What does it mean to be born again?

[stunnedbygrace]

I was thinking train wreck, but circus is also a good description.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It’s a sad day when you want to start drama and you just get laughed at.

 

[Brakelite]

Well…God is holy. You don’t mess with holiness. Think of all the strict and exacting rules for priests - what they must do and not do, the rules regarding their defilement or cleansing. Think about the stories of how the priest who went into the holy of holies had a rope tied around him in case he somehow mistepped and offended Gods holiness and was struck dead. All that strictness and rules and warnings wasn’t because God likes to kill people, it was so they WOULDNT be struck dead.

Epi has compared the man who argued with God, the one told to go to a street called Straight. That man argued with God. Why was HE not struck dead for that yet annais and saphira WERE struck dead? Lying is not okay but arguing with God is…?
Maybe Epi will kindly go over why that is again. :)

It's interesting what you and QT are chatting about. Does God kill? There is a division of opinion on that, with both sides having strong arguments. Here's what I see at present, but I'm not trying to be adamant over it...
When Adam sinned, the Bible says God came looking for him, but I think we need to consider that it may well have been Jesus, whose presence and glory was somehow subdued much in the same way as when he came as a baby to this earth. Yes, God is holy, and throughout the NT He warned people not to come too close like on Sinai. And in the sanctuary. It wasn't just a ritual cleansing the priests needed, they had to be genuinely clean from all sin through genuine repentance and faith in God's mercy. Precisely the same as us today...NT priesthood. It's not God deliberately going out if His way to destroy and kill, as QT said, that's Satan's handiwork. God is love, He is gracious and merciful. But sinners in the end will be killed when Jesus comes in His own glory and the glory of the Father and the angels to take His church home. Unrepentant sinners will by their obstinacy and pride, killed themselves, and again as QT mentioned in another post, will be hiding in caves and pleasing, not for mercy, but for death. They get what they wish for through natural catastrophe.
I think there are many instances in scripture where we automatically think the "destroying angel" is of God, but seldom consider the devil which to me would be far more scriptural, the devil being given freedom by God withdrawing Himself after the people of individual have played their last hand, like Ananias and Saphira. Deep subject, but I dunt think we can go too far wrong when we keep in mind who, and what God is as revealed in Jesus.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It's interesting what you and QT are chatting about. Does God kill? There is a division of opinion on that, with both sides having strong arguments. Here's what I see at present, but I'm not trying to be adamant over it...
When Adam sinned, the Bible says God came looking for him, but I think we need to consider that it may well have been Jesus, whose presence and glory was somehow subdued much in the same way as when he came as a baby to this earth. Yes, God is holy, and throughout the NT He warned people not to come too close like on Sinai. And in the sanctuary. It wasn't just a ritual cleansing the priests needed, they had to be genuinely clean from all sin through genuine repentance and faith in God's mercy. Precisely the same as us today...NT priesthood. It's not God deliberately going out if His way to destroy and kill, as QT said, that's Satan's handiwork. God is love, He is gracious and merciful. But sinners in the end will be killed when Jesus comes in His own glory and the glory of the Father and the angels to take His church home. Unrepentant sinners will by their obstinacy and pride, killed themselves, and again as QT mentioned in another post, will be hiding in caves and pleasing, not for mercy, but for death. They get what they wish for through natural catastrophe.
I think there are many instances in scripture where we automatically think the "destroying angel" is of God, but seldom consider the devil which to me would be far more scriptural, the devil being given freedom by God withdrawing Himself after the people of individual have played their last hand, like Ananias and Saphira. Deep subject, but I dunt think we can go too far wrong when we keep in mind who, and what God is as revealed in Jesus.

Hmm…I personally don’t see it. I’ve tried out many instances and I just don’t see it. Like…pharoah. The fame and fear of the Israelites spread by word of mouth that their God killed Pharoah and his armies but….it was really what Satan did that spread their fame…? I don’t see it.

 

[amigo de christo]

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[amigo de christo]

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[Brakelite]

Human righteousness....like Abel, Job, Noah. Enoch.....

Can't agree with you here Epi, "without Me ye can do nothing".
KJV Romans 10:1-4
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. (Paul is not referencing Noah, Job, Elijah etc etc)
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, (which you are claiming refers to Noah etc al) have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. (Could not possibly apply to Noah)
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. (This verse does not mean that the law has ended, but rather that Christ is the final goal, the final end of the journey called 'law', and who would argue that Abraham, Noah, Isaiah etc didn't know Christ?)

 

[Brakelite]

We all reveal ourselves. Not everyone sees that.

Much love!

Or everyone sees that revelation of self except us.

 

[marks]

Or everyone sees that revelation of self except us.

That is often the case.

I think we need to be watching our own words . . . other things we say . . . and not ignore what they are showing to us about ourselves.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

That is often the case.

I think we need to be watching our own words . . . other things we say . . . and not ignore what they are showing to us about ourselves.

Much love!

Then let our words point to CHRIST ALONE and all he did teach . cause if not we are full of pride and know it not .
Any man , woman or child who dares to oppose Christ and His teachings opposes GOD and His teachings .
I suggest we make sure our doctrine and words and works AGREE WITH THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST and the apostels in all things .
PRIDE is the root of destruction and the flesh is FULL OF IT .

 

[Brakelite]

Well gee @marks , it sure seems that way.

I hate to be hyperbolic, but it’s scary what some Christians say about themselves!

