What if you lose your faith?

[BloodBought 1953]

Why do you keep responding to MY posts with this???? Like I said, I think you're smart enough to know that I'm not making any argument whatsoever for works earning or keeping salvation. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here. You don't seem dumb, so stop responding to my posts as if I've been saying works earn your salvation and keep it. Show me you're smart enough to actually understand what I've been saying. Works DO NOT earn salvation. I have never believed that they do.

Thanks for saying that I am not “dumb” .....Tragically, you may have over- estimated me ....lol...

Let me try to clear this up....I think that many people in here are way to “ Bible- Savvy” to let somebody declare that “ Works Earn Salvation” and get away with it....it’s just too simple to shut down....I think that you are very aware of that fact and therefore take a “ back door” approach to Works.....In my opinion, you essentially believe that “ Works don’t save, BUT if you “ Don’t” have them , you are NOT SAVED.....” and you think that “ BB” is “ Comical!” .....
Make no mistake, I know that God “created us unto Good Works”...... let the Holy Spirit “ hang around” long enough and I think it is bound to happen —- I am just saying ( and mainly, theoretically ) that it does Not *HAVE* to happen.....it is NOT the Elixir to obtain Forgiveness —- Faith is!

If it were essential for Salvation , Jesus could have told the thief on the Cross —- “ Hey, you got everything right! You are Turning to me with a Repentant Heart and Trusting In me to Save you! You almost made it, but I can’t save you because you can’t do any works to prove it....I realize that you are in a situation where you Can’t do much of anything, but standards are standards and you are just out of luck”

I understand the absurdity of this , but I am just trying to make a point....I think good works “should” come and I think that they “ will “ come.....I just hold to the position that they do not “ HAVE” to.....isn’t that where we disagree?

 

[Marymog]

And as far as 1 Corinthians 5, you yourself are the one who pooh-poohed that. You've been trying so hard to discredit all the churches that don't things 'your' way. That is so typical of cold, dead religion. I'm quite sick of it. Very, very few people who call themselves 'Christian' know what really counts and matters in the Christian faith. And it ain't your cold, dead, legalistically accurate church services. That's a joke.

Lol....well, it is not my way or the highway Ferris. It is a matter of what Scripture says and not what you say....which is your opinion!

Scripture says that there are appointed elders in every church (Acts 14:23) and that they are to shepherd the flock of God, exercising oversight and they are to be examples to the flock and we are to be subject to those elders (1 Peter 5:1-5). They are worthy of double honor (1 Timothy 5) and the Holy Spirit has made them overseers to care for the church of God (Acts 20:28) further saying that we are to submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as they will have to give an account (Hebrews 13:17).

Notice how I have given Scripture to back up what I say and you give....well, you give....your opinion. Stop pooh-poohing Scripture Ferris. ;)

 

[GodsGrace]

The Father had 2 Sons..

2 Sons
2 Sons.

See that?
Both were Sons.
One was a son in the house, and one was a son in the pig pen.

The younger SON< was always a son......>He never stopped being a son.

What is that Parable?
You can take it a few ways..

1.)....>"God's unconditional love"

2.) John 3:16. "For God so loved the world"......this is the "sons in the pigpen"..... that whosoever believes in Christ....That is the son coming Home from the Pig Pen......... "Give him the BEST Robe'......And that is God giving RIGHTEOUSNESS to a "saved sinner", who has believed......and become a born again Son/Daughter of Christ

Why do you just take what you like?

The father had 2 sons.
One left. He took his inheritance, 2/3 of the inheritance, and left.
JESUS said he became lost.
It's Jesus telling the parable.

In Luke 15:24 Jesus states that the lost son that had abandoned his father
was DEAD and had come to life AGAIN. He WAS LOST and has been FOUND.

It's plain English Behold.
You and others just refuse to read the NT, the entire NT.
You cannot pick and choose which verses you like.
The entire NT has to be reconciled within all of the verses.

OSAS does NOT make any sense when reading the entire NT.

Luke 8:13 Jesus said some BELIEVE for a while and then fall away.

Do we not believe Jesus?
HE said some believe for a while. If one believes he's saved, right?
Then he falls away.
WHAT is he falling away from??

