Unitarianism vs Trinitarianism

[Matthias]

You would know where to find Trinitarians who disagree with what I posted better than I would.

I think I do but I’m not happy about it.

It is good to provide opposing viewpoints but I'm trying to support my position.

Shouldn’t you look at and be aware of the trinitarian arguments against your position?

I’ve looked at and am aware of unitarian arguments (as well as binitarian and trinitarian, to say nothing of the arguments of other groups) against mine.

Jesus himself, as I’ve mentioned on several other occasions, is the decisive factor for me. If it could be demonstrated that Jesus is a trinitarian then I would be persuaded by that. In our conversations I’ve found confirmation that Jesus is a unitarian.

The average trinitarian isn’t aware that trinitarian scholarship makes concessions to my position.

Your providing reasons for my consideration - and for the consideration of our readers - why you think it is better to believe to believe in the Trinity (i.e. trinitarianism).

I’m providing reasons for your consideration - and for the consideration of our readers - why I think it’s better to believe only in the God of Jesus (i.e. Jewish unitary monotheism).

 

[RLT63]

I think I do but I’m not happy about it.



Shouldn’t you look at and be aware of the trinitarian arguments against your position?

I’ve looked at and am aware of unitarian arguments (as well as binitarian and trinitarian, to say nothing of the arguments of other groups) against mine.

Jesus himself, as I’ve mentioned on several other occasions, is the decisive factor for me. If it could be demonstrated that Jesus is a trinitarian then I would be persuaded by that. In our conversations I’ve found confirmation that Jesus is a unitarian.

The average trinitarian isn’t aware that trinitarian scholarship makes concessions to my position.

Your providing reasons for my consideration - and for the consideration of our readers - why you think it is better to believe to believe in the Trinity (i.e. trinitarianism).

I’m providing reasons for your consideration - and for the consideration of our readers - why I think it’s better to believe only in the God of Jesus (i.e. Jewish unitary monotheism).

I consistently find scripture that affirms the deity of Christ.

 

[Matthias]

I consistently find scripture that affirms the deity of Christ.

I understand that.

When I was a trinitarian, I consistently found what I was told was in scripture.

What I later found out, through studying church history and reading the early Church Fathers, is that those who told me what was in scripture had failed to properly train and equip me to know what is really there.

 

[Matthias]

There are many ways for a Jewish monotheist to support and defend Jewish monotheism. They didn’t tell me that in the trinitarian church I was raised in; nor did they tell me how to defend trinitarianism. What the church neglected, school education provided.

One of the more unique and effective ways to defend Jewish monotheism is by appealing to the concessions made in and by trinitarian commentary. It doesn’t necessarily harm trinitarianism; it properly places trinitarianism on the historical scale.

 

[RLT63]

