Unanswered Question Concerning Jesus' Deity

[marks]

Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Two questions.

Who was it that "took upon him the form of a servant"?

And,

Considering that he "became obedient", does this mean that he was "not obedient" before becoming obedient?

Let's follow this through, can we?

Much love!

 

[Robert Gwin]

Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Two questions.

Who was it that "took upon him the form of a servant"?

And,

Considering that he "became obedient", does this mean that he was "not obedient" before becoming obedient?

Let's follow this through, can we?

Much love!

It was Jesus took on the slaves form Mark, and he was always obedient, even after he becoming that slave. A perfect individual is not allowed to sin and retain perfection. Perfect in this aspect means sinless sir.
The original word used for become was:
givnomai Ginomai (ghin'-om-ahee);
Word Origin: Greek, Verb, Strong #: 1096

1. to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2. to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
   1. of events
3. to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
   1. of men appearing in public
4. to be made, finished
   1. of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5. to become, be made

Notice how come to pass, or happen could have been used by the translator, which may have been more appropriate, as Jesus did remain sinless, and still to date has not sinned.

 

[marks]

It was Jesus took on the slaves form Mark,

Yes we believe Jesus is Michael, he was not called Jesus prior to coming to earth sir, and resumed his identity when he returned to heaven. Would you like some reasoning on Michael being Jesus?

Which is your real answer?

and he was always obedient

You don't seem to think Jesus really exists, though. He was only the temporary identity of Michael the archangel. Isn't that what you've said?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Jesus Christ, Being in the form of God, took on the form of a servant.

Do you believe this?

 

[Wrangler]

Two questions.

1. Who was it that "took upon him the form of a servant"?

And,

2. Considering that he "became obedient", does this mean that he was "not obedient" before becoming obedient?

1. Christ.
2. You might have forgot to add, became obedient unto death. This distinguishes our lord from his God and Father, who is eternal and cannot die: Jesus died.

We all know Mark that you are trying to ask a trick question but the word of God revealed your attempt to blur what Scripture makes clear. And so to answer your question, until one acts to the limit, they did not take such action. It does not mean there was disobedience before. Rather, the obedience was not to the mortal limit of Christ, who Scripture repeatedly says was a man. Why is Scripture saying Jesus is a man not good enough for you?

 

[marks]

1. Christ.
2. You might have forgot to add, became obedient unto death. This distinguishes our lord from his God and Father, who is eternal and cannot die: Jesus died.

We all know Mark that you are trying to ask a trick question but the word of God revealed your attempt to blur what Scripture makes clear. And so to answer your question, until one acts to the limit, they did not take such action. It does not mean there was disobedience before. Rather, the obedience was not to the mortal limit of Christ, who Scripture repeatedly says was a man. Why is Scripture saying Jesus is a man not good enough for you?

This is no trick, this is a serious question, and best answered for one's self.

No, it does not mean He was disobedient before. He was Sovereign. There was a "before". Think about it.

And that "He cannot die", this is answered directly in the Psalms and in Hebrews, A body you have prepared for Me, that body prepared for the purpose of offering it in death, for our salvation.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Two questions.

Who was it that "took upon him the form of a servant"?

And,

Considering that he "became obedient", does this mean that he was "not obedient" before becoming obedient?

Let's follow this through, can we?

Much love!

If a man's brain tells his right hand to go downward, whose hand is it?
If a man's right hand reaches into darkness, whose hand is it?
If a man's right hand became beaten and is cut off, whose hand is it?

 

[ScottA]

Jesus Christ, Being in the form of God, took on the form of a servant.

Do you believe this?

Technically, "Christ" meaning "anointed" would not be attached to Jesus until He became a man...but the turnabout analogy is correct.

 

[marks]

If a man's brain tells his right hand to go downward, whose hand is it?
If a man's right hand reaches into darkness, whose hand is it?
If a man's right hand became beaten and is cut off, whose hand is it?

And seeing his hand in darkness, we still know it's his hand!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Technically, "Christ" meaning "anointed" would not be attached to Jesus until He became a man...but the turnabout analogy is correct.

Yes, we know Him differently in the Old Testament, as the Messenger of YHWH. And Paul writes, even though we knew Him according to the flesh, now no more that way.

You being the choir!

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

The Word became flesh, and became obedient to the Father by and through the Law which the Word born in flesh had become obedient to doing the will of the Father.

That is my thoughts on it though.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Two questions.

Who was it that "took upon him the form of a servant"?

And,

Considering that he "became obedient", does this mean that he was "not obedient" before becoming obedient?

Let's follow this through, can we?

Much love!

"The word became flesh and dwelt among us"
The "word" here is the Greek "logos" which has a broad definition, but refers to communication or something spoken. So, before His incarnation Jesus was God speaking to His creation, not an angel or some created entity, but God’s interaction with creation. People argue over whether or not Jesus pre existed His creation, but that's a given in that He created all things (not all other things.)

