Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

@Enoch111 @Taken @Renniks @GISMYS_7 @Backlit @Riverwalker @BARNEY BRIGHT @TLHKAJ @HisLife @Ronald Nolette @post @Wynona @Iconoclast @CharismaticLady @MatthewG @Abaxvahl @BeyondET @RLT63 @Rightglory @Bible_Patrol @Jim B @Johann @Gilligan @Behold @Pierac @n2thelight @Eternally Grateful

Man Opening The Door To Salvation - The Free-willian Philosophy Explained​

Free-willians think a person achieves salvation by doing the work of choosing Jesus, yet free-willians simultaneously think another person goes to hell in the absence of doing the work of choosing Jesus.
THEREFORE, a guy that chose Jesus saves the guy himself, yet a gal that did not choose Jesus condemns the gal herself.

SO, the guy saved himself because without his choosing of Jesus, then he'd be just like that gal.

POINTEDLY, the guy's salvation hinges solely on the guy's choosing Jesus because, in contrast to being saved, the guy would be hell-bound if that hinge of choosing Jesus did not swing open by the guy's power.

The "hinge" of the door mentioned above is based on free will philosophy.

Consider a third individual, who never heard the Gospel of Christ, such a person is not going to be with Christ in His Kingdom - even under free-willian philosophy.

In this sample population, the majority do not enter Heaven, yet the entire population of people are created by God.

Free-willians preach that their god atones for the sins of every man everywhere in all time after the cross; in other words, all people are redeemed by the god that free-willians preach, yet that gal goes to Hell who rejected Jesus; therefore, the god of free-willians failed to save the gal for whom the son of the god of the free-willians died to save.

The blood at the cross also established a spot in Heaven for the third individual who never heard the Gospel, but that spot will remain vacant for all eternity - the god of the free-willians was unable to keep the spot occupied.

The god of free-willian philosophy is weak, incapable, ineffectual, a liar, and not YHWH God.

The free-willian god is non-omniscient, non-omnipresent, and non-omnipotent.

That is no god at all which the free-willians create in their imagination, just a tradition of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), God saves every single individual for whom Jesus died on the cross to redeem from the wrath of God; in other words, God does not miss saving a single one of God's chosen persons for whom Jesus made atonement on the cross.

Lord Jesus says "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one" (John 10:27-30).

We Christians hear the Master say "it is finished" (John 19:30), and in that moment we receive the love of God (John 3:16) bestowing undeserved forgiveness upon us wretched God-hating monsters (Ephesians 2:1-4) - that the Son sacrificed Himself to reconcile the world to Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19) for the glory of God (John 17:4-5).

We believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent, and we believe Lord Jesus' sayings that belief is the blessed work of God in us (John 6:29) - it is more than an awakening - it is an enlivening - it is being born again (John 3:3-8) - it is getting the new heart that God wondrously implants in us (Ezekiel 36:26).

We Christians know that God's merciful salvation hinges on Christ alone for the glory of God alone, and there is nothing we can do nor say - not even a human choice approving of Jesus in order to obtain saving grace - nothing we say or do earns the unearnable love of God. We believe that Being saved from the wrath of God is exclusively God choosing us, not us choosing God (John 15:16, John 15:19).

For Christians, it is "believing"; in contrast, for the guy saying "I chose to believe in Jesus", it is "choosing".

For us Christians, it all hinges on Christ alone, yet for the free-willians saying "I chose to believe in Jesus", it all hinges on the a free-willian's choice.

The free will philosophy is proven to be deception because "Behold, His servants, He does not trust" (Job 4:18), so God does not trust a person who chooses Jesus; therefore, a free-willian who says "I chose Jesus" is bound for hell.

Behold, the psalmist says he is entirely dependent upon the Almighty!

