Verses we don't get

[SealedEternal]

(kriss;30591)
So then according to you Christ didnt die for all sin because then the pharaseeare not eligable for forgivness funny I did not read that anywhere that Christ death on the cross was conditional to some you can not dazzel me with your baloney I been doing this to long and know scripture to wellNews flash for you Christ died for all even the pharasee'sAll blashpemes of men thats all men will be forgiventhat is what the bible says No whether you agree or not thats what it says
Enough with the strawman arguments please. Christ died for the sins of all, but those who reject His Spirit are committing the unpardonable sin, because He Himself said that it is His Spirit that regenerates the hearts of men and makes us children of God. If we are saved by the washing of regeneration by God's Spirit, and it is His Spirit that brings us into the New Covenant by circumcizing our heart and writing God's Law on them, then conversely blaspheming His Spirit will assure that one is not saved and cannot inherit His Kingdom.
Verse 29 is not about the past its about Mark 13:8When the Holy spirit will speak throiugh the Elect if it be denied you are guilty of the unforgivable sin End of story all your scripture and ideas have to make the word contradictory or make Christs death conditionallearn something here instead of arguing a lost cause
Mark 13:8 "For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will also be famines. These things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.I have no idea whatsoever what you think this verse has do do with blaspheming God's Spirit, but obviously you have been indoctrinated into some sort of religious view that prevents you from taking God's Word for what it says. There is nothing anywhere in the text being discussed that even implies that it is referring to the "elect" , since I doubt that anyone here believes that the Pharisees were the "elect." They are told in no uncertain terms that they will not be forgiven for their rejection of God's Spirit, because it is through Him that mankind is reconciled to God.Christ's salvation is conditional to those who do not reject His Spirit as the Pharisees did. If you do then you have cut yourself off from being saved because it is only His Spirit that may reconcile you to God.SealedEternal

 

[Christina]

you are contradicting yourself All sins of blaspheme (this includes of the spirt it is not qualified you are saying it is and its not)will be forgiven you cant have it both ways Mark 13 :9-11 my error there

 

[SealedEternal]

(thesuperjag;30592)
Kriss, even though he did not answer my question, from reading from this debate, it looks like he even deny the fact that he didn't die for the seed of Satan. (aka Kenites - the sons of the first murderer, Cain)JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
According to your double negative, you're claiming I'm saying He died for the seed of Satan. What I said is that Christ died for all people who allow His Spirit to regenerate their hearts and minds. Children of Satan in scripture are all those who have not been born of God, so no I don't believe that He died for the children of Satan:1 John 3:4-12 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous.SealedEternal

 

[Jordan]

And there is no where in our posts did we say that the Pharisees are of elect...but they surely can repent for their sins. ALL means ALL as Christ died for ALL sins. *sigh*JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[SealedEternal]

(kriss;30595)
you are contradicting yourself All sins of blaspheme (this includes of the spirt it is not qualified you are saying it is and its not)will be forgiven you cant have it both ways Mark 13 :9-11 my error there
You're trying to create a contradiction that isn't in your text, so that you can bring in your Theology to explain this contradiction that you yourself created. Nobody reading scripture ever came to the conclusion that when Jesus told the Pharisees that they would not be forgiven their rejection of His Spirit, that this was actually referring to the "elect." One must force their own Theology into the text to come to such conclusion, and it actually contradicts the context of the text itself.SealedEternal

 

[SealedEternal]

(thesuperjag;30597)
And there is no where in our posts did we say that the Pharisees are of elect...but they surely can repent for their sins. ALL means ALL as Christ died for ALL sins. *sigh*JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
No, HE says all except the blaspheming of His Spirit which is what the Pharisees were doing.SealedEternal

 

[SealedEternal]

(kriss;30595)
you are contradicting yourself All sins of blaspheme (this includes of the spirt it is not qualified you are saying it is and its not)will be forgiven you cant have it both ways Mark 13 :9-11 my error there
No, you're arguing with Jesus because He said that those who blaspheme His Spirit will NOT be forgiven. It is you that is trying to have it both ways to try to make His Word fit a Theology that it won't.SealedEternal

 

[Christina]

No it is you who reading what is not there and accusing me28I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men ALL SINS AND BLASHPHEMIES where am I creating this what part do you not understand ALLALL MEANS ALL there is no qulification if you are a man in the flesh under Grace ALLALL ALL blashemies will be forgiven will be forgiven them. Verse 29 is not talking of average men nor pharasees it is talking of a particular type of men that the holy spirit/ghost will come on this only happens once in the future and that is Mark 13:9-11

