What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Johann]

You assume I was directing that at you. It was made with the intent to include everyone.

Correct, it's your prerogative, as a Staff member, you can include/exclude anyone.
When you wake up in a bad mood, it's "D day" for Johann, so far you don't impress me @Heart2Soul, iron sharpens iron, yes?

 

[RLT63]

And he would be correct.....
In Greek "the Word" was "theos" not "ho theos".

The only way to distinguish one "god" from another in the Greek language was to call specific gods by name...the Greeks had plenty of them, but when it came to the (then) nameless God of the Jews, they had no way to distinguish him from other "mighty ones" like Jesus Christ, known for his powerful works, except by use of the definite article..."ho" (the).

"Theos" in Greek means...."a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities".....so it was not a word that applied only to Yahweh, the God whose name the Jews refuse to utter.

Since Jesus was not Almighty God they did not use the definite article when referring to him, but it was understood that he was "a god". The word means also a "divinity"...one who is from God, or who is "God-like" in character.

The title "Logos" literally means...

"of speech

1. a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
   
   
2. what someone has said
   1. a word
   2. the sayings of God" (Strongs)

So the one who spoke God's words to others is who "the Word" (Logos) was, and he was "with ho theos" (with the God) and he was "divine" or in the understanding of the Greek speaking Jews..."a god-like" one.

John 1:1 is no proof text for the trinity and never was. John never spoke of Jesus as Almighty God, and neither did any of the other apostles.
Their "one" God was the God of the Jews..... "the Father" of Jesus Christ and his apostles (1 Corinthians 8:5-6) and in the Lord's prayer Jesus included us as well....
"OUR Father who art in heaven".

John 1:1 from the Mounce Interlinear...
"In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros · ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos."

That little word "ho" (the) is left untranslated in English only once in that verse.....and its the one that counts the most.
Trinitarian bias at work again.
"The Word" was "with the God" but the Word was not "the God" he was "a god"....'a divine god-like one'. No one questions Christ's divinity, but we can question his status as a deity....something he never once claimed.

And in answer to your previous question....."So Adam and Eve were unforgiven? I would ask if they are in Hell but have no idea what you believe about the afterlife"....Adam and his wife had no belief in an afterlife because God never gave them that option. The only options they had were *life or death*.....the same options given to Israel, who also had no belief in life after death. (Deuteronomy 30:19) The Bible does not teach that we have an immortal soul to go anywhere. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) The dead are dead. Death is the opposite of life.

Christendom has brainwashed people for centuries with these false doctrines....but no one seems to notice. They have the trinity, and life after death in heaven or hell....and these have been around so long that no one is actually aware of where they came from. None of them come from the God of the Bible. They come from this world's "god" (theos), and all but "few" have been taken in by him. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4; Matthew 7:13-14)

So every version of the Bible got it wrong but you and The New World translation have it right?

 

[Johann]

Bold is mine. The entire quote is remarkable but I highlighted Gregory’s words.

God is Plural: The Possibility of a Jewish Understanding of the Trinity Through Language
The name Elohim
It is generally agreed that Elohim is a plural noun having the masculine plural ending “im.” Elohim is used to describe God in Genesis 1:1: “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” It is also used in Exodus 20:3: “You shall have no other gods [Elohim] before me,” and in Deuteronomy 13:2: “Let us go after other gods [Elohim].” Elohim is the word that is used of the one true God as well as for the many false gods. While the use of the plural Elohim does not prove a Tri-unity, it certainly opens the door to a doctrine of plurality in the Godhead.

Most Hebrew scholars recognize that the word Elohim, as it stands by itself, is a plural noun. But they deny that it allows for any plurality in the Godhead whatsoever, arguing that when “Elohim” is used of the true God, it is followed by a singular verb; when it is used of false gods, it is followed by a plural verb:

But, in fact, the verb used in the opening verse of Genesis is “bara” which means “he created”—singular. One need not be too profound a student of Hebrew to understand that the opening verse of Genesis clearly speaks of a singular God. (Greenberg)

The point made, of course, is true because the Bible does teach that God is only one God, and therefore, the general pattern is to have the plural noun followed by the singular verb when it speaks of the one true God. However, there are places where the word is used of the true God and yet is followed by a plural verb:

I sincerely hope you are familiar with Hebrew grammar...

HaShema - Deut. 6:4. Hear, O Israel: Jehovah (singular) our Gods (plural) [is] a unioned/unified Jehovah (singular).