I will extol You, O YHWH, for You have lifted me up,
And have not let my enemies rejoice over me.
O YHWH my God,
I cried to You for help, and You healed me.
O YHWH, You have brought up my soul from Sheol;
You have kept me alive, that I would not go down to the pit.
(Psalm 30:1-3)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Johann]

You most certainly appear to me to be attempting to nullify the Christ's words.

Am I dealing with a "Bot" here?
You cant hold a discussion?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son (Ezekiel 18:20).

God can and most certainly does punish the self-willed person (2 Peter 2:9-10) that God finds guilty of insurrection against the Kingdom of God and the Anointed One Jesus Christ.

God is just.

That you for showing Adam had free will.

 

[Kermos]

Am I dealing with a "Bot" here?
You cant hold a discussion?

Erasing the vast majority of the post that God had me write to you does not erase that you wrote:

You did not choose me does not negate the disciples’
willing decision to follow Jesus when he called them.

J.

You most certainly appear to me to be attempting to nullify the Christ's words.

Essentially, you wrote that Jesus says "you did not choose Me except when you chose to follow me, but I chose you" instead of the Lord's actual words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16).

Friend, every occurrence of Christian obedience to any and every command of God is a fruit of the Spirit, that is, an act of God in the Christian for the Word of God says "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing " (John 15:5) and Christ reveals even deeper that a person initially coming to Christ as wrought in God with "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God " (John 3:21); therefore, even the fruit of following Jesus is caused by God - Christians act righteously by following Jesus joyfully by the Power of God!

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

That you for showing Adam had free will.

No. You must be blind because the following Apostolic testimony shows that Adam did not have free-will as your self-willed thoughts impute upon Adam.

The Bondage Of A Man's Will​

Free-willians, in a respect, are correct that "there's no difference between self will and free will", and that respect is that both self will and free will lead to hell.
Now, instead of listening to themselves lie with things like "Free will is all through the scriptures", they need to listen to Apostolic testimony as shown below.

Peter the Apostle wrote that prior to being saved, people have a self will that brings such people under damnation with the devil according to the Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Paul the Apostle wrote that after being saved, people have a will that is bound under the loving control of God according to the Apostle Paul (Philippians 2:13).

Here's Paul from the Bible, again. Overall, Paul uses free will as illusory instead of concrete in Philemon 1:14 - and this is the only occurrence of "free will" that I am aware of in the New American Standard Bible New Testament.

Free-willians do not have a free will, as described by Paul.

Free-willians do have a self will, as described by Peter.

Free-willians gleefully separate themselves from God's will and the Christ of us Christians Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19). We Christians in God's Spirit have a will bound enthusiastically in joy and love to God by God for God through God, as described by Paul.

The above mentioned Apostolic testimony verbatim:

• "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority; daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).
• "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).
• "but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Philemon 1:14).
  By God's grace, for God's glory!

Your writings accord not with Apostolic testimony.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No. You must be blind because the following Apostolic testimony shows that Adam did not have free-will as your self-willed thoughts impute upon Adam.

The Bondage Of A Man's Will​

Free-willians, in a respect, are correct that "there's no difference between self will and free will", and that respect is that both self will and free will lead to hell.
Now, instead of listening to themselves lie with things like "Free will is all through the scriptures", they need to listen to Apostolic testimony as shown below.

Peter the Apostle wrote that prior to being saved, people have a self will that brings such people under damnation with the devil according to the Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Paul the Apostle wrote that after being saved, people have a will that is bound under the loving control of God according to the Apostle Paul (Philippians 2:13).

Here's Paul from the Bible, again. Overall, Paul uses free will as illusory instead of concrete in Philemon 1:14 - and this is the only occurrence of "free will" that I am aware of in the New American Standard Bible New Testament.

Free-willians do not have a free will, as described by Paul.

Free-willians do have a self will, as described by Peter.

Free-willians gleefully separate themselves from God's will and the Christ of us Christians Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19). We Christians in God's Spirit have a will bound enthusiastically in joy and love to God by God for God through God, as described by Paul.