Trinitarians picture God as three persons before creation and Genesis 1:1 suggests that in the use of Elohim, but it seems irrelevant to me in that we worship One God, not 3, who is revealed in three persons.
Jesus is God in the flesh. God became a man in order to reveal Himself, His character, not His appearance, because God is Spirit, immortal and invisible. Since Jesus will reign forever, it's also clear that God chose to take the form of a man, even that of a servant, forever. (Either that or we'll all eventually give up this form.)

 

[Robert Gwin]

Which is your real answer?



You don't seem to think Jesus really exists, though. He was only the temporary identity of Michael the archangel. Isn't that what you've said?

Much love!

Jesus the human no longer exists Marks, but he is still referred to as Jesus in the Bible even though he returned to being the individual he was prior to his coming.

 

[marks]

Jesus the human no longer exists Marks, but he is still referred to as Jesus in the Bible even though he returned to being the individual he was prior to his coming.

So once again, I'm to read plainly stated Scriptures, but not accept what they say.

I'm not about to start disbelieving my Bible.

In your religion, Michael, an angel, took on the personna of someone else, and then went back to being who he was. This is not what the Bible teaches. You can only come to that if you outright reject the plain sayings of the Bible.

Revelation 22:17-21 KJV
17) And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20) He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21) The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Guess Who is coming back. It's going to be Jesus Christ.

It's the same One Who came before.

Philippians 2:5-8 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

The Bible does not lie.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So, before His incarnation Jesus was God speaking to His creation, not an angel or some created entity, but God’s interaction with creation.

This description is a lot like how I think of Jesus pre-incarnate. The Messenger of YHWH, God Who can come to corrupted man without destroying him. God's expression of Himself that is such that we can meet with Him, interact with Him. In the same way I see His Holy Spirit, the vitality of His life that procedes from Him filling all that is. And that God is Life itself, and all that is from God is as alive as God is, the same life, undiminished in His three persons, the Father, the Messenger, the Holy Spirit. And the Messenger, the Logos, became flesh, and dwelt among us.

Much love!

 

[Robert Gwin]

So once again, I'm to read plainly stated Scriptures, but not accept what they say.

I'm not about to start disbelieving my Bible.

In your religion, Michael, an angel, took on the personna of someone else, and then went back to being who he was. This is not what the Bible teaches. You can only come to that if you outright reject the plain sayings of the Bible.

Revelation 22:17-21 KJV
17) And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20) He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21) The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Guess Who is coming back. It's going to be Jesus Christ.

It's the same One Who came before.

Philippians 2:5-8 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

The Bible does not lie.

Much love!

Jesus will be returning sir, on this we agree, of course he is not coming in the flesh, and he likely is not coming for the reasons you think. In the very near future, Jesus will return to remove satan and his demons to the abyss, and to remove the goats. You can read this for yourself at 2 Thes 1:6-9

 

[marks]

Jesus will be returning sir, on this we agree, of course he is not coming in the flesh, and he likely is not coming for the reasons you think. In the very near future, Jesus will return to remove satan and his demons to the abyss, and to remove the goats. You can read this for yourself at 2 Thes 1:6-9

I thought you said Jesus doesn't exist anymore. That He turned back into Michael. Are you saying Michael will turn back into Jesus again? Why would he do that?

Is it Jesus? Or is it Michael? What is real to you?

Much love!

 

[farouk]

This description is a lot like how I think of Jesus pre-incarnate. The Messenger of YHWH, God Who can come to corrupted man without destroying him. God's expression of Himself that is such that we can meet with Him, interact with Him. In the same way I see His Holy Spirit, the vitality of His life that procedes from Him filling all that is. And that God is Life itself, and all that is from God is as alive as God is, the same life, undiminished in His three persons, the Father, the Messenger, the Holy Spirit. And the Messenger, the Logos, became flesh, and dwelt among us.

Much love!

@marks That John chapter 1 passage is truly sublime......

 

[Robert Gwin]

I thought you said Jesus doesn't exist anymore. That He turned back into Michael. Are you saying Michael will turn back into Jesus again? Why would he do that?

Is it Jesus? Or is it Michael? What is real to you?

Much love!

As you can see, we still refer to him as Jesus. It is true that Jesus no longer exists, he fulfilled his purpose, and God's spirit son that took on that role did indeed return to heaven as his former self. Yes we believe he is Michael, the highest angel, God's firstborn son created solely by His hands, His very first creation. The spirit son of God did not sacrifice his spirit life for humans, rather his human life.

 

[Wrangler]

As you can see, we still refer to him as Jesus. It is true that Jesus no longer exists, he fulfilled his purpose, and God's spirit son that took on that role did indeed return to heaven as his former self. Yes we believe he is Michael, the highest angel, God's firstborn son created solely by His hands, His very first creation. The spirit son of God did not sacrifice his spirit life for humans, rather his human life.

If this is true, 2 things:

1. Jesus died in vain for death (total, not partial) is the penalty for sin.
2. Jesus is not the firstfruits of the resurrection. 1 Cor 25:23