Comparing Titles or Acts (Yahweh with Jesus)[12]​
Of God​	Mutual Title or Act​	Of Jesus​
Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 40:28​	Creator​	John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2,10​
Isaiah 41:4; 44:6; 48:12​	First and Last​	Revelation 1:17; 2:8; 22:13,16​
Isaiah 45:22; 43:3;11; Hosea 13:4​	Savior​	John 4:42; Titus 2:13​
1 Samuel 2:6; Psalm 119 (11 places)​	Gives Life​	John 5:21; 14:6; 11:25; 1 Corinthians 15:45​
Genesis 18:25; Joel 3:12​	Judge​	Matthew 25:31-46; John 5:22; Acts 10:42; 2 Timothy 4:1​
Psalm 27:1; Isaiah 60:19-20​	Light​	John 8:12​
Exodus 3:14​	I AM​	John 8:58 (cf. 18:5,6)​
Psalm 23:1; Ezekiel 34:15​	Shepherd​	John 10:11; Hebrews 13:20; 1 Peter 2:25; 5:4​
Psalm 139:7-12; 1 Kings 8:27​	Omnipresent​	Matthew 28:20​
Daniel 2:20-23; Job 12:13​	Wise​	Colossians 2:3​
Hosea 13:14; Psalm 130:7​	Redeemer​	Revelation 5:9; Ephesians 1:7; Galatians 3:13​
Psalm 18:2; 95:1​	Rock​	1 Corinthians 10:4​
Psalm 148:5​	Creator of Angels​	Colossians 1:16​
Malachi 3:6​	Unchanging​	Hebrews 13:8​
Psalm 148:2​	Worshipped by Angels​	Hebrews 1:6​
Throughout OT​	Addressed in Prayer​	Acts 7:59-60​
Jeremiah 31:34; Psalm 130:4​	Forgiver of Sins​	Matthew 9:2-7; Mark 2:5-7; Luke 7:48; Acts 5:31​
Psalm 135:6,7; Daniel 4:35​	Controller​	Ephesians 1:22; Colossians 1:17; Hebrews 1:3​
Hosea 2:16; Isaiah 62:5​	Bridegroom​	Mark 2:19; Revelation 21:2 (cf. Ephesians 5:22ff)​
Psalm 86:6-7​	Answers Prayer​	John 14:13-41​
Genesis 17:1​	Almighty​	Revelation 1:8​
Deuteronomy 32:4​	Righteous One​	Acts 3:14​
Revelation 22:13; Lord God​	Alpha and Omega​	Revelation 1:8, Jesus​
Isaiah 6:3​	Holy One​	Luke 4:34; Acts 2:27; 3:14​
Isaiah 7:14​	Immanuel (Emmanuel)​	Matthew 1:23​
Psalm 31:5​	Truth​	John 14:6​
Deuteronomy 10:17; Psalm 136:3​	Lord of Lords​	Revelation 19:16​
Isaiah 40:3​	Way Prepared​	Matthew 3:3; John 1:23​
Isaiah 42:8(cf.48:11)​	Glory of God​	John 17;1,5; 1 Corinthians 2:8​
Isaiah 45:23​	Confessed as Lord​	Philippians 2:9-11​
Psalm 2:20; 115:3​	All Powerful​	Philippians 3:20,21 Matthew 9:26​

 

[Matthias]

Comparing Titles or Acts (Yahweh with Jesus)[12]​
Of God​	Mutual Title or Act​	Of Jesus​
Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 40:28​	Creator​	John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2,10​
Isaiah 41:4; 44:6; 48:12​	First and Last​	Revelation 1:17; 2:8; 22:13,16​
Isaiah 45:22; 43:3;11; Hosea 13:4​	Savior​	John 4:42; Titus 2:13​
1 Samuel 2:6; Psalm 119 (11 places)​	Gives Life​	John 5:21; 14:6; 11:25; 1 Corinthians 15:45​
Genesis 18:25; Joel 3:12​	Judge​	Matthew 25:31-46; John 5:22; Acts 10:42; 2 Timothy 4:1​
Psalm 27:1; Isaiah 60:19-20​	Light​	John 8:12​
Exodus 3:14​	I AM​	John 8:58 (cf. 18:5,6)​
Psalm 23:1; Ezekiel 34:15​	Shepherd​	John 10:11; Hebrews 13:20; 1 Peter 2:25; 5:4​
Psalm 139:7-12; 1 Kings 8:27​	Omnipresent​	Matthew 28:20​
Daniel 2:20-23; Job 12:13​	Wise​	Colossians 2:3​
Hosea 13:14; Psalm 130:7​	Redeemer​	Revelation 5:9; Ephesians 1:7; Galatians 3:13​
Psalm 18:2; 95:1​	Rock​	1 Corinthians 10:4​
Psalm 148:5​	Creator of Angels​	Colossians 1:16​
Malachi 3:6​	Unchanging​	Hebrews 13:8​
Psalm 148:2​	Worshipped by Angels​	Hebrews 1:6​
Throughout OT​	Addressed in Prayer​	Acts 7:59-60​
Jeremiah 31:34; Psalm 130:4​	Forgiver of Sins​	Matthew 9:2-7; Mark 2:5-7; Luke 7:48; Acts 5:31​
Psalm 135:6,7; Daniel 4:35​	Controller​	Ephesians 1:22; Colossians 1:17; Hebrews 1:3​
Hosea 2:16; Isaiah 62:5​	Bridegroom​	Mark 2:19; Revelation 21:2 (cf. Ephesians 5:22ff)​
Psalm 86:6-7​	Answers Prayer​	John 14:13-41​
Genesis 17:1​	Almighty​	Revelation 1:8​
Deuteronomy 32:4​	Righteous One​	Acts 3:14​
Revelation 22:13; Lord God​	Alpha and Omega​	Revelation 1:8, Jesus​
Isaiah 6:3​	Holy One​	Luke 4:34; Acts 2:27; 3:14​
Isaiah 7:14​	Immanuel (Emmanuel)​	Matthew 1:23​
Psalm 31:5​	Truth​	John 14:6​
Deuteronomy 10:17; Psalm 136:3​	Lord of Lords​	Revelation 19:16​
Isaiah 40:3​	Way Prepared​	Matthew 3:3; John 1:23​
Isaiah 42:8(cf.48:11)​	Glory of God​	John 17;1,5; 1 Corinthians 2:8​
Isaiah 45:23​	Confessed as Lord​	Philippians 2:9-11​
Psalm 2:20; 115:3​	All Powerful​	Philippians 3:20,21 Matthew 9:26​