The above mentioned Apostolic testimony verbatim:

• "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority; daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).
• "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).
• "but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Philemon 1:14).
  By God's grace, for God's glory!

Your writings accord not with Apostolic testimony.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

I am not blind,

You are

Adam had free will. He had self will. He could chose to say Yes to God. Or say no to him

 

[Pierac]

God knows. Paul knows. I know. All Christians know. God says who God is, and God says who man is.

I have a couple of questions for you, but after this.

Man's "Will" In Scripture Related To The Creation Account​

Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.

Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.

A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".

Some people may claim that Paul was referring to a timeframe exclusively after what they call "the fall" (after Adam ate of the tree [Genesis 3:6]), but the continuity of the passage of Romans 8:20-22 must be taken as a whole.

Paul left no room for disputing to the timeframe for which "not willingly" applies, for Paul also wrote "we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:22), and the phrase "until now" is the timeframe's most recent limiting factor which memes that all times prior to "now" are included, so "the whole creation" includes the moment after God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7) until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6); therefore, we can be certain that Paul includes the timeframe that Adam ate of the tree in the travailing/groaning because Paul wrote of all of this in the same passage, i.e. Romans 8:20-22.

Presenting an event driven review of Paul's writing "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:20-22) and the creation account and more recorded in Genesis:

• See "until now" (Romans 8:22) indicates all time prior to the Apostle Paul for he wrote "the whole creation" (Romans 8:22), as in "the whole creation" "until now".
• See the serpent was in the garden tempting Eve (Genesis 3:1-5) before Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6).
• See "subjected to futility" (Romans 8:20) as the serpent's futility of lying to Eve with "You surely will not die" (Genesis 3:4) - before Adam or Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6), yet Adam and Eve died (Genesis 5:5, Genesis 7:21 none of mankind, besides the 8 [Genesis 7:7 and 1 Peter 3:20], survived the flood, so Eve had to be dead).
• See "not willingly" (Romans 8:20) applies to Adam eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6) for the Word of God specifically attributed the cause of Adam eating of the tree as "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17), so here God reveals for Adam the cause (listen to wife) and the effect (eat of tree); therefore, eating of the tree was "not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).

Again, to address your opening question. God knows. Paul knows. I know. All Christians know. God says who God is, and God says who man is.

Why would you write "Just crazy to even think about" about this topic?

Why would you write "lots of laughs" (LOL) about the topic?

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

LOL is a way out of the Traditions of men.... Showing YOU the truth.... then not getting banned on the forum.... Like I have been banned from this very forum once before... for a topic related to the false Trinity Docterine... I think you should get the freaking Idea!!! But given your lack of fear for being Banned... You must suck it up Butter Cup... To the traditions of men... Like no one I have ever known...

You have know idea how much you speak as a child in your post.... NOT even close to .... risking being banned.. .

Female cat Kermos....

Really!

 

[Johann]

Female cat Kermos....

Really!

Female?!

 

[Pierac]

Female?!

NO!!! Kermos

Really? LOL

 

[Johann]

Female cat Kermos....

Really!

Female?!

NO!!! Kermos

Really? LOL

Looks like you two know each other.

 

[Pierac]

Female?!

Looks like you two know each other.

I think we are about too... As we share too much that differs from others... God help us both!

 

[Kermos]

I am not blind,

You are

Adam had free will. He had self will. He could chose to say Yes to God. Or say no to him

No, absolutely no scripture states that man was created with a free-will.

A self-willed person, who dies in self-will, is damned because the Apostle explained "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority; daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

No, absolutely no person can choose God because the Word of God says:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

Free-willian philosophy adherents delusionally preach that people revile King Jesus in His majesties by people free-will choosing Jesus - the very opposite of the Christ's proclamation and teaching the very opposite of the Word of God. Free-willians believe not Jesus the Christ's words, and the Christ says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, absolutely no scripture states that man was created with a free-will.

