Unanswered Question Concerning Jesus' Deity

[Ronald David Bruno]

Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Two questions.

Who was it that "took upon him the form of a servant"?

And,

Considering that he "became obedient", does this mean that he was "not obedient" before becoming obedient?

Let's follow this through, can we?

Much love!

Like Adam, he was tested - only Adam failed the test and Jesus passed.
It was only fair and necessary for God to become a man, demonstrate His love and power, be tempted, suffer like a man, and die like one. It was the only real way we could experience Him up close and personal an then and for eternity.
I prefer a different translation for vs. 6
NASB
Who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.
Man still struggles to grasp this concept.

 

[JunChosen]

I prefer a different translation for vs. 6
NASB
Who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.
Man still struggles to grasp this concept.

And I will ante one up to the above as Isaiah 42:8 reads:
"I am the LORD (JEHOVAH): that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."

Yet Jesus in His prayer to His FATHER made a staggering claim as He said, "And now, O FATHER, glorify thou me with thy own self with the glory which I had with thee Before The World Was!!!" John 17:5

People say Jesus never claimed to be God, what then is the above if not a claim to deity!!!???

To God Be The Glory

 

[Aunty Jane]

And I will ante one up to the above as Isaiah 42:8 reads:
"I am the LORD (JEHOVAH): that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."

Yet Jesus in His prayer to His FATHER made a staggering claim as He said, "And now, O FATHER, glorify thou me with thy own self with the glory which I had with thee Before The World Was!!!" John 17:5

People say Jesus never claimed to be God, what then is the above if not a claim to deity!!!???

To God Be The Glory

It is nowhere near a claim to be deity....Jesus existed in his pre-human form because he was the “firstborn of all creation” (Colossians 1:15).....meaning that God produced (begat) his son as his first and only direct creation...this is what makes him “only begotten”.....the very “beginning” of his creative works. (Revelation 3:14) He was at his Father’s side in the whole creative process. (Proverbs 8:30-31) He is the “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26....but he is never called “the Creator”.

Jesus never once claimed to be deity and references to him as “theos” are never accompanied by the definite article, which was only used to identify Yahweh, who was his own God and Father....even in heaven. (Revelation 3:12)

John 1:1 in Greek, reads very differently to what it does in biased English translations, because one tiny word is omitted to give the impression that Jesus was “ho theos” (which is what the Greek language used for Yahweh).......when that was never the case. Calling Jesus “theos” was simply confirming his divinity....not his deity. There is no “godhead”.....trinitarians made that up.

 

[Wrangler]

Calling Jesus “theos” was simply confirming his divinity....not his deity. There is no “godhead”.....trinitarians made that up.

Trinitarians do not want to differentiate between OF God (divine) and being God (deity).

One poster claimed we are all God. When I said we are not our own Creator, he agreed.

This reveals the rock, the foundation upon which trinitarianism is based; the rejection of logic, of the principle of mutual exclusiveness and the embrace of mystical dualism. They will agree with everything you say about theos and logos and Jesus being the son of God. However, they then throw in their illogical AND. And he's God the Son.

Some here have even resorted to claiming Jesus is YHWH in the flesh.

They just make up stuff to support their dogma, feeling no confines from
1. Definition
2. Logic
3. Language Usage
4. Explicit Scripture

 

[CadyandZoe]

Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Two questions.

Who was it that "took upon him the form of a servant"?

And,

Considering that he "became obedient", does this mean that he was "not obedient" before becoming obedient?

Let's follow this through, can we?

Much love!

Marks,
Theologians debate this passage and the central question is this. "In what way did Jesus empty himself? Did he empty himself by taking on the form of a human being? Or did he empty himself by taking on the form of a bond servant?

I think Paul meant the later. From the flow of his exhortation, we understand the Apostle is citing our Lord's attitude as one that we must emulate. (verse 5) That is, no matter what our social standing might actually be within the community, we ought to adopt the Lord's humble attitude. In view of this, and since Paul has drawn a direct comparison between our experience and the Lord's we know that the Apostle does not expect us to lower ourselves from Godhood to manhood. Instead, we are to give up the presumption of our actual social standing and adopt the attitude of a servant just as the Lord did.

The manner in which Jesus lived out his humiliation was to adopt the attitude of a humble servant, obeying the father even unto death. (Verse 8) Therefore, the manner in which we should live out our own humiliation is to adopt the same attitude as our Lord, which is the attitude of a humble servant. (Verse 3 and 4)

Who was it that "took upon him the form of a servant"?
I assume you are asking whether it was "God the Word" or "Jesus the man?" I think Paul is speaking about Jesus the man. And this raises an interesting point. If I understand what Paul meant by "form" I think his assertion is centered on Jesus the man, when he says, "he existed in the form of God." What do I mean?

