Understanding what is the "Abomination of Desolation".

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CTK

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There is only one individual in Daniel 9 identified as a prince.
He is Messiah the Prince.
The grammatical antecdent/referent of "the prince" in Daniel 9:26 is "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25.
The people of Messiah the Prince were the Roman armies (Luke 21:20, Matthew 24:15) who were His servants of judgment, destruction, and desolation upon apostate Israel.
Further, the grammatical antecedent/referent of the "he's" in Daniel 9:27 is "the prince" in Daniel 9:26, i.e. Messiah the Prince".
It was Messiah the Prince who confirmed the Covenant with many. Daniel 9:27, Matthew 26:28
It was Messiah the Prince who caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease, at Calvary.

The passage is all about Messiah the Prince.
Well, I do thank you for your response... and I am more than happy that my interpretations are in line with yours. Just about 99.99% of today's interpreters have accepted the Jesuit's futurist interpretation that "he" in 9:27a is "he" some mythical surpernatural boogeyman who will come some 2000 years in the future to arrange some kind of an agreement with Israel only to reng on it within 3.5 years and this will bring in the Great tribulation. All complete nonsense that was intentionally created by the papacy in the 16th century for the purpose of removing the label and identify of the papacy as the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8. And, unfortunately, given their wealth and breath of power, they have taught this false interpretation to the children and their children .... and so on for so many generations.

But regarding the "prince" (small p) in verse 26, I do not believe this is referring to the Lord. First, verses 26 and 27 are the two destructive verses. Within these verses, we find the destruction of the Messiah, His city and the sanctuary. The Temple and everything within Israel will be destroyed in 70 AD. It will be destroyed by the "people" of the prince who is to come, not the people of the Prince (Messiah). The Messiah was already crucified and had returned to His Father in heaven. But 40 years later, Titus would lead the Roman army to destroy everything. But they would represent the "people" who would destroy it, not the prince.
These people who were within the pagan Roman empire would be the same people who would become "people" of papal Rome after pagan Rome, the 4th beast kingdom was slain and its body destroyed (7:11). This "prince" (small p) would come much later than the destruction in 70 AD.

There are only two verses within 9:24-27 that mention the word "Messiah." One is in the "restorative" verse which discloses the arrival of the Messiah the Prince (25), and the second is in verse 26, where Daniel only uses the term "Messiah." And this is indeed purposeful. From verse 25 to 26 we move from the "restorative" to the "destructive" verse. In 25, God sees Jesus as Messiah the Prince, but in 26, He sees or identifies Jesus only as the "Messiah." This is because the cross took place between these two verses. When, Jesus took on the sin of the world, God would identify Him only as the Messiah. Before He took on the sin of the world, He referred to Him as Messiah the Prince.

This can also be seen when Daniel records the proper name of Jerusalem in verse 25 (restorative verse), but in verse 26, He will not use the proper name but refer to it as the "city and the sanctuary." After the cross, the Messiah fulfilled His mission as the High Priest, the Temple, the perfect Sacrifice., thus, the physical structures and the city , the walls and streets,etc., no longer held their holiyness or would ever house the presence of God ever again. Now, God would allow their destruction in 40 years since they were simply structures...

So, please consider this "prince" as a small (p) who would come after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD --- after the Messiah was crucified. The pagan people of Imperial Rome were not the "people of the Messiah who is to come."

Please let me know your thoughts,,
 

covenantee

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And thank you for your response.

Well, I do thank you for your response... and I am more than happy that my interpretations are in line with yours. Just about 99.99% of today's interpreters have accepted the Jesuit's futurist interpretation that "he" in 9:27a is "he" some mythical surpernatural boogeyman who will come some 2000 years in the future to arrange some kind of an agreement with Israel only to reng on it within 3.5 years and this will bring in the Great tribulation. All complete nonsense that was intentionally created by the papacy in the 16th century for the purpose of removing the label and identify of the papacy as the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8. And, unfortunately, given their wealth and breath of power, they have taught this false interpretation to the children and their children .... and so on for so many generations.
So true. The contortion of Christ into antichrist in 9:27a is patent blasphemy, which makes the Darby/Scofield dispensational futurism which perpetuates it especially egregious.

Before we delve in further, how do you view the grammar? For example, the sole qualifying antecedent/referent of "the prince" in verse 26 is "the Messiah the Prince" in verse 25; which thus identifies the prince as Messiah.

Note that "P/p" capitalization/uncapitalization is not consistent and thus not reliable. For example:
Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood

Daniel 9:26 in the 1611 KJV
And after threescore and two weekes, shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himselfe, and the people of the Prince that shall come...

Thanks again.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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He did come riding on a donkey at the END OF HIS MINISTRY. This would be 3.5 years after He began His ministry. That would be the Passover week.
Yes. But thats not what Dan 9 says. Dan 9 says he will come, that is when he came, there is no 3.5 years of anything.
Don't know about any gaps elsewhere, but in Daniel, the prophecy is for a 490 consecutive year prophecy...
Well thats a good idea. but it is not factual. once again, the gap is in the prophecy.