A self-willed person, who dies in self-will, is damned because the Apostle explained "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority; daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

No, absolutely no person can choose God because the Word of God says:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

Free-willian philosophy adherents delusionally preach that people revile King Jesus in His majesties by people free-will choosing Jesus - the very opposite of the Christ's proclamation and teaching the very opposite of the Word of God. Free-willians believe not Jesus the Christ's words, and the Christ says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

God gave adam free will. We know this because GGod gave adam a choice

do not eat of this tree

if you do. You will die

thats a choice Adam had to chose to make on his own.

lastly. Your strawman has no meaning here

I did nto chose God. I chose to recieve God and his salvation. HUGE difference

and I could NEVER have made that choice unless God drew me to himself.. It was not my work.. thats nonsensical.

 

[Kermos]

LOL is a way out of the Traditions of men.... Showing YOU the truth.... then not getting banned on the forum.... Like I have been banned from this very forum once before... for a topic related to the false Trinity Docterine... I think you should get the freaking Idea!!! But given your lack of fear for being Banned... You must suck it up Butter Cup... To the traditions of men... Like no one I have ever known...

You have know idea how much you speak as a child in your post.... NOT even close to .... risking being banned.. .

Female cat Kermos....

Really!

You responded very strangely, Pierac.

Truly, Lord Jesus Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

Jesus says I AM, and He did not say "I was created".

So, one week before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM ring true.

And, two weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM resound true.

And, three weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM are true.

And, the minute prior to the minute any of all the angels were created Jesus' words of I AM trumpet true.

And, the week prior to any of the angels being created Jesus' words of I AM harmonize truthfully.

No matter when in time one seeks before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of I AM remain absolutely true.

Going back in time, Jesus is always I AM, never created, He is always I AM.

Going back in time, anytime in all eternity because Jesus says "before Abraham" with no exceptions, Jesus Being.

Behold, Going back in time, Jesus Being.

JESUS IS EVERLASTING going back in time.

Jesus says "I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20).

The angel Gabriel declared to Mary about Jesus "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end" (Luke 1:33).

Behold, Going forward in time, Jesus Being.

JESUS IS EVERLASTING going forward in time.

GOD is exclusively the One that IS EVERLASTING going back in time and going forward in time.

God is everlasting.

Jesus is everlasting.

No one except God is everlasting.

Everlasting YHWH God is Lord Jesus Christ for He declares "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8, see also Revelation 21:6 and Revelation 22:13), thus says He Who is coming on the clouds!

"I am YHWH, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5).

"Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me" (Isaiah 43:10).

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

All people that think Jesus Christ was created hold to news that is not the Good News (Gospel) of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:6-7), so such people have no gospel at all.

When Jesus says "I AM", then Jesus includes "I AM in control".

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

God gave adam free will. We know this because GGod gave adam a choice

do not eat of this tree

if you do. You will die

thats a choice Adam had to chose to make on his own.

lastly. Your strawman has no meaning here

I did nto chose God. I chose to recieve God and his salvation. HUGE difference

and I could NEVER have made that choice unless God drew me to himself.. It was not my work.. thats nonsensical.

Man's "Will" In Scripture Related To The Creation Account​

Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.
Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.

A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".

Some people may claim that Paul was referring to a timeframe exclusively after what they call "the fall" (after Adam ate of the tree [Genesis 3:6]), but the continuity of the passage of Romans 8:20-22 must be taken as a whole.

Paul left no room for disputing to the timeframe for which "not willingly" applies, for Paul also wrote "we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:22), and the phrase "until now" is the timeframe's most recent limiting factor which memes that all times prior to "now" are included, so "the whole creation" includes the moment after God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7) until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6); therefore, we can be certain that Paul includes the timeframe that Adam ate of the tree in the travailing/groaning because Paul wrote of all of this in the same passage, i.e. Romans 8:20-22.