Do you understand why comparing titles of Yahweh with titles of Jesus isn’t persuasive to those whose God is Yahweh alone?

 

[RLT63]

Do you understand why comparing titles of Yahweh with titles of Jesus isn’t persuasive to those whose God is Yahweh alone?

Do you understand why it is to those who believe Jesus is God?

 

[RLT63]

Old Testament Proof-Texts for Christ’s Divinity​
Romans 10:9; 13​	Joel 2:32​	Usage​
9If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved… (Romans 10:9) 13for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED (Romans 10:13).”​	And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD (Yahweh) will be delivered (Joel 2:32).​	The prophet Joel says that we need to call on the name of Yahweh to be saved. Paul says that this refers to Jesus Christ, who is kurios. Romans 10:9 explains that we specifically need to call on the name of Jesus, while Joel says that we need to call on Yahweh.​
Hebrews 1:8; 10​	Psalm 45:6; 102:25​	Usage​
8But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD (Greek theos), IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM… (Hebrews 1:8) 10And, “YOU, LORD (Greek kurios), IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS (Hebrews 1:10).​	6Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom… (Psalm 45:6) 25“Of old You [Yahweh –see context] founded the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands (Psalm 102:25)​	These two verses combine the terms “Lord” (kurios) and “God” (theos) demonstrating that Christ is distinct from the Father, and yet, fully God. Verse 8 describes the Son, who is said to be “God” (theos) and verse 12 refers to the Son as “Lord” (kurios). The author of Hebrews quotes Psalm 45:6 and Psalm 102:25. Both of these verses refer to Yahweh God. Psalm 45 uses the word Yahweh and Psalm 102 is addressed to God, even though it doesn’t name him as Yahweh.​
Philippians 2:10​	Isaiah 45:23​	Usage​
10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth (Philippians 2:10).​	23“I have sworn by Myself, the word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, that to Me (Yahweh) every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance (Isaiah 45:23)​	Paul says that “every knee shall bow” to Christ, and yet, its original context says that “every knee shall bow” to Yahweh (Isaiah 45:23).​
Isaiah 6:3​	John 12:41​	Usage​
And one called out to another and said, “Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts, the whole earth is full of His glory.”​	These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him [Jesus].​	While Isaiah saw Yahweh, John explains that he saw Jesus.​
Zechariah 12:10​	John 19:37​	Usage​
“They will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.”​	And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.”​	Zechariah claims that Yahweh will be pierced, but John interprets this to refer to Jesus.​
Micah 5:2​	Matthew 2:6​	Usage​
“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity.”​	For out of you shall come forth a Ruler who will shepherd My people Israel.​	Micah claims that this figures will be eternal.

 

[Matthias]

Do you understand why it is to those who believe Jesus is God?

Yes. I’ve been in their shoes.

So, do you understand why comparing titles of Yahweh with titles of Jesus isn’t persuasive to those whose God is Yahweh alone?

