What if you lose your faith?

[GodsGrace]

There is no verse in any bible that says a born again Christian can be "lost".

Exactly. Because they don't exist.
Because Jesus never stated the OSAS unbiblical doctrine which may lead some astray.
Paul never stated that one could NOT lose their salvation...but the opposite.
I'll only post one verse of the many that exist:
1 Timothy 4:1 Paul stated that in later times some will DEPART FROM THE FAITH by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits.

There are verses that are symbolic that talk about candlesticks and branches.
There is a verse that talks about becoming a castaway.
One about "abiding".
etc, etc, but NO Verse says that Christ will Leave the Born again.. That Christ will stop being in union with the Spirit of a Born again Believer, which is the only reason you are SAVED.
Why isn't that verse in any bible or greek lexicon? ?
Because Jesus never leaves you, once you are joined to him, as "one with God", "in Christ".

I agree.
Whoever said that Jesus leaves a born again believer?
Do you know the parable of the lost sheep?
NOTHING can separate us from the love God has from us...
(except ourselves).

Please note your correct last sentence...
we are joined with God IN Christ.

If we are not IN CHRIST we cannot be saved.
John 3:16 We must BELIEVE in Christ to be saved. Whosoever believes in Him... Present Tense.
John 15:6 If we do NOT ABIDE in Christ we are thrown away as a branch and burned.

Paul said:
Colossians 1:22-23
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

You respect Paul...how do you explain that one away?

faith does not keep you saved.
Faith is not the savior.
God accepts your faith ONCE....one time only, and that is it, its done.
How do you know?
=BORN AGAIN.
And if you are just water baptized, playing Catholic church games, then that is not the same.

Sounds like you're the one playing games Behold.
God can accept you more than one time.
Do you know the parable of the Prodigal Son?
Are you reading the bible in Hebrew?
Maybe you don't know the language that well?

 

[Behold]

I agree.
Whoever said that Jesus leaves a born again believer?

Paul said:
Colossians 1:22-23
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

You respect Paul...how do you explain that one away?

If Christ is in you, and you went to hell, (Lost your salvation) then Christ would go to hell with you, as you are in Spiritual Union with Christ.

Next.

Paul said you can be presented before Jesus, as Blameless".
So, you see you will be before Jesus, and not in Hell.
Unbelievers do not meet Jesus......upon their death.

So, to be presented blameless, is to never have had an occasion where you backslid or lost faith for a season.
You will still meet Jesus if you have had that time in your life where your faith was cold.... or dead.., so, you are not blameless in THAT, and the Judgment seat of Christ will find that out.
So, its not about SIN....its about a level of faith that does not get "dead" or "cold", and that is rare to find in a Christian that has 50 yrs of it.
That ONE< will meet Jesus blameless of that ..... most of the born again will not., as most have backslidden or had a time when God was just not that important.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ferris Bueller, likes to try to bend the bible to his bizarre "i am saving myself" theology, using a verse.
He never reads past his "gotcha verse attempt", because his commentaries also dont.

See, In the verse that has tangled you up, its says...... IF WE HOLD.

But then, read a little farther, as the bible is very interesting, in that it will explain one verse with another.

Like this....Hebrews 4:3

Notice it says that "we who HAVE Believed, enter into the REST" that the verse is talking about.... and not by continuing to believe, but HAVE ALREADY.

And now who is it that verse Hebrews 3:14 is talking about, as its not the born again.

Its the UNBELIEVERS... Hebrews 4:7



Study the word, reader, and not just one verse.

Hebrews 3:12-14
The Peril of Unbelief

12Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
13But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Behold,
Perhaps you'd like to read Hebrews 3:14 again?
It certainly does NOT agree with your belief system.




Hebrews 4:3-13
3For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,
“AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,”
although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS”; 5and again in this passage, “THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.” 6Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

7He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.”

8For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. 11Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience. 12For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.


I do think you have to reread the above too...
Both scriptures you posted do not agree with your theology...
Unless, of course, you wish to explain it - which I doubt you could since it does not say what you think it says.

 

[Behold]

God can accept you more than one time.
Do you know the parable of the Prodigal Son?

God does not have to accept you more then once.
As being Born again, once, is enough.

And yes, i know the parable of the Prodigal.
You were telling us recently that you'd get rid of your child if they didnt behave as you would have it.
You were explaining that your love is not unconditional, for your kids, and that you'd get rid of them if they turned their back on you.
So, its you GodsGrace, that has no real understanding of the Father's Love for the one that left.

