What does it mean to be born again?

[Episkopos]

Yes, in fact I do.

This leads into an easy example of each.

Romans 6:3-7 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

For myself, I'd call it teaching.

Then there is a parallel passage,

Galatians 2:20-21 KJV
20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21) I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

I would say this is Paul's testimony.

What he taught in general in Romans 6, he applied to himself in Galatians 2.

Much love!

OK..and yet in post #1857 you quoted this...

Philippians 3:4-11 KJV
4) Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5) Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6) Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.


Much love!

 

[marks]

Or maybe humor? or maybe sometimes humor and sometimes a mixture of humor and some added worn down patience at harassment (because we ARE still human) rather than good conversation?

I'm talking about the mocking and needling.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

So you read the Scriptures selectively, missing what @marks is driving at by quoting this passage.

Yes, yes, how we can get so stuck in Romans 6 that we neglect moving on through Romans 7 into Romans 8 where the victory lies. The point is not to get selective about the passages that we think justify our present condition.

 

[Waiting on him]

OK..and yet in post #1857 you quoted this...

Philippians 3:4-11 KJV
4) Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5) Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6) Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.


Much love!

Paul just said here that the flesh was his observation of the law.

 

[marks]

Everybody, including hypocrites agrees with wordings. What is lacking in Romans 6 is the power to walk as Jesus walked. That is reserved for Romans 8. Do you agree with the "wordings" of the whole bible? or just Romans 6?

I'm sorry, I'm not really understanding what you are saying here.

The Bible says things, right? So we believe those sayings, such as what is written here.

If we are baptized into Christ, this means we are baptized into His death. Having been baptized into His death, our old man is crucified, and we, being now dead, are freed from sin. We are to reckon it so, and not serve sin, having been freed from it.

You seem reluctant to address this directly. Is it that you don't think this is actually what is being taught in that passage?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I'm talking about the mocking and needling.

Much love!

Needling and taunting like…you false teacher, you cult leader, you speak the words of satan, you hypocritical false teacher, etc? Rather than good conversation?
And then another joining in and saying, (when mocking humor is employed), “sigh, he just can’t seem to help himself…

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you claiming to walk without sin? See what others here make of that. I see by your attitude that you walk by the power of the flesh...or...constant sin.

John said they can not live in sin.. Lets just take John at his word.

He also said he who lives in sin has never seen or known God.. lets again, take him at his word.

So you do not walk in sin, even though you have an attitude?

Only on one level The sin of the hypocrite is against God's holiness. And that kind of sin is worse than carnal sins. So then do you see the logic of Jesus that says...prostitutes and publicans will get into the kingdom before you? Do you see that with a new birth comes the possibility of a new level of sin? Do you fear the Lord? Do you embrace humility? So what is new is not always what NEW should be.

Have no Idea what your talking about here concerning me.. Sin is sin is sin.. The penalty of sin is death..; if we even stumble in one area. James said we are guilty..

Are you still guilty? or do you walk with no sin?

He will change you when you cry out to Him and stop relying on your own understanding.

I cried out to him 40 years ago. He has been helping me to understand since then..

When will you cry out to him?

 

[Waiting on him]

I'm sorry, I'm not really understanding what you are saying here.

The Bible says things, right? So we believe those sayings, such as what is written here.

If we are baptized into Christ, this means we are baptized into His death. Having been baptized into His death, our old man is crucified, and we, being now dead, are freed from sin. We are to reckon it so, and not serve sin, having been freed from it.

You seem reluctant to address this directly. Is it that you don't think this is actually what is being taught in that passage?

Much love!

Seems to me that Paul is saying that sin is the observance of the law.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Everybody, including hypocrites agrees with wordings. What is lacking in Romans 6 is the power to walk as Jesus walked. That is reserved for Romans 8. Do you agree with the "wordings" of the whole bible? or just Romans 6?

romans 6 is why we can walk in romans 6.

