What if you lose your faith?

[BloodBought 1953]

Lol, this is funny. Right there in Hebrews 3 it says the person who does not hold firmly does not belong to the house of God:

"6But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are His house, if we hold firmlyc to our confidence and the hope of which we boast." Hebrews 3:6

"14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first." Hebrews 3:14​

You don't seem to realize that the original OSAS...the one that was around before your stupid 'woke' OSAS gospel...understood these verses to mean the person who fell away was never saved to begin with. But your goofy new version of OSAS says you are of His house and have come to share in Christ even if you DON'T hold firmly to the very end. That is in complete and utter contradiction to the verses I posted above. Completely and utterly!

In a nutshell, both of these verses ( and I am sure there are others) have to do with Endurance, and this Endurance seems to be Mandatory.....

This is something that the Believer doesn't have to worry about if he is a Good Student Of The Word....
1John5:5 begs the question “ Who is it that Endures?” ....” it is he that Believes that Jesus is the Son Of God”....

It’s that simple.....it does not matter what you throw out there to try to disprove OSAS....The Bible says that if you put your Complete Trust in Jesus to Save you, You ALREADY HAVE Eternal Life and NOTHING can Condemn you.....NOTHING actually “ means” NOTHING .....

The Bible also says that “ Anybody that asks to be Saved WILL be Saved” .....therefore , if one has to “ endure”, “ obey” or stand on their head and whistle “ Dixie” in order to be Saved , the Onus is on God to see that whatever is required gets carried out....whatever must be done that is required for Salvation —- for God to keep His Promise —- it will come to pass ......Whatever must be avoided to Lose your Salvation —- God Will Also See to it that that does NOT happen.....

God is the One that “stuck His neck out” with His Wonderful and Assuring Promises—Not me.....I just Trust Him to do what He said would do .....That is Faith....Faith is what Saves, and I have it....” HE will finish the Good Work in me that He started...

 

[GodsGrace]

Fruit is the evidence of faith.

Those who are severed did not have faith.

This is the old THEY WERE NEVER REALLY SAVED idea.
Maybe you could provide some verses that state this?
The verse in John saying that some left is speaking about Gnostics. Yes, they were not of the believers.
Every other verse that speaks about falling away or not abiding or losing faith, etc. is spoken to believers.

Take care BROTHERS, lest there be in any of you an unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.
Hebrews 3:12

We're discussing John 15:2, 6
Let's take a look:

John 15:1-6
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.


From the above we can learn:

God Father is the vinedresser. Jesus is the vine.
If a branch does not bear fruit, it is taken away.
If a branch bears fruit, it is pruned so that it bears even more fruit.
We are already cleaned (pruned) by the word which Jesus has spoken to His believers.
REMAIN in Christ and He will remain in you. Why? Because a branch CANNOT BEAR FRUIT unless it abides on the Vine (Jesus).
Apart from Jesus we can do nothing. He is the Vine, We are the branches. IF we abide in Him we will bear much fruit.
IF anyone DOES NOT ABIDE in Christ, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up. These branches are gathered up and cast intothe fire and are burned...IOW, they are USELESS and are thrown away.

So yes, CE, it is about bearing fruit...
but what if we don't abide in Christ?
Can we still bear fruit or will we be thrown away as a dead branch?

Seems simple enough.

 

[GodsGrace]

A real believer with a love relationship with Christ would never do this.

A poster on this very thread has stated that he abandoned God.

Is a REAL believer different from a believer?
What could be more than believing??

 

[GodsGrace]

Personally no, but no doubt some people can't stay the course, in which case I doubt whether they were true Christians in the first place..:)

"I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith" (2 Timothy 4:7)

They were true Christians Dropship.

You and some others just can't accept it.
Please read my last few posts...I can't repeat.

This is a poor excuse and not found in scripture.
If you can find some verses, could you post them please?

 

[Marymog]

Of course. What's not to understand about the unity of the body of believers in a Communion/Passover observance?

Lol....Partaking in the bread and wine at communion is done in "remembrance" of Him, just like he asked us to do. So why did your men teach you that it is a "Communion/Passover observance". Passover is a Jewish thing and has NOTHING to do with what us Christians do at communion. Maybe I am misunderstanding you!

As you know Paul's rhetorical question is a statement. That statement is, The cup of blessing which we bless is communion of the blood of Christ and the bread which we break is communion of the body of Christ!

So, have your men taught you that when you partake of the communion bread and wine at your church gatherings that the bread and wine is as Paul and Jesus said it is; His body and blood?

 

[Marymog]

When believers do that, obviously, that passage is fulfilled.

Lol...you didn't answer the question. You made a general statement about that passage.

So, once again, When you and your denomination meets do you fulfil 1 Corinthians 11:24?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Yep, Lol. It appears falling away into a works salvation gospel is the only unbelief that a believer can fall into that their hyper-grace OSAS doctrine doesn't cover. It's quite hypocritical, lol. Comical, in fact.[/


The “Works Salvationist” is akin to the “Unbeliever”.......