Genesis 20:13: “And when God [Elohim] caused me to wander [literally: “They” caused me to wander] from my father's house.

Genesis 35:7: “There God [Elohim] had revealed himself to him.” [Literally: “They” appeared unto him.]

2 Samuel 7:23: “God [Elohim] went.”" [Literally: “They” went.]

Psalm 58:11: “Surely there is a God [Elohim] who judges.” [Literally: “They” judge.]

What does this mean for our understanding of the oneness of God?


Plural pronouns for God
When God speaks of Himself, He uses the plural pronoun. In Genesis 1:26: “Then God [Elohim] said, ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.’ He could hardly have made reference to angels since man was created in the image of God and not of angels. The Midrash Rabbah on Genesis recognizes the weight of this passage:

Rabbi Samuel Bar Hanman in the name of Rabbi Jonathan said, that at the time when Moses wrote the Torah, writing a portion of it daily, when he came to this verse which says, “And Elohim said, let us make man in our image after our likeness,” Moses said, “Master of the universe, why do you give herewith an excuse to the sectarians (who believe in the Tri-unity of God)?” God answered Moses, “You write and whoever wants to err, let him err.”

Is the Trinity in the Hebrew Scriptures?

Did Christians invent the "Trinity?"

 

[Johann]

God is Plural: The Possibility of a Jewish Understanding of the Trinity Through Language
The name Elohim
It is generally agreed that Elohim is a plural noun having the masculine plural ending “im.” Elohim is used to describe God in Genesis 1:1: “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” It is also used in Exodus 20:3: “You shall have no other gods [Elohim] before me,” and in Deuteronomy 13:2: “Let us go after other gods [Elohim].” Elohim is the word that is used of the one true God as well as for the many false gods. While the use of the plural Elohim does not prove a Tri-unity, it certainly opens the door to a doctrine of plurality in the Godhead.

Most Hebrew scholars recognize that the word Elohim, as it stands by itself, is a plural noun. But they deny that it allows for any plurality in the Godhead whatsoever, arguing that when “Elohim” is used of the true God, it is followed by a singular verb; when it is used of false gods, it is followed by a plural verb:

But, in fact, the verb used in the opening verse of Genesis is “bara” which means “he created”—singular. One need not be too profound a student of Hebrew to understand that the opening verse of Genesis clearly speaks of a singular God. (Greenberg)

The point made, of course, is true because the Bible does teach that God is only one God, and therefore, the general pattern is to have the plural noun followed by the singular verb when it speaks of the one true God. However, there are places where the word is used of the true God and yet is followed by a plural verb:

Genesis 20:13: “And when God [Elohim] caused me to wander [literally: “They” caused me to wander] from my father's house.

Genesis 35:7: “There God [Elohim] had revealed himself to him.” [Literally: “They” appeared unto him.]

2 Samuel 7:23: “God [Elohim] went.”" [Literally: “They” went.]

Psalm 58:11: “Surely there is a God [Elohim] who judges.” [Literally: “They” judge.]

What does this mean for our understanding of the oneness of God?


Plural pronouns for God
When God speaks of Himself, He uses the plural pronoun. In Genesis 1:26: “Then God [Elohim] said, ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.’ He could hardly have made reference to angels since man was created in the image of God and not of angels. The Midrash Rabbah on Genesis recognizes the weight of this passage:

Rabbi Samuel Bar Hanman in the name of Rabbi Jonathan said, that at the time when Moses wrote the Torah, writing a portion of it daily, when he came to this verse which says, “And Elohim said, let us make man in our image after our likeness,” Moses said, “Master of the universe, why do you give herewith an excuse to the sectarians (who believe in the Tri-unity of God)?” God answered Moses, “You write and whoever wants to err, let him err.”

Is the Trinity in the Hebrew Scriptures?

Did Christians invent the "Trinity?"

Refute Benjamin Sommer

 

[Johann]

Geez...ease up man....it's a discussion.

Angry with me @Heart2Soul? Am I pressing your button? Lol!

 

[Aunty Jane]

I would disagree. Even the Pharisees understood that when Jesus said, "before Abraham was, I AM, He was claiming to be the God of the burning bush.

According to my studies, God never said "I Am" was his name in Exodus 3:14.

At Exodus 3:14-15, when Moses asked God for his name, from the Jewish Tanakh it reads....
"God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:


15And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר" (The Complete Jewish Bible)

Yahweh does not only mean "I AM" in John 8:58 because it has no connection whatsoever with Exodus 3 14-15.