It starts and ends at the same time as the 4th and final Great Jubilee Cycle. Again, the last 7 years of the prophecy were specifically set aside for the coming of the Messiah and His mission (9:24) to fulfill. He also set up His church, and would send His holy spirit on Pentecost. This last week He would:
Thats not what Daniel 9 is about.. When you insert the church, you have misrepresented what Gabriel was telling daniel concerning daniels people.
1) travel throughout Israel preaching the Good News - began after His baptism in the Jordan on the first day of the 70th week.
2) He would preach for 3.5 years,
3) He would come to Jerusalem riding on a donkey during the 4th Passover Festival - His last when He would be crucified.
4) If you notice in 9:24 -27, everything is tied together:
a) the last 7 years of the prophecy He would fulfill the 6 requirements,
b) He would be cut off (crucified) in the "midst of the week," (last week of the prophecy,
c) He would confirm the New Covenant with His people DURING (NOT FOR) this same 7 year period,
d) He shall bring an end to the sacrifices and offerings - as a result of His perfect sacrifice, it would do away with any further need for animal sacrifices or offerings. Now, the Temple, the Sanctuary, the Levitical ceremonies, the four spring feast days --- all of these would now be fulfilled by the Messiah. They were only a "type and shadow" of His coming. They could never be destroyed by man despite the complete destruction by the Babylonians. God would restore them as outlined in the 70 week prophecy because they were never meant to be destroyed only fulfilled.
This is in error. and has nothing to do with Daniel 9
Once again, You need to study daniel 9 as a whole





No, Daniel is not written in a linear or chronolgolical manner. I
Yes it is
have not yet spent the time to do so, but I believe these four verses are written in a "chiastic" structure. There is no time separating the 69th year from the 70th year.
This is not even shown in the text. As I will show you
It is the Messiah who will confirm the covenant with His people...
No it is not. The messiah did not confirm any covenant for 1 week.
not the "prince who is to come." Only God enters into a covenant with His people and this New Covenant is confirmed by His crucifixion and the covenant is the one mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
It is never called a new covenant or any kind of covenant, it is called a covenent which the future prince confirms for 1 week. a covenant he himself breaks in the middle of the week. Jesus did not break any covenant

The "prince who is to come" represents a future power that will come" well after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. It is the "people of the prince who is to come" who will destroy the Temple in 70 AD - that would be the pagan Roman army lead by Titus. These are "the people of the coming prince." The coming prince is the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 who will come to power after pagan Rome is slain and its body destroyed (7:11). Thus, the people who were ruled by pagan Rome will now become people of the little horn who will replace pagan Rome with papal Rome. They will follow the false teachings of the little horn... he won't come to full power until after 500 AD.
He has not come into power yet. and he will be destroyed by Jesus at his return.

Here let me help you.. Here is daniel 9 as I see it, I do pray you read it, and if nothing else. Show me what you think or show me my error by explaining why in the text. I saw something wrong



Dan 9:
24: “Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,

And to anoint the Most Holy.

This is what will be fulfilled at the end of the 70 week period

1. Israel will end her transgressions and sins
2. Reconciliation will be made (this is the only thing Christ has done to date)
3. Bring in everlasting righteousness. During Christs reign, he will rule with a rod of Iron. there will be peace like this world has never seen, the OT says concerning Israel. they will not need to be taught, for everyone will know. and they will follow their king
4. To Seal up vision and prophecy - we still have much prophecy to be revealed yet.
5. To Anoint the most Holy. He will be sitting on David's throne as David was promise. and he will rule the world with a Rod of Iron.

25. “Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.


1. The command to restore was Given in Nehemiah 2. by king Artexerxes in the 20th year in the month of Nisan
2. It took 7 years to build jerusalem the city, including the wall.
3. The 62 weeks, Jerusalem was a city enslaved (troublesome times) by 3 gentile kings (media-Persia, Greece and Rome)
4. At the end of this time period. Messiah the prince will be introduced to jerusalem as its king (riding on a donkey)
5. The first 69 weeks are completed at this time. Nothing needs to be added or subtracted. it is complete.

After these events, alot of things happen.

26. “And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall [j]be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolation's are determined.

1. immediately following the entrance of messiah, he will be killed
2. After this, the people of the future prince will destroy the city and sanctuary. This happened in 70 AD, almost 40 years after messiah entered Jerusalem, so by definition, we already have a GAP
3. Jerusalem will be left desolate for a period of time which is determined but known only to God. THEN something will happen.. that will start the clock again.

27. Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”

1. He (the prince to come, who come out of the people who destroyed the city, or Rome, or some major empire from Europe. who is also the fourth beast of Daniel. or the toes of Iron and Clay) confirms some covenant with many for 1 Week (your final 7 years of the prophecy)
2. In the middle of that week (3.5 years) he will put an end to sacrifice and burnt offering by placing an abomination of desolation in the holy place on the wing of the temple.
3. This will continue until the consummation which again is determined, is poured out on the desolate
4. We know this ruler will be given power for 3.5 years
5. We know this time is called the time of great tribulation By Jesus himself (when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel standing in the Holy Place. let the ready understand...
5. We know at the end of this period. Jesus will return to the earth and destroy this prince and his kingdom, and set up his own kingdom.
6. more important, we are told that at this same time, Israel repents, God gathers them back together in their land (ezek 36) because they have repented, confessed their sins, and did what was required in Lev 26, and everything Gabriel said would happen in Dan 9 24 will have been fulfilled.
 

Eternally Grateful

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The church does not have a part in the 70 weeks, but the prophecy does tell us the city and the sanctuary will be destoryed. And that will take place in 70 AD. And it will be destroyed by the "people" of the "prince who is to come." Meaning, it is not Titus because he let the pagan Roman army to destroy everything. It is the "people" who will come to follow this "prince who is to come." And that is exactly what happened. Pagan Rome fell and was replaced by papal Rome and the little horn in 500 AD.
again, read my note on daniel 9

Pagan rome fell. but it will come back alive,

Jesus did nto come in 500 AD to destroy pagan rome and set up his kingdom..

You are close. you are not as far off as some,, I think you can see it if you look.
 

Eternally Grateful

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I am alittle lost ... not your fault.... What proof would you need for you to see a different interpretation than the one you currently have?
Show me in the whole passage from dan 9: 1 to dan 9: 27 anything that even closely resembles what you are saying
The most important question to ask might be ": do you think the prophecies in Daniel are written about the Jews, His city and their coming Messiah or the Jews, His city and some mythical and completely mythical antiChrist figure that was dreamed up by the RCC in the 16th century AD?
The catholic church did not dream up the beast coming out of the sea, who will be empowered by the dragan, who will be cast out of heaven, and bring his wrath to the earth during the great tribulation.
Please try to consider that all of chapter 9 is about God's plan of forgiveness with His people after their 70 year punishment in Babylon,
But its not. It is about an answer to daniels prayer concerning his people, his city and his sanctuary.. And the fact they have not yet repented..
and His revealing how He would fully restore both His people and His city over a 490 year consecutive period WITH it culminating in the arrival of the Messiah.
read the text please. all of it..
 

tailgator

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Let's see it.
You asked me I had showed him the temple.

I said

Your asking me if I lived 2000 years ago?​

No



Now how much you willing to bet?
I mean you have already said I lie when I told you no already.

You going to Apologize if I show you where I said the above,?
Or are you going to continue saying I lie about it?
 

covenantee

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You asked me I had showed him the temple.

I said

Your asking me if I lived 2000 years ago?​

No



Now how much you willing to bet?
I mean you have already said I lie when I told you no already.

You going to Apologize if I show you where I said the above,?
Or are you going to continue saying I lie about it?
I didn't ask for your evasions.

I asked for a link to your claim.

Which doesn't exist. :laughing:
 

tailgator

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covenantee

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tailgator

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Your asking me was I alive 2000 years ago?
No.

I'm one of Jesus students who sees prophecies being fulfilled in my lifetime.


Jesus has many disciples.Im one of them.
You claimed to be a disciple.

But you're not. You didn't come to Jesus "for to shew him the buildings of the temple". Matthew 24:1

Your claim was false.

Matthew 24:1 was/is about Jesus' twelve disciples.

Not you.

Matthew 24:15 was/is about Jesus' twelve disciples.

Not you.
 

tailgator

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Isaiah also wrote of the destructive power of the abomination that causes desolation and how it will melt away all Philistines.
This takes place after the king of Babylon has fallen.Yes,same Babylon in revelation.

Isaiah 14
Do not rejoice, all you Philistines,
that the rod that struck you is broken;
from the root of that snake will spring up a viper,
its fruit will be a darting, venomous serpent.
30 The poorest of the poor will find pasture,
and the needy will lie down in safety.
But your root I will destroy by famine;
it will slay your survivors.
31 Wail, you gate! Howl, you city!
Melt away, all you Philistines!
A cloud of smoke comes from the north,
and there is not a straggler in its ranks.
32 What answer shall be given
to the envoys of that nation?
“The Lord has established Zion,
and in her his afflicted people will find refuge.”
 

tailgator

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You claimed to be a disciple.

But you're not. You didn't come to Jesus "for to shew him the buildings of the temple". Matthew 24:1

Your claim was false.

Matthew 24:1 was/is about Jesus' twelve disciples.

Not you.

Matthew 24:15 was/is about Jesus' twelve disciples.

Not you.
You don't know what it means to be a student.