Falling away in the NT always refers to one's faith.
If it's spoken of so much, it must surely be very important NOT to fall away.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I am glad that we agree that "speaking in tongues is not required" during a church service and we don't have to....as you said...."submit to the counsel of Apostle Paul" at every church service.

Well I see you are not very educated about the gifts or the scriptures...besides not taking the time to read my posts with understanding and see what I actually wrote. It's not commanded to talk in tongues. That comes from the Spirit. It happens when it happens. The counsel of Paul is to not forbid it. Catholic meetings are not allowed to be interrupted by 'audience' contribution, even though Paul expressly tells us that is how to conduct a meeting of the saints. The Catholic leadership does not submit to the scriptures they are sure they are submitted to in complete obedience.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Lol....well, it is not my way or the highway Ferris. It is a matter of what Scripture says and not what you say....which is your opinion!

Scripture says that there are appointed elders in every church (Acts 14:23) and that they are to shepherd the flock of God, exercising oversight and they are to be examples to the flock and we are to be subject to those elders (1 Peter 5:1-5). They are worthy of double honor (1 Timothy 5) and the Holy Spirit has made them overseers to care for the church of God (Acts 20:28) further saying that we are to submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as they will have to give an account (Hebrews 13:17).

Notice how I have given Scripture to back up what I say and you give....well, you give....your opinion. Stop pooh-poohing Scripture Ferris. ;)

Ah, yes. Another narcissist who can't admit they've been corrected. Deflection in all it's inglorious beauty.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Why was OSAS never even heard of in the church until 1,500 years after Jesus died?


I don’t know....I DO know that Jesus taught it and Paul taught it.....I don’t know the Truth Of How it got lost but I believe that it was Luther who rescued the Lost Message Of Paul....Some people claim that their was a “ Red Thread Of Truth” That God had all along since Jesus but they were unknown to the World.....God has always had at least a few True Believers on this planet That knew and lived the Truth Of Nothing But The Blood For Salvation and they knew that Salvation could never be forfeited once obtained....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You should be very concerned with trying to ruin the faith of Real Believers on a "christian" forum.

Thank you for that deflection.

Now about that 'let' and 'if' you ignore in 1 John 2:24...

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Here is what you don't know. There are catholic churches that have members who speak in tongues. You should do some research before giving your opinion ;)

Oh, how sad. Twisting the argument to make it so I've been saying Catholics don't speak in tongues. How pathetic.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Hmmmm......so now you are telling me what I know?? Fascinating!! That is a bit presumptuous of you.

If you do not know how your Catholic Mass is conducted you have a real problem. You're deflecting. You know full well the Catholic church has failed to submit to the counsel of Apostle Paul in the matter of the meeting of the saints. You can't admit it. You're too proud to do that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'm not going to argue over a word.
James used the word JUSTIFICATION,
he should have used the word SANCTIFICATION.

No, no. Just do a simple Google search of the different definitions of 'justified'. Why haven't you done that? I even posted it for you, I think it was you, but I even pointed out which definition Paul was using and which definition James was using.

 

[farouk]

But the words of Jesus and Paul and the other writers do not agree with this statement many make that the professing believer was not really saved.

The NT teaches that salvation can be forfeited.
I posted some verses in my other posts from before.

How do you reconcile these verses??:

Romans 6:23 Eternal life IN Christ Jesus. No Christ, no salvation.
John 15:6 Anyone not abiding in Christ is thrown away as a dead branch.
Revelation 3:1-3 Strengthen what remains and is about to die.
Hebrews 10:39 Some shrink back and are destroyed.
1 Corinthians 9:27 Even Paul disciplined himself so as not to be disqualified.

There are so many more about falling away, enduring, IFs, etc.

Are you aware that OSAS did not even exist till the years 1,500AD?
Why do you think that is?
Because it was never taught...either in the NT or by the Apostles....
and those they taught...

@GodsGrace If the truly saved person subsequently is not saved....then the Cross becomes a glorious failure.

Romans 8.38-39 strongly shows the eternal security of the believer.

John's First Epistle strongly shows the assurance of the true believer.

