Was Jesus Heretical? - Why did they crucify Him?

[Mr E]

Hey E,

I apologize. You lost me on this one. I didn't insert 'contrary to the truth'. It is under #2, third sentence down.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your point?

Sincerely, Mary

Nah. I think you understand my point well enough.

Have a good day Mary.

 

[Marymog]

Nah. I think you understand my point well enough.

Have a good day Mary.

Lol....No, I don't have a clue what your point is.

Definition 1b directly applies to the Catholic church while 1a and 1c apply to "church"...that could be any church (denomination).

While 2a is in reference to ANY dominant theory, opinion, or practice. There is clarification of that right under that definition (To disagree with the party leadership was heresy.)

2b is a reference to generally accepted beliefs or standards. There is clarification of that right under that definition (our democratic heresy which holds that … truth is to be found by majority vote)

It appears that you just want to focus on 1b ONLY in our discussion about heresy when our conversation is NOT only about 1b. It is about THE definition of heresy!!


With that said what I wrote is still true; I (as a baptized Catholic) only have to believe in the infallible teachings (dogma) of The Church.

Webster dictionary 1b: denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church (is a heresy)

Keeping it real....Mary

 

[Marymog]

Wow. You really do have control issues, don't you?
(are you a defense lawyer?)

You crack me up Steven.

I looked back at all of our posts. Only YOU brought up Catholic......enough said.

 

[Marymog]

The living waters (a complete misunderstanding of what Jesus meant by the term) were obviously out in public. A flowing river.
Seems we still disagree on what constitutes a public declaration. But that's okay.

Thanks for the clarification steven!

Yes, we disagree on "public declaration". I have given Scriptural evidence of both PUBLIC and PRIVATE baptisms. You only gave examples of public baptisms....but that's ok.

 

[Marymog]

Don't stop there...

- When have I not been discussion?
- When have I not been isn't?
- When have I not been happening?
- When have I not been with?
- When have I not been Mary?

Don't be ridiculous, you've always been Mary.
(unless there is something we don't know about you) ???

Why are you being so condescending? Have I done that to you?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

Have a good day Mary.

Every day is a good day for Mary!

 

[Marymog]

Not only that-You also incorrectly presume that Catholic dogma is first of all true and secondly infallible in nature. It's not.

Hey E,

Scripture says that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. If it isn't the Catholic Church, which one is it?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

The Catholic Church doesn't have a very proud history of tolerance to those who oppose it's beliefs. To say otherwise is to deny that their Popes have conducted themselves poorly on occasion and taught dogmatically ideas that stand in stark contradiction to previous teachings that were also held to be infallible. Kind of wrecking it for late-comers.

Yup Mr E, that is true. The Catholic Church doesn't have a very proud history of tolerance to those who oppose it's [sic] beliefs. When have I said otherwise? Which post #?

What dogmatic teachings of The Church "stand in stark contradiction to previous teachings that were also held to be infallible"?

Curious Mary

 

[Mr E]

Hey E,

Scripture says that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. If it isn't the Catholic Church, which one is it?

Curious Mary

Since Jesus was 'the church' he couldn't hold an opinion opposite of the church.

Well I don't agree with you precisely that "Jesus was the church" at least, not in the universal (catholic) sense. It's unlikely that you could get your head around the idea, but I do believe that Jesus became 'the house of God' and that we too (as Christians) are also the temple of the Holy Spirit of God in the same way. "The church" of God, is the body of Christ, the spirit of the living God.

Yup Mr E, that is true. The Catholic Church doesn't have a very proud history of tolerance to those who oppose it's [sic] beliefs. When have I said otherwise? Which post #?

What dogmatic teachings of The Church "stand in stark contradiction to previous teachings that were also held to be infallible"?

Curious Mary

I gave you an example, which you ignored. I guess I gave you a 'no thank you' sized sample. (Contrary Mary).

 

[Earburner]

Sadly, it appears that the this thread is now on a "one way" course about religion, aka "church-ianity", which saves no one.
1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

 

[Earburner]

Well I don't agree with you precisely that "Jesus was the church" at least, not in the universal (catholic) sense. It's unlikely that you could get your head around the idea, but I do believe that Jesus became 'the house of God' and that we too (as Christians) are also the temple of the Holy Spirit of God in the same way. "The church" of God, is the body of Christ, the spirit of the living God.

Amen!! Yes, Jesus Himself is the house (dwelling place) of his Father, the Living God.
Therefore, John 14:23, Rev. 3:20, 1 John 5:12-13 and Rom. 8:9 all apply.

Jesus, having the Father within Him, is our New Heaven, and WE who are born again of God's Holy Spirit, are their New Earth.