 

[Matthias]

Old Testament Proof-Texts for Christ’s Divinity​
Romans 10:9; 13​	Joel 2:32​	Usage​
9If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved… (Romans 10:9) 13for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED (Romans 10:13).”​	And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD (Yahweh) will be delivered (Joel 2:32).​	The prophet Joel says that we need to call on the name of Yahweh to be saved. Paul says that this refers to Jesus Christ, who is kurios. Romans 10:9 explains that we specifically need to call on the name of Jesus, while Joel says that we need to call on Yahweh.​
Hebrews 1:8; 10​	Psalm 45:6; 102:25​	Usage​
8But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD (Greek theos), IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM… (Hebrews 1:8) 10And, “YOU, LORD (Greek kurios), IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS (Hebrews 1:10).​	6Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom… (Psalm 45:6) 25“Of old You [Yahweh –see context] founded the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands (Psalm 102:25)​	These two verses combine the terms “Lord” (kurios) and “God” (theos) demonstrating that Christ is distinct from the Father, and yet, fully God. Verse 8 describes the Son, who is said to be “God” (theos) and verse 12 refers to the Son as “Lord” (kurios). The author of Hebrews quotes Psalm 45:6 and Psalm 102:25. Both of these verses refer to Yahweh God. Psalm 45 uses the word Yahweh and Psalm 102 is addressed to God, even though it doesn’t name him as Yahweh.​
Philippians 2:10​	Isaiah 45:23​	Usage​
10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth (Philippians 2:10).​	23“I have sworn by Myself, the word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, that to Me (Yahweh) every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance (Isaiah 45:23)​	Paul says that “every knee shall bow” to Christ, and yet, its original context says that “every knee shall bow” to Yahweh (Isaiah 45:23).​
Isaiah 6:3​	John 12:41​	Usage​
And one called out to another and said, “Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts, the whole earth is full of His glory.”​	These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him [Jesus].​	While Isaiah saw Yahweh, John explains that he saw Jesus.​
Zechariah 12:10​	John 19:37​	Usage​
“They will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.”​	And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.”​	Zechariah claims that Yahweh will be pierced, but John interprets this to refer to Jesus.​
Micah 5:2​	Matthew 2:6​	Usage​
“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity.”​	For out of you shall come forth a Ruler who will shepherd My people Israel.​	Micah claims that this figures will be eternal.

Do you understand that you’re using the texts in an attempt to prove something which the NT writers used in order to prove something else?

 

[RLT63]

The NT authors identify Jesus in the most persuasive way: They refer to Christ as theos or “God.” You might recognize the Greek word theos in our modern word theology, which is the “study of God.” Robert Bowman writes, “The singular theos is used of God about 1,400 times in the New Testament, and of a false god only six times, always clearly so from the context (Acts 7:43; 12:22; 28:6; 2 Cor. 4:4; Phil. 3:9; 2 Thess. 2:7).”[15]

Remember that the NT authors unpacked much of the theological content of Christ’s life, death, and resurrection. Therefore, it shouldn’t surprise us to see that they make the most explicit declarations of Christ’s deity.[16] Remember, the epistles were not a theological embellishment of the gospel accounts, because they were historically written before the gospels.

Colossians 1:15-19; 2:9​

15 [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things have been created through Him and for Him.

17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

19For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him…

9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.

For a full exegesis of this passage, see comments on Colossians 1:15.

John 1:1-3; 14; 18​

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2He was in the beginning with God.

3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

18No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

For a full exegesis of this passage, see comments on John 1:1.

Philippians 2:5-8​

5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,

6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

For a full exegesis of this passage, see comments on Philippians 2:6 and Philippians 2:7.

1 John 5:20​

And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

For a full exegesis of this passage, see comments on 1 John 5:20.

Titus 2:13​

Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.

For a full exegesis of this passage, see comments on Titus 2:13.

2 Peter 1:1​

Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

For a full exegesis of this passage, see comments on 2 Peter 1:1.

Romans 9:5​

(NLT) Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.

For a full exegesis of this passage, see comments on Romans 9:5.

Luke 8:39​

[Jesus said] “Return to your house and describe what great things God has done for you.” So he went away, proclaiming throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done for him.

Jesus’ name is literally replaced with God’s title, equating Jesus with God.

Acts 20:28​

Shepherd the church of God [theos] which He purchased with His own blood.

Paul says that God purchased the church with his own blood. God the Father did not bleed his blood; God the Son did. If this passage is referring to God the Father, then when did God bleed? However, this passage does contain many textual variants, so “in light of the possibilities, one cannot be dogmatic on the passage.”[17]

 

[RLT63]

Yes. I’ve been in their shoes.

So, do you understand why comparing titles of Yahweh with titles of Jesus isn’t persuasive to those whose God is Yahweh alone?

I think only those who haven't made up their minds can be persuaded.

