released, even though we can't understand the words.
We yield our most unruly member (our tongue) to the Spirit to use as God wills.

Romans 8:26-27 NIV
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness.
We do not know what we ought to pray for,
but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit,
because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people
in accordance with the will of God.

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[St. SteVen]

Could it be that the ability to speak 'in tongues' is as much a designation of the tongue being loosed to share the Gospel of Jesus as it is speaking a foreign language ?....and is it not true, the Gospel is a foreign language to most.
Consider what, in most of our religious or non religious conversation, we share with each other on an average day?
Is the tongue loosed to share the good news or is 'tongue tiredness' the order of the day.....ie, are we at a loss for what to say and how to say it?

Sometimes when I am out in public, I think I hear people speaking in tongues.
When I look I see foreigners talking among themselves.

What you are describing sounds most like the outpouring at Pentecost. (#5 in the list below)
But you are applying it to English speaking. Certainly God can anoint or words in certain situations.
I wouldn't call it tongues, but it would be a manifestation of the Spirit. See Peter's sermon in Acts 2 and 4.

Five Uses of Tongues
1) Personal prayer language (speaking to God) See Acts 1:5, 1 Corinthians 14:2 and Acts 19:6
2) Intercessory prayer language (prayer in the Spirit) See Romans 8:26
3) Congregational message (preferably with interpretation) 1 Corinthians 14
4) Worship language (singing in tongues) See 1 Corinthians 14:15
5) Evangelistic language (language of the hearers) Like the outpouring at Pentecost. See Acts 2

[