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree with you, firstly because nobody truly KNOWS if they're saved even if they call themself a Christian, and secondly they lay themselves open to the demon of arrogance who makes them think "I'm saved, Satan can't touch me now", so they foolishly drop their guard against him.

For example Hitler used to go to church and possibly thought "I'm OSAS so whatever I do won't endanger my soul".
View attachment 23201

You said something very important.
Highligted above...
"I'm saved, Satan can't touch me now", so they foolishly drop their guard against him.


And this is why OSAS is such a devilish doctrine.

 

[GodsGrace]

For the love of God—— PLEASE change your misleading name !

No. My name is just fine.

Perhaps YOU could change your unbiblical doctrine?

 

[Behold]

14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
.

here is how you know that this verse has to be "rightly divided" and not just read and retreaded.

Notice now.

The born again, already have eternal life, and Jesus says that "no once can take them out of my hand".
And that includes NOONE... = the born again person themselves.
Salvation is our Gift., and "the Gifts of God (Salvation) are without repentance'. = will never be removed.....for any reason.
So, when you read your verse, and then Jesus says that the born again shall "never perish"....... you have to use other verses to compare with a verse that is an orphan.
If you dont do this, the the one verse will cause the rest of the verses to not exist for you, in your understanding.

 

[GodsGrace]

You are correct ....” Endurance” does not Save....
But lets “ pretend” for just a minute......let’s say that you “ DO” have to endure.....well, the Believer has THAT covered also....
I’ll quote it again—- “.... and who is it that Endures other than he that Believes that Jesus” is the Son Of God”

Could you PLEASE post the verse you're speaking of?
Thanks.

 

[Behold]

No. My name is just fine.

Your theology contradicts the Cross, but your nam that you use here does not.
So, that is why its a very deceptive thing you have created as your alt.

 

[GodsGrace]

here is how you know that this verse has to be "rightly divided" and not just read and retreaded.

Notice now.

The born again, already have eternal life, and Jesus says that "no once can take them out of my hand".
And that includes NOONE... = the born again person themselves.
Salvation is our Gift., and "the Gifts of God (Salvation) are without repentance'. = will never be removed.....for any reason.
So, when you read your verse, and then Jesus says that the born again shall "never perish"....... you have to use other verses to compare with a verse that is an orphan.
If you dont do this, the the one verse will cause the rest of the verses to not exist for you, in your understanding.

My verse is not an orphan.
But I tire of posting so many verse which show you are incorrect in your doctrine,
and you post back that a verse IN PLAIN ENGLISH has to be rightly divided.

Please rightly divide that verse for me.
BTW...it was YOUR verse, which apparently you do not understand.

Perhaps you like to avoid the sentences I underlined?

 

[Behold]

And this is why OSAS is such a devilish doctrine.

OSAS, was created in the time of JUDE, as a way to deceive believers out of the true understanding of God's Grace. He speaks about how the Devil used some of his deceived to turn the Grace of God, into the idea of "license"
You dont know this., and here you are doing it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Your theology contradicts the Cross, but your nam that you use here does not.
So, that is why its a very deceptive thing you have created as your alt.

Did you like the name Wondering better?

 

[GodsGrace]

OSAS, was created in the time of JUDE, as a way to deceive believers out of the true understanding of God's Grace.
You dont know this.

I'll believe it if you could prove it...

 

[GodsGrace]

Your theology contradicts the Cross, but your nam that you use here does not.
So, that is why its a very deceptive thing you have created as your alt.

Behold,
We're not discussing soteriology here.
YOU are discussing the unbiblical doctrine of OSAS.

If you wish to discuss soteriology, I'll be happy to join in.

 

[Behold]

and you post back that a verse IN PLAIN ENGLISH has to be rightly divided.

All verses have to be "scripture compared with scripture", and "rightly divided".

You dont think so, as long as you can read them like they are in a phone book, as you just explained.
So, i can't change what you dont know.
I can only show you what to see.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace Here's a good, Scriptural hymn from A. Toplady:

"1. A debtor to mercy alone,
Of covenant mercy I sing;
Nor fear, with Thy righteousness on,
My person and offering to bring.
The terrors of law and of God
With me can have nothing to do;
My Savior's obedience and blood
Hide all my transgressions from view

2. The work which His goodness began,
The arm of His strength will complete;
His promise is yea and amen,
And never was forfeited yet.
Things future, nor things that are now,
Not all things below nor above
Can make Him His purpose forego,
Or sever my soul from His love.

3. My name from the palms of His hands
Eternity will not erase;
Impressed on His heart it remains
In marks of indelible grace.
Yes, I to the end shall endure,
As sure as the earnest is given
More happy, but not more secure,
The glorified spirits in heaven."