For someone who is securely saved for time and eternity through faith in the Person and Work of Christ ... to have to keep trying supposedly to remain saved or trying to achieve salvation in the end...is to add works and human merit to the finished work of Christ received by grace through faith.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

and if 20 yrs later...you have a mind bender, or a breakdown, or a faith crisis , then that is a Son of God having it all the way to Heaven.

Sorry, pal, that violates truths of scripture that you have chosen to ignore. I find it interesting that you and BB can look right at the plain words of scripture, over and over, and still defer to your personal beliefs that contradict what you can see with your own eyes in scripture. I've always been amazed at the ability of people to do that. Quite fascinating.

 

[Behold]

But saying the above is different than when persons say one can never forfeit their salvation.
.

You can't forfeit a BIRTH.
And to be saved is to be BORN...... again.
That's a birth....and you can't end a birth because you lose faith one day after you are saved.
Once you are born again, you are always born again.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, no. Just do a simple Google search of the different definitions of 'justified'. Why haven't you done that? I even posted it for you, I think it was you, but I even pointed out which definition Paul was using and which definition James was using.

Don't need to do a google search FB.
You didn't post it for me, BTW.

Let me see if I can find a link quick and see if we agree...

 

[GodsGrace]

You can't forfeit a BIRTH.
And to be saved is to be BORN...... again.
That's a birth....and you can't end a birth because you lose faith one day after you are saved.
Once you are born again, you are always born again.

Of course you can forfeit a birth.
The lost son did.
Jesus said you could.

Could you post some verses, as I did, that state that a person CANNOT ever forfeit their faith?

 

[Marymog]

Oh, how sad. Twisting the argument to make it so I've been saying Catholics don't speak in tongues. How pathetic.

You have me sooooo confused Ferris...you make no sense.

You have accused The Church of NOT adhering to Paul's instructions 1 Corinthians 14 of which mentions speaking in tongues. That is the gist of your argument. Sooooo NOW what are you saying? It seems that you are NOW saying that you do know that Catholics speak in tongues!

Can you clarify?

 

[Behold]

Sorry, pal,

Im not your pal.
I have no evidence given by you, that you are born again.
You exist on my Threads, and on this forum, to try to deny that Jesus keeps you saved.
You're a deceiver, in that regard, in 500 posts, at least, and that will not allow us to end up on the same side on the Forum.

Ferris Bueller.....ive given you on this Thread, and not just this one, about 5 opportunities to talk about the Cross and how Jesus's finished work, is why you go to heaven. John 14:6
And you are so very silent about this, because ... how could you not be.
See, people like you, give praise to God like its a backhanded slap. You're praise ends up talking about what you are doing by SELF, to keep self saved.
Its pathetic.

 

[Behold]

Of course you can forfeit a birth.

Go to your mother, and say...>"i am going to forfeit my birth....because i dont believe i was born, and i dont want you to be my mother".

She'll think you are crazy, and God will also when you keep telling it to Him, on this forum.
Thats a fact.

you need to THINK.
you are not thinking....you are just making loops in your head, Godsgrace.
Get off that ONE TRACK MIND.
SEE THE LIGHT that is God's Grace....asap

 

[Marymog]

Well I see you are not very educated about the gifts or the scriptures...besides not taking the time to read my posts with understanding and see what I actually wrote. It's not commanded to talk in tongues. That comes from the Spirit. It happens when it happens. The counsel of Paul is to not forbid it. Catholic meetings are not allowed to be interrupted by 'audience' contribution, even though Paul expressly tells us that is how to conduct a meeting of the saints. The Catholic leadership does not submit to the scriptures they are sure they are submitted to in complete obedience.

LOL.....Really? A person attending a catholic mass can not interrupt it by speaking in tongues?

May I refer you back to post #756 Ferris, which says: There are catholic churches that have members who speak in tongues. You should do some research before giving your opinion ;)

You are wearing me out kiddo....

 

[GodsGrace]

No, no. Just do a simple Google search of the different definitions of 'justified'. Why haven't you done that? I even posted it for you, I think it was you, but I even pointed out which definition Paul was using and which definition James was using.

This seems pretty good...

What Is the Difference between Justification and Sanctification?