Typical questions people ask about the Olivet Discourse.

[Timtofly]

God slew 24,000 Israelites (and many more).

Did God slay Moses?

Did Moses disobey God, like all who disobeyed God?

You asked why they were killed, not if we thought they were literally dead.

Once one is physically dead or no longer alive on the earth, can they continue to disobey God in the after life?

When one is cut off, one is still alive on the earth, no? The Israelites of the last 2,000 years are not natural branches. They are cut off. They have to be grafted in like all the Gentiles through faith in Jesus Christ.

Being elect is their eternal destination. Enjoying God's promises on earth, is their earthly reward. Having a long fruitful life is God's blessing.

 

[Timtofly]

You don't believe Paul or Peter or the Holy Spirit who inspired them.

You don't make any sense, that is why I don't believe you.

You have yet to prove any point you have made.

 

[3 Resurrections]

There we go again, the FALSE Preterist's idea that Greek 'aion' in Matt.24:3 is better translated as "age" instead of "world", FALSELY suggesting Jesus's disciples were NOT pointing to the very last day of this world...

You are fighting against the Greek language itself by trying to make the word "aion" for "age" mean the same thing as "oikoumene" or "kosmos" which means "world".

Scripture presents the continuation of regular human history progressing even AFTER Christ's bodily return to the Mount of Olives. I could give you a list of such scriptures, if I thought you might consider them.

 

[covenantee]

Are you kidding me? Let me remind you of what my Bible teacher once said to me. "It is customary to bring a Bible to a Bible discussion." Apparently, you didn't read the material, so I will quote it for you.

Matthew 24:16-22

. . . then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.​

no life would have been saved
Here the Lord Jesus Christ warns of an existential threat to the Jewish people. Something is coming, according to Jesus, which will jeopardize the continued being of the Jewish people. He warns those living in Judea to flee to the mountains. He warns those on the housetops to avoid going down to get things. He warns those in the field to avoid going back to get a cloak. He warns them to pray that their flight will not be in the winter or a Sabbath. Jesus is talking about a critical challenge to Jewish existence itself.

Unless those days had been cut short,
Once it begins, not only will the Jewish people be immediately under threat of extinction, but they will constantly be under threat of extinction for a very long time.

For then there will be a great tribulation
Jesus is speaking about Jewish tribulation, which will continue for so long that it threatens the very existence of the Jewish people. He predicted that if God did not eventually put a stop to it, antisemitism would eventually lead to Jewish genocide.

History doesn't kid. It records the flight of the Judeaean Christians (the Elect) to Pella prior to 70 AD. That included Jewish Christians.

There were also Jews in other nations. (Acts 2:5)

There was never any threat to the existence of the Jewish people.

 

[covenantee]

Are you asking because you don't know? What's your point?

If you're unable or unwilling to respond, please don't.

 

[covenantee]

I showed where it did.

Scripture shows that it doesn't.

 

[covenantee]

You don't make any sense, that is why I don't believe you.

You have yet to prove any point you have made.

But Paul, Peter, and the Holy Spirit make sense. They prove all points.

 

[covenantee]

Did Moses disobey God, like all who disobeyed God?

You asked why they were killed, not if we thought they were literally dead.

Once one is physically dead or no longer alive on the earth, can they continue to disobey God in the after life?

When one is cut off, one is still alive on the earth, no? The Israelites of the last 2,000 years are not natural branches. They are cut off. They have to be grafted in like all the Gentiles through faith in Jesus Christ.

Being elect is their eternal destination. Enjoying God's promises on earth, is their earthly reward. Having a long fruitful life is God's blessing.

Moses lived a full life. Did he ask for and receive forgiveness?

The 24,000 did not live full lives. Did they ask for and receive forgiveness?

The answers are evident.

 

[MatthewG]

A good question was Jesus lying about having John alive when he returned?

John the beloved Apostle is dead and gone now.

Did Jesus pick him up? Did Jesus lie?