Presenting an event driven review of Paul's writing "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:20-22) and the creation account and more recorded in Genesis:

• See "until now" (Romans 8:22) indicates all time prior to the Apostle Paul for he wrote "the whole creation" (Romans 8:22), as in "the whole creation" "until now".
• See the serpent was in the garden tempting Eve (Genesis 3:1-5) before Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6).
• See "subjected to futility" (Romans 8:20) as the serpent's futility of lying to Eve with "You surely will not die" (Genesis 3:4) - before Adam or Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6), yet Adam and Eve died (Genesis 5:5, Genesis 7:21 none of mankind, besides the 8 [Genesis 7:7 and 1 Peter 3:20], survived the flood, so Eve had to be dead).
• See "not willingly" (Romans 8:20) applies to Adam eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6) for the Word of God specifically attributed the cause of Adam eating of the tree as "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17), so here God reveals for Adam the cause (listen to wife) and the effect (eat of tree); therefore, eating of the tree was "not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Man's "Will" In Scripture Related To The Creation Account​

Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.
Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.

A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".

Some people may claim that Paul was referring to a timeframe exclusively after what they call "the fall" (after Adam ate of the tree [Genesis 3:6]), but the continuity of the passage of Romans 8:20-22 must be taken as a whole.

Paul left no room for disputing to the timeframe for which "not willingly" applies, for Paul also wrote "we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:22), and the phrase "until now" is the timeframe's most recent limiting factor which memes that all times prior to "now" are included, so "the whole creation" includes the moment after God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7) until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6); therefore, we can be certain that Paul includes the timeframe that Adam ate of the tree in the travailing/groaning because Paul wrote of all of this in the same passage, i.e. Romans 8:20-22.

Presenting an event driven review of Paul's writing "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:20-22) and the creation account and more recorded in Genesis:

• See "until now" (Romans 8:22) indicates all time prior to the Apostle Paul for he wrote "the whole creation" (Romans 8:22), as in "the whole creation" "until now".
• See the serpent was in the garden tempting Eve (Genesis 3:1-5) before Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6).
• See "subjected to futility" (Romans 8:20) as the serpent's futility of lying to Eve with "You surely will not die" (Genesis 3:4) - before Adam or Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6), yet Adam and Eve died (Genesis 5:5, Genesis 7:21 none of mankind, besides the 8 [Genesis 7:7 and 1 Peter 3:20], survived the flood, so Eve had to be dead).
• See "not willingly" (Romans 8:20) applies to Adam eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6) for the Word of God specifically attributed the cause of Adam eating of the tree as "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17), so here God reveals for Adam the cause (listen to wife) and the effect (eat of tree); therefore, eating of the tree was "not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

Gen 1 - 3 was not silent on the matter

God told adam, you may eat of every tree. But of this one tre yu shall not eat. Ever, for in that day you will die

God gave adam a choice.

stop listening to theology written by man, and start to read the word.

 

[Kermos]

Gen 1 - 3 was not silent on the matter

God told adam, you may eat of every tree. But of this one tre yu shall not eat. Ever, for in that day you will die

God gave adam a choice.

The Hebrew word בָּחר (bachar, choose, Strong's Number 977) appears nowhere in Genesis 1-5.

The word choose and it's conjugates are entirely absent from the creation account in Genesis 1:1-31 and Genesis 2:1-25 and Genesis 3:1-24 and Genesis 4:1-26 and Genesis 5:1-32.

So, you are correct with your "Gen 1 - 3 was not silent on the matter" because God commanded Adam not to eat of the tree.

Let's look at the Word of God:

YHWH God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”
(Genesis 2:16-17)
​

Since God included no impartation of ability for man to choose toward God in Genesis 2:16-17, then your thoughts result in the following rendition of Genesis 2:16-17 "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you have the ability to choose to eat or not eat, but if you eat from it you will surely die." (the word of Eternally Grateful).