Strongs renders "I Am" in John 8:58 as..."to be, to exist, to happen, to be present". So which is the correct rendering of that verse?
Strongs also says of εἰμί eimí; "the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic):—am, have been, × it is I, was." So not just one meaning.

God's name was not a statement about his existence because he was the God of their forefathers, so they knew who he was.
His name means "I will be what I will be" and it was a statement about his intentions towards his people, once freed from Egyptian slavery.
"The Lord God is "יְהֹוָ֞ה"....Yahweh. This was a name that was to be held in reverence for all their generations, but they chose to refrain from uttering it. They never had God's sanction or command to do that.

So in answering a question about the past, Jesus answered in the past tense....."Before Abraham was born, I have been" or "I was".

This is a scripturally bogus argument I'm afraid.

 

[RLT63]

And he would be correct.....
In Greek "the Word" was "theos" not "ho theos".

The only way to distinguish one "god" from another in the Greek language was to call specific gods by name...the Greeks had plenty of them, but when it came to the (then) nameless God of the Jews, they had no way to distinguish him from other "mighty ones" like Jesus Christ, known for his powerful works, except by use of the definite article..."ho" (the).

"Theos" in Greek means...."a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities".....so it was not a word that applied only to Yahweh, the God whose name the Jews refuse to utter.

Since Jesus was not Almighty God they did not use the definite article when referring to him, but it was understood that he was "a god". The word means also a "divinity"...one who is from God, or who is "God-like" in character.

The title "Logos" literally means...

"of speech

1. a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
   
   
2. what someone has said
   1. a word
   2. the sayings of God" (Strongs)

So the one who spoke God's words to others is who "the Word" (Logos) was, and he was "with ho theos" (with the God) and he was "divine" or in the understanding of the Greek speaking Jews..."a god-like" one.

John 1:1 is no proof text for the trinity and never was. John never spoke of Jesus as Almighty God, and neither did any of the other apostles.
Their "one" God was the God of the Jews..... "the Father" of Jesus Christ and his apostles (1 Corinthians 8:5-6) and in the Lord's prayer Jesus included us as well....
"OUR Father who art in heaven".

John 1:1 from the Mounce Interlinear...
"In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros · ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos."

That little word "ho" (the) is left untranslated in English only once in that verse.....and its the one that counts the most.
Trinitarian bias at work again.
"The Word" was "with the God" but the Word was not "the God" he was "a god"....'a divine god-like one'. No one questions Christ's divinity, but we can question his status as a deity....something he never once claimed.

And in answer to your previous question....."So Adam and Eve were unforgiven? I would ask if they are in Hell but have no idea what you believe about the afterlife"....Adam and his wife had no belief in an afterlife because God never gave them that option. The only options they had were *life or death*.....the same options given to Israel, who also had no belief in life after death. (Deuteronomy 30:19) The Bible does not teach that we have an immortal soul to go anywhere. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) The dead are dead. Death is the opposite of life.

Christendom has brainwashed people for centuries with these false doctrines....but no one seems to notice. They have the trinity, and life after death in heaven or hell....and these have been around so long that no one is actually aware of where they came from. None of them come from the God of the Bible. They come from this world's "god" (theos), and all but "few" have been taken in by him. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4; Matthew 7:13-14)

You make Jesus a liar. He told us about Lazarus and the rich man in the afterlife and he told the thief on the cross he would be in paradise with him. Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So every version of the Bible got it wrong but you and The New World translation have it right?

LOL....every version of the Bible in English was done by trinitarians...what do you think?

 

[RLT63]

LOL....every version of the Bible in English was done by trinitarians...what do you think?

Sounds like a conspiracy theory. Westcott and Hort didn't believe in the deity of Christ. The modern versions are based on the critical text that mostly agrees with Westcott and Hort's version. Novum Testamentum Graece - Wikipedia

 

[Matthias]

You are muted, and will stay muted.

What?

 

[Matthias]

God is Plural: The Possibility of a Jewish Understanding of the Trinity Through Language
The name Elohim
It is generally agreed that Elohim is a plural noun having the masculine plural ending “im.” Elohim is used to describe God in Genesis 1:1: “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” It is also used in Exodus 20:3: “You shall have no other gods [Elohim] before me,” and in Deuteronomy 13:2: “Let us go after other gods [Elohim].” Elohim is the word that is used of the one true God as well as for the many false gods. While the use of the plural Elohim does not prove a Tri-unity, it certainly opens the door to a doctrine of plurality in the Godhead.