 

[Earburner]

Scripture says that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. If it isn't the Catholic Church, which one is it?

Curious Mary

The invisible church of "Born Again Christians" (John 3:3-8, Rev. 3:20), from out of all the Denominations of "church-ianity".

 

[MatthewG]

Amen!! Yes, Jesus Himself is the house (dwelling place) of his Father, the Living God.
Therefore, John 14:23, Rev. 3:20, 1 John 5:12-13 and Rom. 8:9 all apply.

Jesus, having the Father within Him, is our New Heaven, and WE who are born again of God's Holy Spirit, are their New Earth.

Wow! That is the ticket.

Part of the Heavenly kingdom, and being part of a dwelling place in our (earth) body.

 

[Earburner]

Thanks for the clarification steven!

Yes, we disagree on "public declaration". I have given Scriptural evidence of both PUBLIC and PRIVATE baptisms. You only gave examples of public baptisms....but that's ok.

^ from post #164.

Actually, you both are misunderstanding Jesus. The Living Waters is the Gift of God's Holy Spirit of Eternal Life.
John 4[10] Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him [Luke 11:13], and he would have given thee living water. Rev. 3:20.

Many are baptized by literal water, but few are baptized by the Holy Spirit. ("....many are called, but few chosen". Mat. 20:16)
John 7
[38] He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly [inner most being] shall flow rivers of living water.

 

[Earburner]

Wow! That is the ticket.

Part of the Heavenly kingdom, and being part of a dwelling place in our (earth) body.

Hence the meaning of 2 Cor. 4
[7] But we have this treasure [God Himself] in earthen vessels [our mortal bodies], that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Which is exactly where God and His Righteousness has desired to dwell, ever since Creation.

 

[strepho]

Jesus was none. He taught sound doctrine and the fake religious leaders hated Him and plotted His murder at the beginning of His ministry.
Matthew chapter 23. Jesus exposes the pharisees and SADDUCEES. Thier hatred set in motion to deliver Jesus to pilate soon after. Satan uses fake shepherds to carry out his dirty work.
To be Christian is to be christ man or woman. The symbol of fish means Christian.
First Peter 2:9. America is Christian nation.
First Corinthians chapter 3 . Apostates broke away from the foundation of christ and formed Denominations. They teach prosperity doctrine, traditions of men and false doctrine.
ABEDAH in Hebrew means = Hades, lost, destruction.
OVOPA in Greek means = called, chosen.
IEPEUS in Greek = priest elected and separated by God.
HOSTAGE in Hebrew means = Taarubah. Denominations have many people in Bondage. By traditions of men.
PSEUDADELPHOS in Greek means = false brethren.
Hebrews 5:4. And no man takes this honor unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
The apostates started denominations. They teach false doctrine. Majority of hirelings don't have holy spirit. They have spirit of stupor.
Those who have holy spirit, understand mystery of God and teach sound doctrine. Revelation chapter 7 . Its the seal of God.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Heresy
belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine.

Jesus, being the word, fulfilled the OT prophecies concerning himself as the saviour, Messiah and redeemer of his ppl. He told them to search the scriptures....... as we must also today to identify heretical doctrines of men against the word of God !

John 5:39-47
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have NOT the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 12:48-50 KJV
He that REJECTETH me and RECEIVERH NOT my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Any interpretation, doctrine, tradition or ritual, creed or belief that is contrary to God's truth is heretical !

Believe what one chooses to believe but so too will the word of God be the judge of such beliefs.

 

[St. SteVen]

Thanks for the clarification steven!

Yes, we disagree on "public declaration". I have given Scriptural evidence of both PUBLIC and PRIVATE baptisms. You only gave examples of public baptisms....but that's ok.

Perhaps we are looking at this differently.
I think you are asking for biblical proof that baptism can only be done publicly.
But I was telling you what Protestants do with baptism and our view.

We CONSIDER baptism to be a public confession/declaration of faith.
This does not disqualify a baptism NOT done "in public". (outdoors with a crowd watching)

It could be only the baptizer and the baptizee. The important thing is the CONFESSION of faith.
The baptizer will ask the baptizee to agree to a confession of faith in Jesus Christ.
Upon this confession of faith the baptizer baptizes the baptizee. (chuckling at my own sentence)

 

[St. SteVen]

Why are you being so condescending? Have I done that to you?

Not condescending, a failed attempt at humor. (sorry)

 

[St. SteVen]

Actually, you both are misunderstanding Jesus. The Living Waters is the Gift of God's Holy Spirit of Eternal Life.

This was a reference to the words of the Didache. NOT the words of Christ.
I disagree with the Didache on this point.