Your heart's rendition adds to the Word of God, and, as the original post includes, it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

I did nto chose God. I chose to recieve God and his salvation. HUGE difference

Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ. You should have recognized this in relation to what you wrote if you had taken the time to read the original post.

“RECEIVE” DEFINITION BY EXAMPLE:

The woman received a punch to her face dislocating her septum – not by choice – but in the fury of her assailant’s surprise attack.

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries – not by choice – but a result of the car jumping the curb.

A lover receives a love letter – not by choice – but in gladness.

RECEIVED MEANS A THING THAT UNAVOIDABLY CAME IN FROM A SOURCE TO A RECIPIENT – RECEIVE IS NOT A CHOICE LIKE ACCEPT – RECEIVE JUST HAPPENS.

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is a result of being born of God in John 1:12-13.

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is not an act of the will of man in John 1:12-13.

The ones who received Christ are the ones “who were born” “of God”.

Let’s follow the blessed chain linking these people of whom John wrote which is the “born of God” (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) links with “believe in His name” (John 1:12, John 6:29) links with “many as received Him” (John 1:12, John 9).

Each of these are exactly the same people:

• ”many as received Him”
• ”children of God”
• ”believe in His name”
• ”born of God”

See that John states none of these enumerated people achieved this by “the will of man”.

Here is the passage:

“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God” (John 1:12-13).

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to receive Jesus.

stop listening to theology written by man, and start to read the word.

Wow, now you wickedly command me to stop listening to the Apostle Paul who wrote Romans 8:20-22 (see the post to which you replied), but I reject that portion of your command as antichrist.

By God's grace for God's glory, Lord Jesus Christ enlivend men in the Word long before your command! The Word of God says:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

No scripture states that man has the ability to choose towards God.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Gilligan]

You need to make no mistake about this, self-will is damnation. Self-will is not the same thing as free-will.

True. Self will is impossible without free will to make our will our own, and not to do God's will. Self-will proves God's gift of free will by abusing it.

Let's look at scripture abour free-will, self-will, and bond-will, each in turn in the following paragraphs.


The Apostle Paul refers to free will as illusory, as an illusion, when he wrote "but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Philemon 1:14), and there is the Bible's single reference to free-will that I have found.

Already corrected this, without response from you. You're repeating yourself only.

The Apostle Peter refers to self will as concrete fact, that self-willed persons are unbelievers

True.

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

Once again, this is already addressed at the first post, to which you have no response.

The Apostle Paul refers to bond will in every Christian, that a Christian's will is lovingky bound to God by God for God, when he wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), so we Christians have wills that are bound and controlled by the Power of God - by God's grace for God's glory (Ephesians 2:8-10).

True. Good point, thanks.

God's gift of free will given to man by creating us in His image, will go one of two ways in this life: our freely given bond will to God, as with an aul bored through our ear for Christ's sake, or willfully giving ourselves in service to sin and the devil.

One of these two choices with be made with our free will, by which we will be judged according to our works therefrom.

Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

Double heartedness is bouncing back and forth, and one day will either be made straight for the Lord, or the decision will be made for us in death.

YOU CLASSIFIED YOURSELF AS A SELF-WILLED PERSON IN YOUR POST QUOTED ABOVE.

You classify anyone not agreeing with you as self-willed. When it comes to rejecting false doctrine, self will can be good, because it's self preservation.

 

[Kermos]

True. Self will is impossible without free will to make our will our own, and not to do God's will. Self-will proves God's gift of free will by abusing it.

Since no scripture states man was imparted free-will, then the only way to arrive at man having free-will is to add for man to add free-will to the Word of God, but then it is no longer the Word of God because man's adulteration causes it to be the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

Every time you reference free-will for yourself, you refer to a thing that you concoct in your imagination, yet that free-will is non-existent.

Essentially, your thoughts are out of concord with the Word of God.

Already corrected this, without response from you. You're repeating yourself only.