 

[Jordan]

(SealedEternal;30596)
(thesuperjag;30592)
Kriss, even though he did not answer my question, from reading from this debate, it looks like he even deny the fact that he didn't die for the seed of Satan. (aka Kenites - the sons of the first murderer, Cain)JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
According to your double negative, you're claiming I'm saying He died for the seed of Satan. What I said is that Christ died for all people who allow His Spirit to regenerate their hearts and minds. Children of Satan in scripture are all those who have not been born of God, so no I don't believe that He died for the children of Satan:1 John 3:4-12 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous.SealedEternalFirst off, I didn't say that you said that Christ did not die for all people. I said It looks like it. How is it you are twisting my statement as well? If I want to make a claim...actually thank you for making a statement that even contradicts more scriptures in the bible. You are so deceived so very badly.John 4:42 - And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.I John 4:14 - And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.II Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[SealedEternal]

(kriss;30601)
No it is you who reading what is not there and accusing me28I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men ALL SINS AND BLASHPHEMIES where am I creating this what part do you not understand ALLALL MEANS ALL there is no qulification if you are a man in the flesh under Grace ALLALL ALL blashemies will be forgiven will be forgiven them. Verse 29 is not talking of average men nor pharasees it is talking of a particular type of men that the holy spirit/ghost will come on this only happens once in the future and that is Mark 9-11
Your whole argument is based on the false assumption that Jesus was contradicting Himself, so that you can claim that we need you to explain to us how your Theology fixes the contradiction. It's a false paradigm. The reality is that He never contradicted Himself in the first place, and was simply qualifying His statement that all sin is forgivable, with the statement that blasphemy against his Spirit isn't.As I've already shown from scripture, salvation is being saved from our sin through the regeneration of God's Spirit, who writes His Laws upon our hearts and minds so that we become His children and thus heirs to His Kingdom. Therefore if you blaspheme His Spirit, there is no other way to be forgiven. It's not a complicated concept, and Jesus doesn't contradict himself.SealedEternal

 

[SealedEternal]

(thesuperjag;30602)
First off, I didn't say that you said that Christ did not die for all people. I said It looks like it.
Let's not play games with semantics here. If you say "It looks like" then you are saying it.
How is it you are twisting my statement as well? If I want to make a claim...actually thank you for making a statement that even contradicts more scriptures in the bible. You are so deceived so very badly.John 4:42 - And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.I John 4:14 - And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
And that is qualified throughout the Bible saying that despite the fact that He died for all, most of us will reject him and be cast into the Lake of Fire. You have to put things in their proper context.SealedEternal

 

[Christina]

No it isnt thats my whole point Jesus never contradicts himself nor does Gods word it is you who are claiming the contradiction you are the one says its not all even though it says all you are the one who doesnt get it THERE IS NO CONTRADICTIONS IN THE WORDYOU ARE PLAYING GAMES YOU KEEP DOING WHAT YOU ARE ACCUSING ME OFAll sins of blasheme will be forgiven (THATS IT ALL OF THEM)the next verse is not about normal men nor this perod of timethat is not a contradiction this is what it is talking about29 speaks of blasheme of the Holy spirit/Ghost when were we just told in the prior verses that would happen??Mark 139 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. 10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.THIS IS THE EVENT VERSE 29 is talking about this is the Elect who do not follow antichrist that do not take the mark

 

[SealedEternal]

(kriss;30605)
No it isnt thats my whole point Jesus never contradicts himself nor does Gods word it is you who are claiming the contradiction you are the one says its not all even though it says all you are the one who doesnt get it THERE IS NO CONTRADICTIONS IN THE WORDYOU ARE PLAYING GAMES YOU KEEP DOING WHAT YOU ARE ACCUSING ME OF
It is YOU that claimed there was a contradiction there. I NEVER said that, and I don't see a contradiction in saying "ALL" and then qualifying it with a claim that there is ONE exception. Your whole Theology is based on creating a contradiction in the text that doesn't exist.
All sins of blasheme will be forgiven (THATS IT ALL OF THEM)
Matthew 12:31 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, BUT BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE SPIRIT SHALL NOT be forgiven.His statement is qualified saying that denying HIS SPIRIT will deny you the entrance into the New Covenant and a relationship with Him, which means that you will die in your sins.SealedEternal

 

[Christina]

AND WHEN CAN ONE DENY THE HOLY SPIRIT ???????????????????ONLY WHEN IT IS TO COME UPON YOU AND WHEN ARE WE TOLD THAT WILL HAPPEN???????????MARK 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.IT CAN NOT HAPPEN NOW BECAUSE WE ARE STILL UNDER GRACE AND ALL OUR BLASHPEMES WILLBE FORGIVENwhat is so hard to understand about this???