When we read verse 6, our mind is immediately drawn to "the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being." And we naturally conclude, from Paul's statement, that Jesus previously existed as the creator. But if one considers the alternate meaning of "theos" the mind is not immediately drawn to the creator.

Jesus referred to himself as the "Son of God", and he drew his meaning from Old Testament revelation. 2 Samuel 7:13-15 In the Ancient Near East, Egypt for example, the Pharaoh considered himself to be the embodiment of God and many of the kings referred to themselves as "sons of God." In 2 Samuel 7, The Lord declared that he will consider a son of David's to be a son of God. He tells David, "He will be a son to me." Later in the eighth Psalm, David marveled that God would give a mere man such an exalted status, placing a mere man over all creation,

So then, when Paul asserts that Jesus existed in the form of God, he speaks of his elevated status as the son of God. Jesus was the Son of God and from this elevated status, he deserved to be treated accordingly. Instead, Jesus adopted the role of a humble servant. He deserved to be treated like God's son but he didn't insist on that.

By contrast, the servants of the Son of God were called "men". The Son of God is called "God", while the common servant is called "man." So then, although the man Jesus existed in the form of God, i.e. he was second in command just below the creator, he took on the form of "man", i.e. a servant of God. A similar relationship is exemplified in the Exodus account. Exodus 7:1 "See I will make you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron will be your prophet." Moses wasn't actually God, but he was to take on that role when he went to visit Pharaoh. Likewise, God assigned that role to Jesus. "I will be a father to him and he will be a son to me."

For this reason and because the term "men" was employed in reference to the common man, Paul wrote, "but [he, Jesus] emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men." Paul means to say that Jesus was made in the likeness of the common man, as opposed to the son of God. He existed as the Son of God, but he lived like the common man. The term "made" in this context means "recognized." Although Jesus was actually deserving of the highest rank possible among men, his people made him out to be a common person.

Considering that he "became obedient", does this mean that he was "not obedient" before becoming obedient?
Jesus was always obedient to the Father. He was becoming obedient in the sense that he arose in history and appeared in public as a humble servant.

Sorry for the long post. I was using the opportunity to work out my own thoughts on the matter. Thanks.

 

[Robert Gwin]

If this is true, 2 things:

1. Jesus died in vain for death (total, not partial) is the penalty for sin.
2. Jesus is not the firstfruits of the resurrection. 1 Cor 25:23

God's perfect unchanging law is soul for soul Wrangler. A perfect man who was the original father of every human sinned prior to having children, therefore he lost life for the entire human race, as imperfection cannot produce perfection. Therefore God sent His son to be born from woman, making him a perfect human, as his father was perfect. He remained perfect and was sacrificed, giving his life thus satisfying God's law of life for life. Hence the Bible tells us at: (1 Corinthians 15:45) . . .it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Although others were resurrected before Jesus, Jesus was the first to be resurrected to heaven and given immortality, therefore he is listed as the first of the firstfruits: (1 Corinthians 15:20-23) . . .But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death. 21 For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.

I don't really know why you responded the way you did Wrangler, but I believe you believe this as well.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Two questions.

Who was it that "took upon him the form of a servant"?

The spirit being who was already God’s “only begotten son” in heaven, became a human to offer the redemption price set by God’s perfect standard of justice, which requires equivalency.....like for like....”eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life”.
Sinless life was lost for all of Adam’s children, and a sinless life was the price of their redemption. This is why Jesus had to become a human from outside the flawed human race that descended from Adam.

And,

Considering that he "became obedient", does this mean that he was "not obedient" before becoming obedient?

Let's follow this through, can we

He was always obedient to his Father and served his interests in heaven, and with regard to mankind on the earth, being given the role as Mediator. His obedience as a human was also perfect, unlike those subject to sin. There had been no perfectly obedient humans since Adam ‘s creation, so he was the first one to demonstrate what Adam failed to do. Despite the devil’s temptations, he did not once succumb to any of them, but kept to his assignment and successfully completed it in every aspect. As “God’s holy servant”, (Acts 4:27) he obeyed his Father in everything.

 

[marks]

Considering that he "became obedient", does this mean that he was "not obedient" before becoming obedient?
Jesus was always obedient to the Father. He was becoming obedient in the sense that he arose in history and appeared in public as a humble servant.

Sorry for the long post. I was using the opportunity to work out my own thoughts on the matter. Thanks.