Your self will (2 Peter 2:9-10) knows no bounds for you arrogantly think that you "correct" the Apostle Paul and the Apostle Peter.

You erased 2 Peter 2:9-10, Philemon 1:14, and Philippians 2:13 from the post that God had me make to you, and you try to erase it from your heart as well.

You adulterated the scripture by trying to eliminate the Apostolic testimony of Peter and Paul.

Your argument for free-will was DoA, dead on arrival - your argument that you blindly claim was unaddressed - that argument of yours was addressed by Peter and Paul before you were born.

True.

You say the following statement is true, "The Apostle Peter refers to self will as concrete fact, that self-willed persons are unbelievers", yet you class yourself among self-willed persons when you wrote:

Self-will is from the freedom to choose who will we will serve.

But Peter wrote self-will leads to damnation for unrighteous self-willed unbelievers with "unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment" (2 Peter 2:9).

Self-willed persons are unable to see the Kingdom of God nor King Jesus in His righteousness because self-willed persons are not born of God (see John 3:3-8).

Once again, this is already addressed at the first post, to which you have no response.

As is demonstrated in this post, you cannot even see King Jesus and you cannot choose Jesus in your self-assigned self-will because King Jesus says:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

Your self-will failed to address the Word of God in Truth (John 14:6).

True. Good point, thanks.

There is NO self-will in "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), so self-will is described by Peter as disassociated from God yet Paul describes a person's will bound to God such that God causes the person to will for God's glory!

God's gift of free will given to man by creating us in His image, will go one of two ways in this life: our freely given bond will to God, as with an aul bored through our ear for Christ's sake, or willfully giving ourselves in service to sin and the devil.

One of these two choices with be made with our free will, by which we will be judged according to our works therefrom.

Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

Double heartedness is bouncing back and forth, and one day will either be made straight for the Lord, or the decision will be made for us in death.

That's a whole lot of your thoughts without any scripture!

A word about your thoughts. It is written, "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares the LORD. 'For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is evil.

You classify anyone not agreeing with you as self-willed. When it comes to rejecting false doctrine, self will can be good, because it's self preservation.

Actually, YOU CLASSIFIED YOURSELF AS SELF-WILLED WHEN YOU WROTE:

Exactly. Self-will is from the freedom to choose who will we will serve.

All Scripture points to man's freedom of will to choose. You say we have no such freedom, as opposed to animals, because you want to hear God say the words, "I give you free will to choose." God does not bow down to the demands of unbelievers.

You need to make no mistake about this, self-will is damnation. Self-will is not the same thing as free-will.

Let's look at scripture abour free-will, self-will, and bond-will, each in turn in the following paragraphs.

The Apostle Paul refers to free will as illusory, as an illusion, when he wrote "but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Philemon 1:14), and there is the Bible's single reference to free-will that I have found.

The Apostle Peter refers to self will as concrete fact, that self-willed persons are unbelievers when he wrote "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10), so self-willed people revile the Majesty of King Jesus in their "I chose Jesus" in spite of the King saying:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The Apostle Paul refers to bond will in every Christian, that a Christian's will is lovingky bound to God by God for God, when he wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), so we Christians have wills that are bound and controlled by the Power of God - by God's grace for God's glory (Ephesians 2:8-10).

YOU CLASSIFIED YOURSELF AS A SELF-WILLED PERSON IN YOUR POST QUOTED ABOVE.

You were absolutely correct when you wrote "God does not bow down to the demands of unbelievers" because self-willed unbelievers issue reviling demands like "I chose Jesus and now Jesus must save me".

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Gilligan]

Since no scripture states man was imparted free-will,

No Scripture says we are not given free will, therefore any such argument one way or the other based upon Scripture plainly saying so is false. You say not based upon what is not said in Scripture.

My argument for free will is not based upon what is not written, as you do, but based upon the Scriptures showing man must have free will to choose to serve the Lord, or t willfully sin against Him.

