What does it mean to be born again?

[Johann]

Anyone who talks about picking up your cross, remaining faithful to the end, working out your salvation with fear and trembling, not thinking more highly of yourself than you should, taking the lowest seat, and other aspects of the gospel - they are gnashed at.

I don't know who "they" are but what you said here makes absolute sense, nothing wrong with this, we are to deny the ego eimi, and the taking up the cross, denying self and keep on following Jesus, three Imperatives in one verse!

Working out our salvation with fear and trembling is biblically correct.


Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
Jas 2:16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
Jas 2:17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Jas 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!
Jas 2:20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Jas 2:25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Do you think James was contradicting Paul?


Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

What other aspects are you talking about?

 

[APAK]

You argued that a few years ago. Maybe you’ve changed your mind on it, but we had a days long discussion on whether Jesus should be worshiped and then I just stopped reading your posts for the most part.

No I have not changed my mind at all. Now worshipping (in the strictest definition as compared with the Father) the man child and human man is another story ...you cannot link or assume the two go hand in hand..that's where you and other have assumed, wrongly I'm afraid...it is ntr a binary concept here....

 

[Episkopos]

Why is this a mystery? Episkopos teaches that you have add your part to finish off Jesus' part.

You are confusing me with Peter...have you read Peter? Try 2 Pet. 1 He says to add to one's faith. But you are misunderstood what I say. I say we go to God (you HATE that idea of going to God) for the FULL MEASURE of grace. Try to quote me correctly.

The crows here don't believe its possible to seek God and find Him...so they chalk it up to human effort. It takes FAITH to find God or attract Him to you. With all the religious outer man beliefs being paraded here..it is no wonder there is no understanding of faith, seeking, finding, and empowerment by grace. It's all make-believe to you guys.

We are saved exclusively by grace through faith, or something is to be added to that. So you tell me, which is this that you say? That epi says? Be brave!

Much love!

I just described what being saved by grace through faith is above. Real faith and real grace...not a religious formula you think saves you by reading it in a book. You are trying to be saved by assuming and presuming (add doctrine here).

 

[Johann]

Oh well, you know, you won’t get me to bite. wasnt that your response to a question I had? Why should I answer your questions and you not answer mine?
I gave the quotes of the conversation. I can’t read them FOR you, you know…

Suit yourself.
But I'm pretty sure she never said Jesus "was an assumed status"

 

[APAK]

LOL You crashed this thread already. Thanks! And the crows have taken over the thread. The monkeys are jumping from branch to branch. I'm not a zoo keeper...and crows feed on carrion.

If you have issues with the video or the general idea of what it means to get a sample of grace from God (that makes us the people of God just like the Jews) then post away. What I find offensive is the arrogance in thinking that somehow Jews are no good...rejected...and Gentiles are given an easier time of it. To whom much is given MORE is required. But the crows are squawking their way into the same end as the Israelites in the wilderness.

I think we are getting off topic here Epi....

The discussion of 'Jews' and who and which people they are before, later, and today, can be clear or clearer although many cloud the subject by prematurely injecting emotional outbursts into this subject and then nothing is learned. I can start another thread on this if you wish. I've done a few already on it.

And my question to you then Epi is this....which Jews are you referring to when you say I or others say they are no good? ..although I've never phrased it that way before as it is a useless phrase.

 

[marks]

Describing the ridiculous with metaphors can only be seen as ridicule if you have a part in the ridiculous. Otherwise it is seen as light-hearted if accurate commentary.

How crazy!

I'm just sitting here watching you ridicule others as though they are nothing more to you than barnyard animals. Now you want to defend it, all the more sad!

Why not recognize it, let it go, and move on?

But in our words we reveal ourselves. What you say doesn't tell us about others, it tells us about you.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

I don't know who "they" are but what you said here makes absolute sense, nothing wrong with this, we are to deny the ego eimi, and the taking up the cross, denying self and keep on following Jesus, three Imperatives in one verse!

Working out our salvation with fear and trembling is biblically correct.

Your mentors see that as works salvation.

Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
Jas 2:16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
Jas 2:17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Jas 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!
Jas 2:20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Jas 2:25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Do you think James was contradicting Paul?


Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

What other aspects are you talking about?

More works salvation...according to your mentors. How you have fallen from greasy grace.

 

[Episkopos]

I think we are getting off topic here Epi....