That's something I enjoy about a forum, the opportunity to work through my own thoughts.

I think that before His incarnation, Jesus, the Messenger of YHWH, there wasn't a matter of "obedience", as such, YHWH, and His Messenger, always acted in concert, being fully One. That when Immanuel tabernacled with us, then being in human flesh He now had a flesh nature, though uncorrupted. But in that nature lay the potential to act not according to His Own spirit nature, but He had the opportunity to act according to the flesh nature.

So living with His flesh in constant subjection, and subjecting His Own will, now as a man, to the Father, this is what is meant.

I think that Paul's writing, though making this particular point in this place, harmonizes with all the other places which speak of Jesus' deity and pre-existence.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Although others were resurrected before Jesus, Jesus was the first to be resurrected to heaven and given immortality, therefore he is listed as the first of the firstfruits: (1 Corinthians 15:20-23) . . . But now Christ has been raised from the dead,

You keep saying this, but you don't even believe Jesus Christ is real. You don't believe Jesus raised from the dead, you believe Michael the archangel left "Jesus", now a dead body to be disposed of, and returned to being Michael, after first deceiving a bunch of people that Jesus rose bodily from the dead, when in fact no such thing happened.

I'm happy to have had this opportunity to refresh myself on JW beliefs, and to learn more about JW beliefs. I'm just amazed at how much deception and lying are woven into your ideas about God, and the Gospel.

Jesus said, I am the way, and the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father but by Me. By Jesus, not angels.

Much love!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Praying that stone hearts become hearts of flesh, led by the Spirit. That blinded eyes & stopped up hears are opened to hear the truth through God's Spirit ! That freedom will come to those bound by indoctrination & control by man's words in a heretical private interpetion of what thus saith God thru his word of truth !

 

[Aunty Jane]

You keep saying this, but you don't even believe Jesus Christ is real.

Are you serious? Who said we don't believe Jesus Christ is real? He was as real as you and I.....so there is your first mistake.
We do not believe that Jesus is, or ever was "God". (Yahweh)....but we do believe that he was a real flesh and blood human.
He did not need to be God to give his life to redeem humankind.....and besides, Yahweh is immortal and cannot die.

You don't believe Jesus raised from the dead, you believe Michael the archangel left "Jesus", now a dead body to be disposed of, and returned to being Michael, after first deceiving a bunch of people that Jesus rose bodily from the dead, when in fact no such thing happened.

Again what a load of rubbish!.....Jesus was raised in spirit form. (1 Peter 3:18)
John 17:3-6
"This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was."
Jesus was returning to the glory he had at his Father's side before his earthly mission......returning to the spirit being he was before he became a human. He was always the "son of God", but never "God the Son". That designation does not exist in scripture.
Whether Michael was the pre-human Jesus or not makes not a scrap of difference to his mission....or the success of it. Jesus has many names in the Bible depending upon what role he is playing. The Archangel Michael fits the role Jesus had in heaven as Commander of the angelic forces. It fits the description of one who has an archangel's voice in 1 Thessalonians 4:16. Why would Jesus have an Archangel's voice if he wasn't the Archangel?

I'm happy to have had this opportunity to refresh myself on JW beliefs, and to learn more about JW beliefs. I'm just amazed at how much deception and lying are woven into your ideas about God, and the Gospel.

If you post is any indication of how well you listen, then perhaps you need to think again...?

I was raised in Christendom and I was amazed at how much deception and lies were taught to me in my childhood and on into my early twenties. It wasn't until I actually studied the scriptures that I realized how far Christendom had deviated from what Christ taught. There is no trinity in the Bible...no immortal soul....and no hell.....all lies....right up there with "Mary the mother of God" "the Pope" and "purgatory". The errors you accept as truth go way back, so you probably grew up thinking Christendom taught Bible truth.....but they never have.....and they don't even know how many errors they have embraced as truth.

You seem shocked that we could think you are all in error, but the errors are so old that none of you recognize them for what they are....
The Jews did exactly the same thing.....when Jesus arrived, Judaism had also deviated from the teachings of Moses, and yet they had the temerity to accuse Jesus and his apostles of apostasy! They were the apostate blasphemers!

What did Jesus say about the Jewish leaders...?
"You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matthew 15:7-9)

This applies equally to Christendom......the "weeds" of Jesus parable.

History is repeating right under your noses but you cannot see it....

Jesus said, I am the way, and the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father but by Me. By Jesus, not angels.

No one comes to the Father except through God's son (John 6:65).....so if you don't think we believe that perhaps you need to check with us about what we actually do believe, instead of making things up.

