Were Jesus's brothers born of another woman?

[Matthias]

Well, Tim Staples agrees that Jesus is not a human PERSON.

Tim Staples faithfully reported the official teaching of the Catholic Church.

But we all agree that He was a human MAN.

The simple point is that a human person is not a human man in your theology.

“Jesus is not a human person” should be preached from every trinitarian pulpit. I preached it from my non-trinitarian pulpit.

 

[GodsGrace]

I haven’t conflated anything. I made the statement that the Catholic Church teaches that Jesus is not a human person and then used multiple Catholic sources to document that what I asserted was true.

My own belief and teaching (Jewish monotheism) is that Jesus is a human person.

But Jesus WAS NOT a human PERSON.

He was a human MAN.

Here's craig:

 

[Matthias]

Please post the source.
Craig tells me who said it.
It doesn't give me a SOURCE from which it's derived.

I respect Craig....so please post the source.

I linked the article for your benefit (and for the benefit of others) in my post.

Dr. Craig himself said it.

 

[Matthias]

But Jesus WAS NOT a human PERSON.

He was a human MAN.

Here's craig:

Excellent.

Once again, the Catholic Church and Protestant churches (represented by Dr. Craig) teach that Jesus is not a human person.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Matthias

Here's more:

 

[GodsGrace]

Excellent.

Once again, the Catholic Church and Protestant churches (represented by Dr. Craig) teach that Jesus is not a human person.

Enough of this Matthias.
Must leave.

There's enough posted for anyone interested in learning the difference between
a human man and a human PERSON.

 

[Matthias]

Sorry Mathias....
The CC DOES NOT teach that Jesus was not a human person.

Now you have seen and confirmed for yourself that the Catholic Church teaches that Jesus is not a human person. I hope that others will do the same.

I’m not asking for an apology but what I said is the truth.

 

[GodsGrace]

Now you have seen and confirmed for yourself that the Catholic Church teaches that Jesus is not a human person.

What I said is the truth.

UFFA!

You can't be serious!

It is CORRECTLY taught that Jesus is not a human PERSON
but IS a human MAN.

Learn the difference between what MAN means and what PERSON means.
I mean everybody reading along.


'nuff said.

 

[Matthias]

It is CORRECTLY taught that Jesus is not a human PERSON
but IS a human MAN.

Thanks. @asoul

 

[Matthias]

Philip Schaff explains why it’s impossible for Jesus to be a human person in his History of the Christian Church. Every Protestant should know it.

I don’t know if you will read a Protestant source or not @asoul but what Dr. Schaff says here (in the link provided) is fully compatible with the teaching of the Catholic Church. (See §142. The Orthodox Christology - Analysis and Criticism)

HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH*

 

[Matthias]

“Jesus Christ, true man, ‘like us in everything except sin’” - Pope John Paul II

Like Us in Everything Except Sin | EWTN

EWTN is a global, Catholic Television, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News Network that provides catholic programming and news coverage from around the world.

www.ewtn.com

EWTN, as you probably know, is a Roman Catholic source. I watch it from time to time on television, perhaps you do too. (I particularly enjoy watching programs featuring Father Mitch Pacwa.)

Do you agree with the statement made by Pope John Paul II @asoul? Please let me know if you don’t.

Here’s what I would like for you to do: read the following statement aloud to yourself -

”Jesus Christ, true man“ - not a human person (which is the teaching of the Catholic Church) - “like us in everything except sin.“*

Repeat it a couple of times, if you will. Then stand in front of a mirror and watch yourself - look at yourself eye to eye - as you repeat it.

If you can do that with a clear conscience then you are dedicated to the Roman Catholic proposition that Jesus of Nazareth is true man who is not a human person and, imo, you are where you ought to be - in the birthplace of that teaching.

Jesus of Nazareth is true man who is not a human person.

Meditate on it. That is the Catholic faith; your faith. Share it with everyone.

***

* An alternative statement you could make in the mirror:

“I am a human man who is a human person. Jesus of Nazareth is a human man who is not a human person and is like me in everything except sin.”

 

[BreadOfLife]

It has to be this way for you doesn't it? Confirmation bias demands it!
Out of interest, if the Lord told you, you were wrong could you accept it and what would be the consequences of accepting his Word?
F2F

It’s not about ME being wrong. You’re accusing His Church of being wrong.
If Jesus’s Church is wrong – then HE is wrong.

Jesus guaranteed that the gates of Hell would NOY prevail against His Church (Matt. 16:18).
- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- Jesus told the leaders of His Church that WHATEVER they bound or loosed on earth would ALSO be bound and loosed in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).
- Jesus said that HE is the Light of the World (John 8:12). He also said that His Church is the Light of the world (Matt. 5:14).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).

 

[face2face]

It’s not about ME being wrong. You’re accusing His Church of being wrong.
If Jesus’s Church is wrong – then HE is wrong.

Jesus guaranteed that the gates of Hell would NOY prevail against His Church (Matt. 16:18).
- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- Jesus told the leaders of His Church that WHATEVER they bound or loosed on earth would ALSO be bound and loosed in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).
- Jesus said that HE is the Light of the World (John 8:12). He also said that His Church is the Light of the world (Matt. 5:14).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).