Maybe your mistaking false modesty with candid realism. As one draws closer to Jesus, the deeper the work of sanctification becomes. One becomes more aware of the depth of the roots of wickedness one has in his character, and surrenders more earnestly and hungers and thirsts for the promised righteousness. But not all Christians care about that. They presume Christ's sacrifice covers their sins and faults and they sense no need for a change in character. They think when Jesus comes, then everything will change and they will be perfected. As for now, Nuh, let's eat, drink and be merry.

 

[amigo de christo]

It’s a sad day when you want to start drama and you just get laughed at.

View attachment 30080

minus the fact that she is a woman and i a man . That looks like me after having to hear a all inclusive pope francis
and copeland supported praise a thon . KA BAM he is out cold folks , died of depression and boredom .

 

[amigo de christo]

Let all that has breath praise and thank the LORD

 

[Episkopos]

Can't agree with you here Epi, "without Me ye can do nothing".
KJV Romans 10:1-4
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. (Paul is not referencing Noah, Job, Elijah etc etc)
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, (which you are claiming refers to Noah etc al) have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. (Could not possibly apply to Noah)
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. (This verse does not mean that the law has ended, but rather that Christ is the final goal, the final end of the journey called 'law', and who would argue that Abraham, Noah, Isaiah etc didn't know Christ?)

We are talking about OT righteousness. Before Jesus came to bring the higher walk in Him, based on a new kind of faith (the faith OF Christ) there was a common righteousness among the meek and God fearing. This is something the Jews understand very well...but people who come to God based on the NT not so much...or not at all. 2 examples among many will suffice. Actually the first is repeated twice and the second 3 times.

David says...judge me according to my righteousness

Ps. 7:8 The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.

Ez. 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.

I realize that you may have to study on this for some years before you understand what I'm getting at...but the bible is the bible.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

how to be born again.. In Jesus own words

John 3:
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 1

Notice what Jesus said

1. Like moses lifted the serpent..- if we remember the story..

Numbers 21: 8 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.

so anyone who was bitten (a death sentence) would be healed and live, if only in faith they looked to the serpent (a type of Christ)

2. The son of man must be lifted up. so whoever looks to him (we all have a fatal disease and will die if we do not look to the true serpent or Christ)

3. Those who do (belief) will live

4 Those who do not (by unbelief) will die

the life God gives is called eternal life. it will never end..

he who believes is not condemned (born again)

he who does not believe is condemned already (still dead in their sin, need born again)


this is salvation 101 and how to be born again, if anyone tells you anything other than this. they are calling Jesus a lair.

 

[Lizbeth]

We are talking about OT righteousness. Before Jesus came to bring the higher walk in Him, based on a new kind of faith (the faith OF Christ) there was a common righteousness among the meek and God fearing. This is something the Jews understand very well...but people who come to God based on the NT not so much...or not at all. 2 examples among many will suffice. Actually the first is repeated twice and the second 3 times.

David says...judge me according to my righteousness

Os. 7:8 The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.

Ez. 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.

I realize that you may have to study on this for some years before you understand what I'm getting at...but the bible is the bible.

It was righteousness mixed with FAITH, not righteousness apart from faith. Abraham's faith wrought with his works, as with all the other righteous OT saints.

 

[Brakelite]

Hmm…I personally don’t see it. I’ve tried out many instances and I just don’t see it. Like…pharoah. The fame and fear of the Israelites spread by word of mouth that their God killed Pharoah and his armies but….it was really what Satan did that spread their fame…? I don’t see it.

Would we not all be destroyed by Satan if not for his explicit and personal protection? Does the scripture not say that if not for His mercy we would all likewise perish? Against whom does the whole armor of God work it's wonders? Who is trying to destroy us? Against whom is the wrath of the devil directed,? Why was Israel spared in Egypt? Because of protection. Why was Egypt not spared?
An insight into the heart of God can be found here...
2 Kings 1-23

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You didn't have to answer at all.

Neither do you have to stalk Epi. You don’t have to even enter his threads. But you do. You stalk him in every single thread he starts so you can rant about how he attacks and slanders you. Wash, rinse, repeat. Repeat. Repeat. It’s ridiculous. It’s more than obvious that you follow him everywhere to continue your grudge. This has gone on with you for years now. You are the king of passive aggression. The sole purpose of your entire life has become to try to make this one man look bad to others. It’s truly disgusting.
#brokenrecord

 

[Brakelite]

You can call yourself a sinner as much as you want. I on the other hand are not one of them as the world cherishes and wallows in.

There is a vast difference between "sinners of the gentiles" and those in Christ who through closeness to Him recognize their own deficiencies.
I hope I don't come across as if I'm using a confession of weakness and awareness of the necessity to cling to Christ (for without Him I am nothing) as some sort of badge of honor. Saying, "look how humble I am, I must be a great Christian". At the same time I am fully cognizant of the difference between who I am today compared to 50, even 10, 5,1 years ago. I pray that God continues to work in me His righteousness, and should I be found under my bus rather than in it, I am sure His grace will cover whatever imperfections in character that remain.

 

[APAK]

There is a vast difference between "sinners of the gentiles" and those in Christ who through closeness to Him recognize their own deficiencies.
I hope I don't come across as if I'm using a confession of weakness and awareness of the necessity to cling to Christ (for without Him I am nothing) as some sort of badge of honor. Saying, "look how humble I am, I must be a great Christian". At the same time I am fully cognizant of the difference between who I am today compared to 50, even 10, 5,1 years ago. I pray that God continues to work in me His righteousness, and should I be found under my bus rather than in it, I am sure His grace will cover whatever imperfections in character that remain.

and when you make those quick or tight turns old man with young passengers aboard, watch that you don't run over the curbs to many times...makes for a bumpy ride....