 

[Robert Gwin]

You keep saying this, but you don't even believe Jesus Christ is real. You don't believe Jesus raised from the dead, you believe Michael the archangel left "Jesus", now a dead body to be disposed of, and returned to being Michael, after first deceiving a bunch of people that Jesus rose bodily from the dead, when in fact no such thing happened.

I'm happy to have had this opportunity to refresh myself on JW beliefs, and to learn more about JW beliefs. I'm just amazed at how much deception and lying are woven into your ideas about God, and the Gospel.

Jesus said, I am the way, and the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father but by Me. By Jesus, not angels.

Much love!

I guess it is rather simple Marks, either the spirit being that became Jesus died, or Jesus died and returned to his previous life. It was not the spirit being who was sacrificed, rather it was Jesus, the equal ransom paid to release humans for sin and death. Sacrificing an infinitely superior spirit being would not be an equal ransom sir. I really do not understand why you think that, and I am at a loss on how to reason with you on it. Perhaps we can reason this way, we both agree the man who became Jesus existed prior to becoming a man, who was it God sent?

 

[Behold]

1.) Who was it that "took upon him the form of a servant"?

And,

2.) Considering that he "became obedient", does this mean that he was "not obedient" before becoming obedient?

Who became a servant?

A.) God in the Flesh. 1 Timothy 3:16

B.) The living Bread who came down from Heaven. John 6:51 This is Jesus as the WORD of God, in John 1.


Was Jesus not obedient before becoming obedient?

No.
Jesus was always obedient to the Father's will, but because Jesus was a human being, with feelings, emotions, fully MAN....He also had free will. So, when Divine orders came, He had the free will option......regarding them all, including going to the Cross.
So, as a Human, Jesus had to learn ...

Notice this verse.

Hebrews 5:8

"Jesus LEARNED obedience by-through.....the things He SUFFERED"...
See that?
That is Jesus the Human, down here in this filthy pit of a world, having to deal with it, so that He could go to the Cross for you having perfectly completed His MISSION.

 

[JunChosen]

There is no “godhead”.....trinitarians made that up

Acts 17:28-29 stipulates:
28) For in him (JESUS) we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29) Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to thing that the GODHEAD is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Colossians 2:9 declare:
"For in him (JESUS) dwelleth all the fullness of the GODHEAD bodily."

Romans 1:20-21 reads:
20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD; so that they are without excuse:
21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God,
neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

When people try to reason without Scripture references, their whole spiritual understanding falls apart, and worse, they come under the warning of God set forth in Hosea 4:6 which reads:
"My people are destroyed: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

To God Be The Glory

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Who was it that "took upon him the form of a servant"?

Very good.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Acts 17:28-29 stipulates:
28) For in him (JESUS) we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29) Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to thing that the GODHEAD is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Colossians 2:9 declare:
"For in him (JESUS) dwelleth all the fullness of the GODHEAD bodily."

Romans 1:20-21 reads:
20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD; so that they are without excuse:
21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God,
neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

From the KJV? Do you know who translated the KJV?.....Trinitarians.
How does that scripture read in Greek?

"28 ‘ For gar in en him autos we live zaō and kai move kineō about and kai exist eimi,’ as hōs even kai some tis of ho your own kata poets poiētēs have said legō, ‘ For gar we eimi too kai are eimi his ho offspring genos.’ 29 So oun since we are hyparchō the offspring genos of ho God theos, we ought opheilō not ou to think nomizō that the ho divine being theios is eimi like homoios an image carved charagma in gold chrysos or ē silver argyros or ē stone lithos by human anthrōpos skill technē and kai imagination enthumēsis." (Acts 17:28-29 Mounce Interlinear)

No Godhead. The "divine being" here is Yahweh, not Jesus.

What about Colossians 2:9?....

"For hoti in en him autos the ho whole pas fullness plērōma of ho deity theotēs dwells katoikeō in bodily sōmatikōs form".
Again, no Godhead. Jesus is "the fullness of deity in bodily form".....it doesn't say that he was deity in bodily form.

Colossians 1:15 says that he is "the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation".
Does Paul contradict himself?

Romans 1:20-21...

"20 Ever since apo the creation ktisis of the world kosmos, · ho his autos invisible aoratos attributes , · ho that te is , his autos eternal aidios power dynamis and kai divine theiotēs nature , have been clearly seen kathoraō, being understood noeō through what ho has been made poiēma. So eis they autos are eimi without excuse anapologētos. 21 Even dioti though they knew ginōskō · ho God theos, they did doxazō not ou honor doxazō him as hōs God theos or ē give eucharisteō him thanks , but alla they became futile mataioō in en · ho their autos speculations dialogismos and kai · ho their autos foolish asynetos hearts kardia were darkened."