 

[Matthias]

I think only those who haven't made up their minds can be persuaded.

I don’t. Is this your answer to the question I asked?

 

[Matthias]

The NT authors identify Jesus in the most persuasive way: They refer to Christ as theos or “God.” You might recognize the Greek word theos in our modern word theology, which is the “study of God.” Robert Bowman writes, “The singular theos is used of God about 1,400 times in the New Testament, and of a false god only six times, always clearly so from the context (Acts 7:43; 12:22; 28:6; 2 Cor. 4:4; Phil. 3:9; 2 Thess. 2:7).”[15]

Remember that the NT authors unpacked much of the theological content of Christ’s life, death, and resurrection. Therefore, it shouldn’t surprise us to see that they make the most explicit declarations of Christ’s deity.[16] Remember, the epistles were not a theological embellishment of the gospel accounts, because they were historically written before the gospels.

Colossians 1:15-19; 2:9​

15 [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things have been created through Him and for Him.

17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

19For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him…

9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.

For a full exegesis of this passage, see comments on Colossians 1:15.

John 1:1-3; 14; 18​

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2He was in the beginning with God.

3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

18No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

For a full exegesis of this passage, see comments on John 1:1.

Philippians 2:5-8​

5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,

6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

For a full exegesis of this passage, see comments on Philippians 2:6 and Philippians 2:7.

1 John 5:20​

And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

For a full exegesis of this passage, see comments on 1 John 5:20.

Titus 2:13​

Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.

For a full exegesis of this passage, see comments on Titus 2:13.

2 Peter 1:1​

Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

For a full exegesis of this passage, see comments on 2 Peter 1:1.

Romans 9:5​

(NLT) Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.

For a full exegesis of this passage, see comments on Romans 9:5.

Luke 8:39​

[Jesus said] “Return to your house and describe what great things God has done for you.” So he went away, proclaiming throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done for him.

Jesus’ name is literally replaced with God’s title, equating Jesus with God.

Acts 20:28​

Shepherd the church of God [theos] which He purchased with His own blood.

Paul says that God purchased the church with his own blood. God the Father did not bleed his blood; God the Son did. If this passage is referring to God the Father, then when did God bleed? However, this passage does contain many textual variants, so “in light of the possibilities, one cannot be dogmatic on the passage.”[17]

1400 occurrences, and not one of them is speaking about the Trinity.

 

[RLT63]

1400 occurrences, and not one of them is speaking about the Trinity.

Theos Meaning - Greek Lexicon | New Testament (KJV)

Discover the original meaning of Theos in the Bible using the New Testament Greek Lexicon - King James Version. Learn the audio pronunciation, word origin and usage in the Bible, plus scripture verse references of Theos.

www.biblestudytools.com

​

 

[Matthias]

I don’t find any of the arguments presented as being favorable to identifying the Trinity as the God of Israel. What I do find interesting is the way the argument is being delivered. Knowingly or unknowingly, the presentation demonstrates the issue (there is no statement in scripture identifying the Trinity in any shape, form or fashion as thre God of Israel) and the path (a piecemeal approach which took hundreds of years to work out) which the early church went down as it distanced itself from the faith of those who came before.

 

[Matthias]

Theos Meaning - Greek Lexicon | New Testament (KJV)

Discover the original meaning of Theos in the Bible using the New Testament Greek Lexicon - King James Version. Learn the audio pronunciation, word origin and usage in the Bible, plus scripture verse references of Theos.

www.biblestudytools.com

​

Thanks. That won’t help your case - if it did, church history wouldn’t be what it is - but it does support mine.

Occurrences which identify God as the Trinity?

0.

 

[RLT63]

Thanks. That won’t help your case - if it did, church history wouldn’t be what it is - but it does support mine.

I'll let people who read the thread judge for themselves

 

[Matthias]

I'll let people who read the thread judge for themselves

I read it. I’ve also read church history. This isn’t complicated.

If there was an occurrence of the word which identified the one God as the Trinity we all would have quoted it. It’s not there. That’s why it took the church hundreds of years following the times of the apostles to arrive at the teaching.

 

[RLT63]

I'm only making the case for the deity of Christ. Where you go from there is your decision. It leads me to believe in the Trinity. It leads some to believe in Oneness. Some reject it altogether.