Most Hebrew scholars recognize that the word Elohim, as it stands by itself, is a plural noun. But they deny that it allows for any plurality in the Godhead whatsoever, arguing that when “Elohim” is used of the true God, it is followed by a singular verb; when it is used of false gods, it is followed by a plural verb:

But, in fact, the verb used in the opening verse of Genesis is “bara” which means “he created”—singular. One need not be too profound a student of Hebrew to understand that the opening verse of Genesis clearly speaks of a singular God. (Greenberg)

The point made, of course, is true because the Bible does teach that God is only one God, and therefore, the general pattern is to have the plural noun followed by the singular verb when it speaks of the one true God. However, there are places where the word is used of the true God and yet is followed by a plural verb:

I sincerely hope you are familiar with Hebrew grammar...

HaShema - Deut. 6:4. Hear, O Israel: Jehovah (singular) our Gods (plural) [is] a unioned/unified Jehovah (singular).

Genesis 20:13: “And when God [Elohim] caused me to wander [literally: “They” caused me to wander] from my father's house.

Genesis 35:7: “There God [Elohim] had revealed himself to him.” [Literally: “They” appeared unto him.]

2 Samuel 7:23: “God [Elohim] went.”" [Literally: “They” went.]

Psalm 58:11: “Surely there is a God [Elohim] who judges.” [Literally: “They” judge.]

What does this mean for our understanding of the oneness of God?


Plural pronouns for God
When God speaks of Himself, He uses the plural pronoun. In Genesis 1:26: “Then God [Elohim] said, ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.’ He could hardly have made reference to angels since man was created in the image of God and not of angels. The Midrash Rabbah on Genesis recognizes the weight of this passage:

Rabbi Samuel Bar Hanman in the name of Rabbi Jonathan said, that at the time when Moses wrote the Torah, writing a portion of it daily, when he came to this verse which says, “And Elohim said, let us make man in our image after our likeness,” Moses said, “Master of the universe, why do you give herewith an excuse to the sectarians (who believe in the Tri-unity of God)?” God answered Moses, “You write and whoever wants to err, let him err.”

Is the Trinity in the Hebrew Scriptures?

Did Christians invent the "Trinity?"

God is plural? If so, then translate elohim as plural: gods.

The Messiah’s God isn’t plural. The Messiah’s elohim is singular: God.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You make Jesus a liar. He told us about Lazarus and the rich man in the afterlife and he told the thief on the cross he would be in paradise with him. Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Oh dear...I really am tired of people who do no real study.

The rich man and Lazarus is a parable, not a true story.....taken literally, it is ridiculous. It is surrounded by other parables....Jesus taught that way. (Matthew 13:34)

The thief was promised "paradise" not heaven. Was he with Jesus that day? He could not have been because Jesus said that he would 'be in the heart of the earth for three days and nights' before God raised him from the dead. To insist that the thief was with Jesus that day in heaven is to make Christ a liar.

And Paul was speaking as one of the elect...these only have the "heavenly calling" (Hebrews 3:1) and these alone will experience a spiritual resurrection to heaven....(Revelation 20:6) the general resurrection of the dead takes place later when Jesus says that he will call all the dead from their graves, back to life on earth, (John 5:28-29) where God put humans in the first place. The whole purpose of the Kingdom is the restoration of God's first purpose. Earth was never a training ground for heaven...it was designed to be man's permanent home.

Revelation 21:2-4 confirms this.
"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

Sounds like a conspiracy theory.

The devil is a master of conspiracies....look what he has managed to accomplish in Christendom.....its a divided, dying mess.

 

[Brakelite]

I like this...

Let me ask this-- if YOU sleep in your garage each night-- would you become a car? "God" was in Jesus... God did not become a man.

He had a Son who became a man. God said His Son is God. God begotten. You don't have to understand it. You don't have to explain it. You don't have to understand the mechanics of how God had a Son... But He did. And scripture is clear that He sent this Son to die. He couldn't die unless He became a mortal creature... Man. That's the gospel.

 

[RLT63]

Oh dear...I really am tired of people who do no real study.

The rich man and Lazarus is a parable, not a true story.....taken literally, it is ridiculous. It is surrounded by other parables....Jesus taught that way. (Matthew 13:34)

The thief was promised "paradise" not heaven. Was he with Jesus that day? He could not have been because Jesus said that he would 'be in the heart of the earth for three days and nights' before God raised him from the dead. To insist that the thief was with Jesus that day in heaven is to make Christ a liar.