Be an Unbeliever for a LIFETIME and you are lost ....be a Believer who falls into the Error Of Unbelief after he had already qualified by the Promise Of Jesus as one that was “ ALREADY SAVED” and could * NEVER* “ come under Condemnation” - That Guy is still Saved......He’s gonna PAY Big-Time down here with a lousy life and he’s gonna pay Big - Time “ Up there” as he stands before Jesus “ fearful and ashamed” , yet He is Saved because God will Keep His Word....Personally speaking, I think God will bring him back to Belief again as he did me....I can’t prove that that is true or everyone...

It’s the same for the “ Works Salvationist” .....if he believes his entire life that he will get Saved by being “ A good boy” —- a guy that foolishly thinks he is doing a good enough job of “ keeping the Law” in order to be Justified before God—— he May as well be an Unbeliever—- He is Lost also

Any Believer that falls into Error or Stumbles into Legalism that was a person that ever Believed the Gospel one time or ever sincerely “ Asked to be Saved”.....that guy will be Saved because God has said in His Word that “ Anybody that ASKS to be Saved, WILL be Saved....as I have put it rather crudely many times—- God WILL keep His Word—- the “ Monkey” is on His back.....He can handle it

 

[Marymog]

Women are not to speak in pastoral authority in a church meeting.

Oh goodness...and you accuse me of playing games. Let's try this again Ferris. That passage does NOT say anything about women not being allowed to speak in pastoral authority in a church meeting. It clearly says, Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak;

So lets try this again....... does your denomination allow women to speak while you are in a church service?

 

[Marymog]

If you have an open meeting where orderly participation and discussion is allowed 1 Corinthians 14:26-31 is fulfilled just as Apostle Paul says it is to be. But which the Catholic church rejects.

Oh goodness.....what is your definition of an "open meeting"?

You are wearing this old gal out with your twisting, turning and dodging....

 

[Behold]

He says the BELIEVING person has eternal life and will never perish. You changed it to the UNBELIEVING person has eternal life and will never perish.

What my Thread states is that God accepts your faith ONCE, and you are born again ONCE.... THEN... Not in a week, or 2 yrs later., or as soon as you are water baptized 3 months from now.

You take Christ, God takes you. Done. SAVED.. You have eternal life, and Christ is in you, and you have become "The Temple of the Holy Spirit".
This proves that God has accepted your faith, already, and if 20 yrs later...you have a mind bender, or a breakdown, or a faith crisis , then that is a Son of God having it all the way to Heaven.
Once born again, you are ALWAYS born again.

 

[GodsGrace]

“Though we might be Unfaithful—- HE REMAINS FAITHFUL”
If the Believer falls into Error —- even if he falls into “Unbelief”.....that unbelief is a sin.....and it’s covered by the Blood....

I once fell from Belief and became an Unbeliever.....God, in His Amazing Grace and Mercy brought me back.....I believe this will be the same experience for other who May have lost their Faith.... God will bring a Foolish and erring Sheep back into His Fold...and If He does not, the Mistake is covered by Grace...

Yes. The Lost Sheep.
Welcome back brother! God searches for His sheep and always welcomes the lost ones back into the fold.

I do have 2 comments:

First, 2 Timothy 2:13 does not what you believe it means.
If it did, scripture would be contradicting itself with 2 Timothy 2:12 which states that if we deny Him, He will also deny us.

GOD REMAINS FAITHFUL BECAUSE HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF means something totally different.
Perhaps you could do a quick study on this. I'm not here to teach anybody anything and we should learn for ourselves.


Also, you say that unbelief is a sin and the blood covers that sin.
If that's true, then why is unbelief the UNPARDONABLE sin??
Unbelief is the only sin which cannot be pardoned.

 

[GodsGrace]

I do! It was Me....

Jesus taught in the Prodigal Son...
For the son was lost but he has been found AGAIN.
Luke 15:24

God is love...1 John 4:8

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't think Farouk was saying otherwise.
Dead faith is the indicator that you have not been made righteous (justified) by faith. Dead faith is really NO faith. Works, on the other hand, show that you are righteous by faith. And so a person is justified that way, too - shown to be righteous by his works. The word 'justified' means, both, to be MADE righteous, and to be SHOWN to be righteous.

I think we can all agree that our works are a sign of our believing in Jesus and what He taught.

I'm not going to argue over a word.
James used the word JUSTIFICATION,
he should have used the word SANCTIFICATION.

Theologically, this difference has been worked out by better brains than ours and anyone interested could look up the two words and realize that works do not save...only belief saves.
Works come after...this is sanctification.

 

[Behold]

Jesus taught in the Prodigal Son...
For the son was lost but he has been found AGAIN.
Luke 15:24

The Father had 2 Sons..

2 Sons
2 Sons.

See that?
Both were Sons.
One was a son in the house, and one was a son in the pig pen.

The younger SON< was always a son......>He never stopped being a son.

What is that Parable?
You can take it a few ways..