Calvin's no free will doctrine is false, and is only made to foolishly try explain why some choose not to serve and love the Lord. It's foolish, because the Lord Himself says He does not understand why.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Calvin idiotically messed up an otherwise good ministry of Christ in Geneva, when he came up with that predetermined and non-willing salvation heresy.

It has led many Christians into more ungodliness.

Your self will (2 Peter 2:9-10) knows no bounds for you arrogantly think that you "correct" the Apostle Paul and the Apostle Peter.

Rejecting your willful faith in Calvin's heresy, is not rejecting the Scriptures of God.

You erased 2 Peter 2:9-10, Philemon 1:14, and Philippians 2:13 from the post that God had me make to you, and you try to erase it from your heart as well.

I corrected your errant teaching of them. Errors taught cannot be erased, but only corrected. Unless the false teacher wants to repent and erase them himself.

You adulterated the scripture by trying to eliminate the Apostolic testimony of Peter and Paul.

As I said above, I cannot eliminate your false testimony of Peter and Paul, but only correct it.

Your argument for free-will was DoA, dead on arrival -

I.e. any willingness on your part to be corrected is dead. Once I saw that after the first challenge, it's all just been an exercise in correcting error by rightly dividing the written word. You do know that's the only reason I've continued with you, right?

And now I see you've exhausted your arguments with nothing new, but only fallen into childish accusations, so things are winding down to an end with you.

You say the following statement is true, "The Apostle Peter refers to self will as concrete fact, that self-willed persons are unbelievers",
yet you class yourself among self-willed persons when you wrote:

There is no self-will without the free will to choose our own will.

God does not given any man self-will, nor is He the author of lust and sin:

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.


Your teaching is false, and you falsely accuse God of giving certain men the will to wilfully rebel against Him.

God gives power of free will to all men, and we can abuse that power by choosing our own will and produce our own lust for sinning, rather than choose to do the will of God.

But Peter wrote self-will leads to damnation for unrighteous self-willed unbelievers with "unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment" (2 Peter 2:9).

True.

Self-willed persons are unable to see the Kingdom of God nor King Jesus in His righteousness because self-willed persons are not born of God (see John 3:3-8).

True again.

As is demonstrated in this post, you cannot even see King Jesus and you cannot choose Jesus in your self-assigned self-will because King Jesus says:

Whatever.

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

Already challenged your reading of this, to which you have no answer.

Your self-will failed to address the Word of God in Truth (John 14:6).

I'm not sure if you've offered this challenge before, so I'll respond.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No man comes to the Father, except we come to the Son, and no man comes to the Son, except the Father draws him to the Son.

And all men are drawn to the Son, but some freely refuse His calling, as Adam did when he wilfully ate of the fruit he was commanded not to eat of.

And some men are so willfully against coming to God, that He no longer draws them and gives up on them to a reprobate mind. (Rom 1)

I'll remember if you just offer the verse again without acknowledging the response, as you do elsewhere.

There is NO self-will in "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13),

True. It's the will of man freely given to do the will of God.

so self-will is described by Peter as disassociated from God yet Paul describes a person's will bound to God such that God causes the person to will for God's glory!

No Scripture speaks of a 'bound will', as though there is no choice to do or not to do.

We being bound to do the will of God, is not a bound will, but the free willingness to bind ourselves to Christ.

A word about your thoughts. It is written, "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares the LORD. 'For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

God's thoughts were not in Calvin's nor yours, while teaching predetermined no-freedom of will salvation.

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

I don't add to the Scripture free will, but teach it from what is written. You add to the Scripture no free will, then try to wring it out of Scripture's neck.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Thou art the man.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is evil.

True. the first one was Adam who freely overrode God's commandment to do his own will.

You need to make no mistake about this, self-will is damnation. Self-will is not the same thing as free-will.

True. Self-will is a result of God-given free will abused.