The discussion of 'Jews' and who and which people they are before, later, and today, can be clear or clearer although many cloud the subject by prematurely injecting emotional outbursts into this subject and then nothing is learned. I can start another thread on this if you wish. I've done a few already on it.

And my question to you then Epi is this....which Jews are you referring to when you say I or others say they are no good? ..although I've never phrased it that way before as it is a useless phrase.

Those who claim that they are not held to the very same standard as the Jews...actually a higher standard...but the same in scale.

Paul says that many believers in Jesus will be cut off...just like the Jews in the wilderness. We are to fear. But I see no fear among those who justify themselves for their religious posturings...claiming to be as righteous as God IN their sins.

The Pharisees of today are so unrighteous that even the original Pharisees would blush.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I would think it is crucial that you know you have righteousness today and not in some elusive distant future when you somehow gain the knowledge/experience (sounds like a take on Gnosticism) full about of grace possible and walk as an elitist in the higher calling, the highest walk in Christ only know to a very few......do you truly believe all this...?

Make no mistake, a righteous man does what is right. If a man does what is right in Gods eyes, he is righteous.
The myth that a man can be righteous and have righteousness but not actually DO right is insanity.
Arguing that you are righteous even when you don’t do what is right proves that you DONT have the righteousness of Christ. To go a step further and say that a man who DOES do what is right (even as you don’t) will burn in the lake while you will be with God is to step over the line into iniquity.

 

[Episkopos]

I'm just sitting here watching you ridicule others as though they are nothing more to you than barnyard animals. Now you want to defend it, all the more sad!

Why not recognize it, let it go, and move on?

But in our words we reveal ourselves. What you say doesn't tell us about others, it tells us about you.

Much love!

Technically, monkeys aren't barnyard animals. And crows...not really either. Although, I'm hearing more crowing here...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Suit yourself.
But I'm pretty sure she never said Jesus "was an assumed status"

She did. She said, “it is both.” I reposted the conversation. I can’t read it FOR you.

 

[marks]

(you HATE that idea of going to God)

Do you believe you have the right and ability to say what is in my heart? To judge others as you do?

I asked you before, you didn't respond. Haven't you said that you've been "visited" by God, and now you are His "visitation" of others? So that you do in fact believe you are to judge others, approving or rejecting? Do you believe this?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Solomon distilled it to a single word. Vanity. Emptiness.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

More works salvation...according to your mentors. How you have fallen from greasy grace.

Don't speak on her behalf, I'm pretty sure she does not suffer from cognitive dissonance, you, however, need to step away and I have this "feeling" you won't be long here.

 

[Episkopos]

Do you believe you have the right and ability to say what is in my heart? To judge others as you do?

I watch what people say and do. I have always exhorted people to go to God...and you have always resisted me...claiming you didn't have to. I know what's in your head.

I asked you before, you didn't respond. Haven't you said that you've been "visited" by God, and now you are His "visitation" of others? So that you do in fact believe you are to judge others, approving or rejecting? Do you believe this?

Much love!

I have enough discernment to see what is going on. I play a musical instrument. I can help those who are learning the instrument. I have a depth of experience with the living God...that only disciples find helpful. If not for the internet...I would never cast my pearls before... (barnyard animals)

 

[marks]

I watch what people say and do. I have always exhorted people to go to God...and you have always resisted me...claiming you didn't have to. I know what's in your head.

I have enough discernment to see what is going on. I play a musical instrument. I can help those who are learning the instrument. I have a depth of experience with the living God...that only disciples find helpful. If not for the internet...I would never cast my pearls before... (barnyard animals)

I wasn't really expecting honesty, and I'm not surprised to see more deflection.

Not to worry, I won't press you.

Much love!

 

[marks]

.claiming you didn't have to.

And that is a flat out lie.

Take a clue!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Don't speak on her behalf, I'm pretty sure she does not suffer from cognitive dissonance, you, however, need to step away and I have this "feeling" you won't be long here.

He’s allowed to respond to any post he wants to. Especially in his own thread. You also have the right to respond to any post you want to. (Or to not respond, even if a question is directed to you personally.) That’s the third time I’ve seen you basically tell this man to shut up in one of his own threads.

 

[Episkopos]

And that is a flat out lie.

Take a clue!

Really> Are you saying you need to go to God for the full measure of grace?

 

[Johann]

And that is a flat out lie.

Take a clue!

Both of them are lying, leave them be brother.