 

[John]

This looks like, you guys are just not getting each other.I think what Sealed means is, To reject Christ is blasphemy of the holy spirit.The Pharisees were guilty of this, they were guilty of blasphemy of the holy spirit, by rejecting Jesus and his works. There is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness without Christ, without Christ your sins are unforgivable, but when you chose Christ your sins are forgivenunforgivable in this verse, does not mean they can never be forgiven. It is only stating,that without Christ our sins are unforgivableSo the pharisees at that time were guilty of blasphemy of the holy spirit, (unforgivable of their sins for they were rejecting Christ) but this does not mean that they didn't repent at some point and receive Christ and then be forgivenThis is why there is no contradiction. We may not all agree but I hope I was able to help

 

[SealedEternal]

(kriss;30609)
You are so wrong Please explain to me how an unforgivable sin can be committed while we are under Grace and Christ died for all sins if you do not have an answer to this question do bother answering this is YOUR contradiction you want to believe this is just the holy spirit in a general sense Yet we are told this sin is unforgivable the entire New testament teachs all sin is forgivableIf you dont have an answer for your condradiction then drop it
It is a false pretext to say you are under His grace when you are not His child. Only those who have been born of Him by his Spirit are his children, and only His children are under His grace.SealedEternal

 

[Christina]

John 4:42 - And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.I John 4:14 - And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.II Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[SealedEternal]

Those statements are all true, as well as the ones that say that only the few overcome and are born of God, while the many will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire for rejecting Christ and His Spirit. He desires our salvation, but unfortunately most people reject Him.SealedEternal

 

[SealedEternal]

(John;30612)
This looks like, you guys are just not getting each other.I think what Sealed means is, To reject Christ is blasphemy of the holy spirit.The Pharisees were guilty of this, they were guilty of blasphemy of the holy spirit, by rejecting Jesus and his works. There is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness without Christ, without Christ your sins are unforgivable, but when you chose Christ your sins are forgivenunforgivable in this verse, does not mean they can never be forgiven. It is only stating,that without Christ our sins are unforgivableSo the pharisees at that time were guilty of blasphemy of the holy spirit, (unforgivable of their sins for they were rejecting Christ) but this does not mean that they didn't repent at some point and receive Christ and then be forgivenThis is why there is no contradiction. We may not all agree but I hope I was able to help
That's basically what I meant except that salvation isn't "choosing Christ" but rather being born of Him through the regeneration of His Spirit. There is a difference because as He said in His analogy of the two paths, there are many who accept Him and call Him Lord, Lord with their mouths, but only a few who find the narrow way to eternal life and become His children.SealedEternal

 

[His By Grace]

What an exchange going on here! Although it's informative in some ways, I'd like to put in a friendly reminder. Let's look at James Ch. 3, verses 14-18, so we can put on our spiritual armor today. It says, "But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom is not from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable,gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteouness is sown in peace by those who make peace." I didn't choose this, I just happened to be reading that this morning and it seems to apply here somewhat. We all need to remember, first and foremost, that our jobs as Christians are to love one another, walk humbly before the Lord, and even when we don't agree, we shouldn't bash each other or act as if our views are the only acceptable ones. I like to present what I think as my own view, but I do like to back it up with scripture. The Holy Spirit works on our friends/ aquaintances to convict and convince. I will say that the Pharisees were judged ahead of time because in Matthew 23:33, Jesus basically tells them they won't escape hell. That is scriptural. I do agree with you for the most part, Sealed Eternal. But if Kriss wants to think the way she does it doesn't bother me. She just needs to realize it's her interpretation and it's okay. The Lord seeks to save everyone under the new covenant. Whosoever means anyone to me that will come (reference to John 3:16) or otherwise why should we share Christ? Ya'll have a blessed day and smile:)