1.)....>"God's unconditional love"

2.) John 3:16. "For God so loved the world"......this is the "sons in the pigpen"..... that whosoever believes in Christ....That is the son coming Home from the Pig Pen......... "Give him the BEST Robe'......And that is God giving RIGHTEOUSNESS to a "saved sinner", who has believed......and become a born again Son/Daughter of Christ

 

[Marymog]

If someone stood up in a Catholic Mass and started speaking in tongues they would be escorted out of the meeting. I know it, you know it. The point you're not getting is the meeting of the saints is to be PARTICAPATORY. Participation by the 'audience' in your rigidly controlled system of one-sided meeting together is not allowed. You know it, I know it. This is true of most other denominations, too.

Speaking in tongues is not required. Sometimes there is the move of the Spirit that way, sometimes there is not. The point is, it is not to be suppressed.

Hmmmm......so now you are telling me what I know?? Fascinating!! That is a bit presumptuous of you.

Here is what I know. The Church does NOT discourage speaking in tongues and teach that it is a valid gift to some from the Holy Spirit. Any person who escorts a person speaking in tongues out of the church would not be doing that with the backing of The Church.

Here is what you don't know. There are catholic churches that have members who speak in tongues. You should do some research before giving your opinion ;)

I am glad that we agree that "speaking in tongues is not required" during a church service and we don't have to....as you said...."submit to the counsel of Apostle Paul" at every church service. Soooooo we got rid of speaking in tongues as a requirement during church service. What about hymn, a lesson, a revelation or an interpretation which also are part of 1 Cor. 14:26?

 

[Behold]

So I should not be concerned about sleeping with my step mother?
.

You should be very concerned with trying to ruin the faith of Real Believers on a "christian" forum.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace The Lord sees the heart; what I would say is that if someone is dies lost in unbelief, having previously professed faith, the previous profession of faith was a profession, but not genuine, saving faith.

But the words of Jesus and Paul and the other writers do not agree with this statement many make that the professing believer was not really saved.

The NT teaches that salvation can be forfeited.
I posted some verses in my other posts from before.

How do you reconcile these verses??:

Romans 6:23 Eternal life IN Christ Jesus. No Christ, no salvation.
John 15:6 Anyone not abiding in Christ is thrown away as a dead branch.
Revelation 3:1-3 Strengthen what remains and is about to die.
Hebrews 10:39 Some shrink back and are destroyed.
1 Corinthians 9:27 Even Paul disciplined himself so as not to be disqualified.

There are so many more about falling away, enduring, IFs, etc.

Are you aware that OSAS did not even exist till the years 1,500AD?
Why do you think that is?
Because it was never taught...either in the NT or by the Apostles....
and those they taught...

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace The Good Shepherd section of John 10 is a great passage.

Amen.
Every word of Jesus is great.
I listen to what He had to say more than anyone else.
However, what Paul said does sync with what Jesus said.
Thankfully !

 

[GodsGrace]

You should be very concerned with trying to ruin the faith of Real Believers on a "christian" forum.

What is a REAL BELIEVER?

Is Ferris not a real believer because He agrees with what Jesus taught?
Am I not a real believer because I agree with what Jesus taught?

Why was OSAS never even heard of in the church until 1,500 years after Jesus died?

 

[GodsGrace]

There is no “ contradiction” .....you know that I would never say that anybody could ever keep the Commandments PERFECTLY!

Here is what I am saying.....One is not Saved by keeping the Commandments...One does not have to keep them or try to keep them in order to obtain Salvation or maintain Salvation....Only Two things SAVE us—- “Christ’s” Blood and “ OUR” Faith.....

The best way to increase one’s percentage of Law keeping—- even though it does not save but gives you a more blessed life the better you “ DO” keep it , is to STOP TRYING! Try “ THIS” instead —- Concentrate on KNOWING HIM ! If you come to “Know” God, that is the secret to “ Loving” God.....If you Love God and allow that Love to be the Engine that drives your Obedience, you will *FIND YOURSELF* doing God’s Will,without having to try so hard...it will come naturally ....you need to “ Let go and Let God” ......it takes Faith......it takes Trust, and that is the Main Thing That God Wants to see....Start Trusting instead of Trying....You’ll do a better job of True Obedience and Commandment Keeping by ACCiDENT than the guy who is “ sweating it out” — constantly trying to “ make himself worthy” by a Commandment - Keeping life That has its origins in fear instead of gratitude and Love .....One must understand that we can NEVER “clean ourselves up” and become “ worthy” —— we are * MADE WORTHY” by our Faith in the Blood Of The Lamb....when you realize that you do not “HAVE” to keep the Commandments , you paradoxically do a BETTER job of KEEPING them ...yeah, Christianity is crazy that way....just the OPPOSITE of what the World and confused, insecure Believers think....

Agreed with all BB.

But saying the above is different than when persons say one can never forfeit their salvation.
It's two totally different statements.
I wish you guys would realize this...

Jesus said His Friends would obey Him and that His commandments are not burdensome.
John 14:15 IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS
1 John 5:3 FOR THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AND HIS COMMANDMENTS ARE NOT BURDENSOME.

And why are they not burdensome?
Because of our love for Him...just as you stated.