And all of these points do not apply to the RCC. It's system will be ground to dust in the end never to be remembered.
F2F

 

[GodsGrace]

I don’t know if you will read a Protestant source or not @asoul but what Dr. Schaff says here (in the link provided) is fully compatible with the teaching of the Catholic Church. (See §142. The Orthodox Christology - Analysis and Criticism)

HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH*

I read some of the above and it's beyond what I'm able to comprehend.
I do understand that if we say that Jesus was a Person what we're doing is creating another Person thus making the Trinity into 4 Persons instead of three.
That's all I wanted to point out.

 

[Matthias]

I read some of the above and it's beyond what I'm able to comprehend.

Using Greek philosophical concepts (which scripture doesn’t do) produced a complicated theology that is difficult to comprehend. This article by Tony Arsenal, explaining the terminology, might help.

Anhypostasis, Enhypostasis, and Bears… Oh My

Today, I had a brief discussion with someone who had questions about the distinction between Anhypostasis, Enhypostasis, and how the terms function in Christology. I thought it would be beneficial …

orthopathos.wordpress.com

I do understand that if we say that Jesus was a Person what we're doing is creating another Person thus making the Trinity into 4 Persons instead of three.
That's all I wanted to point out.

You are doing a good service to your readers with that simple observation.

A four-person Trinity, and one of them a human person, is impossible. Jesus of Nazareth cannot be a human person in that theological system.

Hold on to that and you‘ll be able to help people who are struggling to reconcile what they are reading in scripture with what trinitarian theology requires them to believe.

I don’t think we can say any more than that without violating the board policy.

 

[Lambano]

”Jesus Christ, true man“ - not a human person (which is the teaching of the Catholic Church) - “like us in everything except sin.“*

Curious. Does that mean that "sin" is an inherent property of the substance of Humanity? Or is Sin with a capital "S" a "substance" in itself which contaminates the "Form" of a man? Paul's use of "Sin" in Romans 7-8 and elsewhere would lead me to believe he believed Sin had it's own existence.

In regard to "not a human person", and going back to the definition of "Person", which test of Human Personhood would Jesus Christ fail? The test of human substance, the test of individuality, or the test of rationality?

 

[Lambano]

Using Greek philosophical concepts (which scripture doesn’t do) produced a complicated theology that is difficult to comprehend.

Always remember, the historical reason this was done was as a possible way to resolve the inherent conflicts between the Biblical claims of Christ's pre-existence and having some of the inherent properties and prerogatives belonging to God as expressed in John 1:1-14, Colossians 1:15-19 and 2:9-10, Philippians 2:6-11, and elsewhere with the demands of classical Jewish monotheism expressed succinctly in Deuteronomy 6:4.

 

[GodsGrace]

Always remember, the historical reason this was done was as a possible way to resolve the inherent conflicts between the Biblical claims of Christ's pre-existence and having some of the inherent properties and prerogatives belonging to God as expressed in John 1:1-14, Colossians 1:15-19 and 2:9-10, Philippians 2:6-11, and elsewhere with the demands of classical Jewish monotheism expressed succinctly in Deuteronomy 6:4.

I don't even think it was conflicts...because, frankly, I can't think of any right now.
BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS....I AM.

I think the ECFs were dealing with WHAT Jesus was....
@Matthias posted an excellent article with regard to Jesus not being a Person....
it's just a lot to take in. I think you could handle it....

HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH*

 

[GodsGrace]

Curious. Does that mean that "sin" is an inherent property of the substance of Humanity? Or is Sin with a capital "S" a "substance" in itself which contaminates the "Form" of a man? Paul's use of "Sin" in Romans 7-8 and elsewhere would lead me to believe he believed Sin had it's own existence.

In regard to "not a human person", and going back to the definition of "Person", which test of Human Personhood would Jesus Christ fail? The test of human substance, the test of individuality, or the test of rationality?

Great questions Lambano.
I would tend to believe it's your 2nd choice....
Sin is its own existance.

This would clear away the conflict between 1 John 1 and 2 and 1 John 3:9.
We take it to mean that a Christian would not sin CONTINUOUSLY....

However, if Sin were its own entity....it would also make sense when we say that if a person is in Christ he will not Sin.

IOW,,,,we could sin.....but the entity known as Sin would no longer be in us.

??

 

[GodsGrace]

Curious. Does that mean that "sin" is an inherent property of the substance of Humanity? Or is Sin with a capital "S" a "substance" in itself which contaminates the "Form" of a man? Paul's use of "Sin" in Romans 7-8 and elsewhere would lead me to believe he believed Sin had it's own existence.

In regard to "not a human person", and going back to the definition of "Person", which test of Human Personhood would Jesus Christ fail? The test of human substance, the test of individuality, or the test of rationality?

In fact...we believe that we are TAINTED with sin.
NOT that we are sin itself.
So, again, that would make Sin its own entity.