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1.6).

Sorry Farouk

I'm not interested in hymns except when I'm in church.
We're discussing theology here.
And OSAS is not biblical and I intend to say this for as long as I can type.

 

[Behold]

I'll believe it if you could prove it...

First you would have to actually understand that Blood Atonement, and the Gospel of the Grace of God, that Paul says is "MY Gospel".

Start there.

Then, you have to do what Hebrews 13:9 says, AFTER you understand the other i just wrote.

 

[Behold]

And OSAS is not biblical and I intend to say this for as long as I can type.

OSAS is a subversive theology that came about in Paul's day, that Jude wrote about.

You dont know this, but what you accuse me of Teaching, as OSAS, is what they said they said Paul was also Teaching.

Jude explained that what the Devil had done was .....created this idea that God's Grace, is "license" or, what you would refer to as "cheap grace".
And then a person's self righteousness would keep them from ever understanding God Grace, who had been infected by this deception.
That is how the Devil created this deception to work. And it works very well.
You have it.
Ferris has it.
Gen2Rev
Grailhunter
and about 5-10 other people here have it who post about it on this forum, and shout their LEGALISM< for "as long as they can type", that is produced by this same deception that has been born in their minds to believe that God's Grace is "license to sin".

 

[GodsGrace]

I dont mentioned the Idea of OSAS,.
Heretics all bring this up, as for them, it likes a bone to a dog.

Jesus did say that you have eternal life if you are born again, and eternal life is not temporary.
Jesus did say you will "never Perish".
Jesus did say that no one can take the born again away from Him, and that includes the born again themselves.

Also, if Heretics didnt find my Threads like black bugs to a Light, i would not be doing my Job here, as a servant of Father God.
Listen.
If heretics agreed with me, then that would be exactly wrong for them.

I use Heretics,.
How?
= On my Threads and often in my posts....Heretics show the literal contrast between the Gift of God and their self saving self righteousness.
See, i post about Christ on the Cross, and Heretics Post about themselves on the Cross. "keeping myself saved, if im good, do this, and dont do that"...

What does this accomplish for 40 pages of Thread's like this one?
Its for the people who are not Heretics to see the distinction, and be able to recognize people like you.
And its for the new Christian, most of all.....who find this place...... so that they can see the contrast between me giving credit to Christ and people like you and Ferris Bueller who want to deny that Christ Keeps you saved, and teach that the blood of Jesus is only as good as your behavior.

So, because people like you do this constantly on my Threads, real believers, not faith corrupted, can protect themselves by learning how to spot people like you and Ferris Bueller, and Gen2Rev, and Grailhunter, and Robert N..... and a few others here whose only reason to be on a Christian forum is to try to ruin the faith of a Real Believer., as you have nothing else to say, most of the time.

Lets look at you as more of the example.
You post symbolic verses, and try to teach they are literal.. like the 'branch'.
You post a verse about "abiding", because you dont understand what it means to be "ONE WITH GOD", "in Christ"., ALREADY.
You post a verse bout turning back or shrinking back, from some obscure new bible, and think that this means "lost your salvation", which is your obsession.
You post a verse about Paul, and i think its the "cast away" verse, and you have no idea what this is talking about. But because you are a person that would throw your own children away, according to your own words, if they dont perform according to your odd mindset, you always think that God is just like you.

Here is an update. He's not anything like you.
He's Just like Jesus, and Jesus told us that "I will never leave you".........and how can He..... when Christ in INSIDE THE BORN AGAIN.
AND THAT IS one more situation you have no idea about, GodsGrace.

What is an obscure bible?
I've already asked you this with no reply.
I use the NASB and have many others including Italian ones.
They all say the same...
Maybe YOU have some obscure bible and think others use it?

Jesus spoke in parables.
But He MEANT what He said.
Do you know WHY He spoke in parables?

You also never replied to unconditional love.
Do YOU love someone unconditionally?
It would be nice if you loved your fellow Christians and taught them what Jesus and Paul taught.
And OSAS is not one of their teachings.

Jesus will never leave us.
But there are persons that leave Jesus.
One admitted person is right here on this thread.
You just refuse to believe this so you claim that the person was never saved to begin with.
Nonsense.
Did you look into Luke 8:13, Matthew 13:21
Do these verses also tell you that one cannot fall away?
And what EXACTLY would one be falling away from if these two words are used many times in the NT?

You pick and choose your verses to suit your needs.

I wonder if persons like you are just so worried that they might be lost that they make up this doctrine, which did not even exist at the time of the early church.

 

[Behold]

Did you like the name Wondering better?

Well, arn't you?