No Godhead here either.
There is no such word in the Bible. You see how the KJV interpreted three Greek words with one meaning?....all written to support something Christ never taught.

When people try to reason without Scripture references, their whole spiritual understanding falls apart, and worse, they come under the warning of God set forth in Hosea 4:6 which reads:
"My people are destroyed: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

Yep...when people trust biased old translations of the Bible, and rely on their accuracy instead of doing their own research, "their whole spiritual understanding falls apart"....God's warning to his chosen nation is a warning also to her counterpart....Christendom.

 

[marks]

Very good.

Why do you say this? What is your thought here?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

My

Why do you say this? What is your thought here?

Much love!

My thought is that you teased out something that I had never seen anyone tease out when having the debate….

 

[JunChosen]

Yep...when people trust biased old translations of the Bible, and rely on their accuracy instead of doing their own research, "their whole spiritual understanding falls apart"....God's warning to his chosen nation is a warning also to her counterpart....Christendom.

I don't have to research the accuracy of the Bible because I know, without a doubt, that God wrote it, (I was not there when He did) and God does everything perfectly. Jesus confirmed it in Matthew 5:18 and Luke 16:17.

The reason I like the KJV of the Bible is because the printer warns the English reader that all italicized words written are not in the original manuscripts.

As Paul would say it, "Let God Be true and all men liars."

To God Be The Glory

 

[Aunty Jane]

I don't have to research the accuracy of the Bible because I know, without a doubt, that God wrote it, (I was not there when He did) and God does everything perfectly. Jesus confirmed it in Matthew 5:18 and Luke 16:17.

The reason I like the KJV of the Bible is because the printer warns the English reader that all italicized words written are not in the original manuscripts.

As Paul would say it, "Let God Be true and all men liars."

To God Be The Glory

Sadly you trust those whom Jesus warned were promoting things inspired.....not by God...but by the devil. He warned about the “weeds” that would be sown by God’s adversary to draw people away from the true God, and from the truth of his word. You are not relying on God’s word at all, but a sad imitation or counterfeit with translations of the original writings into languages that could be manipulated to suggest things that Christ never taught.

The KJV is regarded by many as the only translation they will accept simply because of how long it has been in existence, but the “weeds” who translated it were not sown in recent times.....they began to be sown after the death of the apostles, who restrained a looming apostasy back in apostolic times, until the word of God was complete. The apostle John wrote the final books at the close of the first century, so beginning in the second century, there was a slow and steady decline in the purity of Jesus’ teachings. As Jesus warned, and as Peter and Paul warned, ravenous wolves would enter the congregations and lead the people after themselves. (Matthew 7:15-20; 2 Peter 2:1-3; 1 Timothy 4:1-3)

By the 4th century, Christianity was in such a weak spiritual state, that a ‘take over’ by a pagan Roman Emperor changed the course of Christianity forever....Roman Catholicism was declared the state religion....not because this Emperor was a Christian convert, but because he was an astute politician. To consolidate his divided empire he fused pagan Roman religious beliefs and customs with what had become of corrupt Christianity by then.......and the Roman Catholic church became the only “Christianity” among the population, but it was merely Roman religion repackaged and re-labeled.....pagan beliefs disguised with a thin veneer of Christianity grafted over it. This is what people today think is genuine Christianity....when nothing could be further from the truth. If you follow Christendom’s foundational beliefs, you are part of that ancient counterfeit belief system.

Confronting as this might seem, this is exactly what the first Christians were faced with when the corruption of the Jewish leaders was exposed by Jesus who boldly revealed the rot......but that did not stop the majority of the Jewish people from rejecting his truth to retain the comfortable lies that they had been fed for centuries. (John 8:44)

History is repeating because the devil has no new tricks, and he has had time up his sleeve.....doing his best to turn people away from the truth by presenting a counterfeit.....those who believed the wrong people would stay with the lies they were raised with, or were persuaded to accept. Those who followed Jesus came out of that corrupt system and banded together as disciples of Christ....these were then in line for the blessings that the stubborn ones who refused to accept an inconvenient truth, and instead clung to convenient lies, missed out on. (Matthew 21:42-43; Matthew 23:37-39)

Why do you think Jesus said that “few” would be found on the cramped and narrow road to life? (Matthew 7:13-14)
Those who think their Christianity is genuine when it is not, will be in for a complete rejection by the one they claim to serve as their “Lord”. (Matthew 7:21-23)

What will Jesus say to us on that day? We all have to ask that question.