If we do not have romans 6. we have no hope

it is God who gives us our new self. by baptising us into Christ himself

 

[Keturah]

LUKE CHAPTER 18 KJV
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am NOT as other mmen are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 | fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other:

I see the blowing of ones own shofar as the Pharisee telling God " How worthy he was" as opposed to his counter fellow who wouldn't even dare to lift himself up B4 the Lord!

Which exhibited humility ?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, yes, how we can get so stuck in Romans 6 that we neglect moving on through Romans 7 into Romans 8 where the victory lies. The point is not to get selective about the passages that we think justify our present condition.

the victory is romans 6..

if is being put into christ.. it is our new birth.. the new birth you seem so bent on trying to discredit and misrepresent

 

[Johann]

Needling and taunting like…you false teacher, you cult leader, you speak the words of satan, you hypocritical false teacher, etc? Rather than good conversation?
And then another joining in and saying, (when mocking humor is employed), “sigh, he just can’t seem to help himself…

The rabbis have a saying--There is a time to laugh, and a time to weep--and now is not the time of laughing.

 

[marks]

It is not possible, (and even simple observation will show it), that “baptized into His death” means your flesh is dead. It is NOT dead and it still wars against the Spirit in you to hinder Gods work in your heart and mind.

This is where it's important to understand what the Bible means when it talks about death.

It's like, "and you, being dead in trespasses and sins", this doesn't mean you are lying lifeless on a slab somewhere. It's still dead - separated from God, a spiritual death. It's not that God doesn't exist or you don't exist. It doesn't mean you can't hear Him should He speak to you, or that He can't hear you. Romans speaks of this as when you were free from righteousness. It's still a kind of death.

And so being separated from your flesh doesn't mean it can't scream for you to do something. But it means you don't have to do it.

The Holy Spirit implements this in us by His training and chastening.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

romans 6 is why we can walk in romans 6.

If we do not have romans 6. we have no hope

it is God who gives us our new self. by baptising us into Christ himself

Praise the Lord for Romans 6!
J.

 

[Waiting on him]

This is where it's important to understand what the Bible means when it talks about death.

It's like, "and you, being dead in trespasses and sins", this doesn't mean you are lying lifeless on a slab somewhere. It's still dead - separated from God, a spiritual death. It's not that God doesn't exist or you don't exist. It doesn't mean you can't hear Him should He speak to you, or that He can't hear you. Romans speaks of this as when you were free from righteousness. It's still a kind of death.

And so being separated from your flesh doesn't mean it can't scream for you to do something. But it means you don't have to do it.

The Holy Spirit implements this in us by His training and chastening.

Much love!

Well of course, I am crucified yet I live.

 

[marks]

Yes, yes, how we can get so stuck in Romans 6 that we neglect moving on through Romans 7 into Romans 8 where the victory lies. The point is not to get selective about the passages that we think justify our present condition.

We don't need to get stuck anywhere, but we also don't skip over portions.

I think the point is that we come to understand the entire passage, shouldn't we? Including all of these chapters? And without understanding our baptism into Christ, will we have a true understanding of what follows?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Seems to me that Paul is saying that sin is the observance of the law.

That appears to be stated exactly backwards to me…

 

[marks]

Needling and taunting like…you false teacher, you cult leader, you speak the words of satan, you hypocritical false teacher, etc? Rather than good conversation?
And then another joining in and saying, (when mocking humor is employed), “sigh, he just can’t seem to help himself…

Yes, I should be more careful with expressing my opinions. Though the "sigh" part is you hyping it up. Making it appear worse still.

And my words were "mocking and needling", "taunting" is your word. And I'm pretty sure you know the rest of what I'm talking about.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

We don't need to get stuck anywhere, but we also don't skip over portions.

I think the point is that we come to understand the entire passage, shouldn't we? Including all of these chapters? And without understanding our baptism into Christ, will we have a true understanding of what follows?

Much love!

So this is where I lack understanding. Paul seems to speaking of what he tore down as his observation of Old Testament laws.

I never even heard of or observed these laws prior to Christianity so how does this have anything to do with me? Unless of course I’ve only been role playing?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Gaah…no, no, I can’t do the word games and twisty pretzel things. I can’t, I can’t!!