And Paul was speaking as one of the elect...these only have the "heavenly calling" (Hebrews 3:1) and these alone will experience a spiritual resurrection to heaven....(Revelation 20:6) the general resurrection of the dead takes place later when Jesus says that he will call all the dead from their graves, back to life on earth, (John 5:28-29) where God put humans in the first place. The whole purpose of the Kingdom is the restoration of God's first purpose. Earth was never a training ground for heaven...it was designed to be man's permanent home.

Revelation 21:2-4 confirms this.
"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”


The devil is a master of conspiracies....look what he has managed to accomplish in Christendom.....its a divided, dying mess.

JW doctrine. I really am tired of people who spout it as though it is gospel.

 

[Aunty Jane]

JW doctrine.

No mate...just plain scripture....

 

[RLT63]

No mate...just plain scripture....

Just plain error. In no parable does Jesus ever name people. And your other views- Jehovah's Witnesses and salvation - Wikipedia.

 

[Brakelite]

Typical. Appeal to Superman. You figure it out. You figure out how I am right! What a response. What a compelling argument.

He asked for scripture to back up my beliefs. I told him he should read Philippians 2. He said Nuh, no need to. On that basis I figured he must be relying on his own infinite wisdom to understand the nature of God, and suggested he read the rest of scripture as well in order to understand and get to know Jesus. Maybe you need to as well?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Just plain error. In no parable does Jesus ever name people.

Except in this one. If you take it literally, then 'heaven and hell' are within speaking distance to one another.....and a drop of water on a man's finger will cool his tongue in a burning fire.....if you want to believe its a true account, you can, but its all symbolisms.

Its an illustration about the Pharisees and the "lost sheep" that they neglected and treated like dirt. The two swapped places with the Pharisees losing their place in Abraham's bosom (a position of favor with God) and the poor beggar gained it. The torment that the Pharisees endured was the condemnation by Jesus on account of their wicked self righteousness (read Matthew 23) and their attitude towards the ones they were suppose to shepherd. When Jesus told his parable about the "lost sheep" he conveyed God's deep love and concern for the poor and lowly ones.....the Pharisees were out to serve themselves favoring the rich.

 

[Brakelite]

According to my studies, God never said "I Am" was his name in Exodus 3:14.

At Exodus 3:14-15, when Moses asked God for his name, from the Jewish Tanakh it reads....
"God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:


15And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר" (The Complete Jewish Bible)

Yahweh does not only mean "I AM" in John 8:58 because it has no connection whatsoever with Exodus 3 14-15.

Strongs renders "I Am" in John 8:58 as..."to be, to exist, to happen, to be present". So which is the correct rendering of that verse?
Strongs also says of εἰμί eimí; "the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic):—am, have been, × it is I, was." So not just one meaning.

God's name was not a statement about his existence because he was the God of their forefathers, so they knew who he was.
His name means "I will be what I will be" and it was a statement about his intentions towards his people, once freed from Egyptian slavery.
"The Lord God is "יְהֹוָ֞ה"....Yahweh. This was a name that was to be held in reverence for all their generations, but they chose to refrain from uttering it. They never had God's sanction or command to do that.

So in answering a question about the past, Jesus answered in the past tense....."Before Abraham was born, I have been" or "I was".

This is a scripturally bogus argument I'm afraid.

Jesus said no-one has seen God at any time. Mortal man cannot look upon God and live. That is why after the fall, there was needed a Mediator. Thus... The Son. The word of God. Intercessor. Mediator. Priest.
God's spokesman. He walked and talked with Adam and Eve. With Manoah. Moses. But even the Son had to shield man from His glory, and even His back parts affected Moses such that he had to wear a veil.
When Moses asked Him, show me Your glory, what was the response? It was revealed to Moses the name of the one He was speaking to.
KJV Exodus 34:6-8
6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

Who was this? The Father upon whom none could look and live? Or God's Son, the Mediator of the covenant?

 

[Johann]

God is plural? If so, then translate elohim as plural: gods.

The Messiah’s God isn’t plural. The Messiah’s elohim is singular: God.

God is plural? If so, then translate elohim as plural: gods.

I am showing here, from ancient rabbinical writings, that the doctrine of the Trinity did not start with Christianity...

YHVH
The malach of YHVH
The Ruach of YHVH

Very obvious you did not listen to the video clip.