If Jesus lied, hell you can’t trust him. You definitely can’t trust what anyone else has to say about the Bible too. They may be lying to you, based on their own false conceptions.

 

[3 Resurrections]

A good question was Jesus lying about having John alive when he returned?

Of course Jesus didn't lie. That "disciple whom Jesus loved" in John 21:22 was Lazarus - NOT John the son of Zebedee which Christ had predicted would die a death like the Master's. Lazarus died and Jesus resurrected him, changed into an immortal, glorified body, just a little while before Christ's crucifixion (John 11).

Lazarus standing at the foot of the cross was the one to whom the dying Christ Jesus committed the care of His mother; a resurrected man who could never die again, get sick, commit a sin, or be injured in any way at all. Jesus provided well for His mother's care before He left this world.

And that "beloved disciple" was still alive on earth when Christ Jesus bodily returned to the Mount of Olives in that first-century generation. Jesus had predicted that some of those He personally spoke to would not have died before He returned in glory with the angels to give rewards according to everyone's deeds (Matthew 16:27-28). The resurrected Lazarus who was alive and had remained on earth until then was caught up to heaven back then, along with all the newly-resurrected saints who met the Lord together in the air.

 

[MatthewG]

Of course Jesus didn't lie. That "disciple whom Jesus loved" in John 21:22 was Lazarus - NOT John the son of Zebedee which Christ had predicted would die a death like the Master's. Lazarus died and Jesus resurrected him, changed into an immortal, glorified body, just a little while before Christ's crucifixion (John 11).

Lazarus standing at the foot of the cross was the one to whom the dying Christ Jesus committed the care of His mother; a resurrected man who could never die again, get sick, commit a sin, or be injured in any way at all. Jesus provided well for His mother's care before He left this world.

And that "beloved disciple" was still alive on earth when Christ Jesus bodily returned to the Mount of Olives in that first-century generation. Jesus had predicted that some of those He personally spoke to would not have died before He returned in glory with the angels to give rewards according to everyone's deeds (Matthew 16:27-28). The resurrected Lazarus who was alive and had remained on earth until then was caught up to heaven back then, along with all the newly-resurrected saints who met the Lord together in the air.

That is one thing to say, I disagree about the whole Lazarus idea. John though, I believe is the one being talked about. It’s not a huge deal to me personally, it’s still a good question, in my opinion.

Many miss small things like this; such as Did John continue to work until Jesus returned?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Many miss small things like this; such as Did John continue to work until Jesus returned?

He sure did. John Eleazar (Lazarus) supplied the material for the gospel of John, the epistles of 1, 2, and 3rd John, and the book of Revelation. Also, once John Eleazar's (Lazarus's) task of caring for Mary before she died in the 40's was finished, he was then commissioned by the early church to accompany Paul in his missionary journeys (going by the alias of Barnabas - the Son of consolation, who had consoled Mary after Christ's ascension to heaven).

 

[MatthewG]

He sure did. John Eleazar (Lazarus) supplied the material for the gospel of John, the epistles of 1, 2, and 3rd John, and the book of Revelation. Also, once John Eleazar's (Lazarus's) task of caring for Mary before she died in the 40's was finished, he was then commissioned by the early church to accompany Paul in his missionary journeys (going by the alias of Barnabas - the Son of consolation, who had consoled Mary after Christ's ascension to heaven).

I don’t know how true all that information is. It’s subjective for sure, sir, or ma’am. :)

 

[3 Resurrections]

I don’t know how true all that information is. It’s subjective for sure, sir, or ma’am

Well, it's verifiable in scripture that the "disciple whom Jesus loved" (Lazarus) was different from John the son of Zebedee. Very easy to prove.

John the fisherman, son of Zebedee, was not "known to the high priest" with direct access to the high priest's palace trial of Christ, and intimate knowledge of the name of the high priest's servant (Malchus). But the beloved disciple John Eleazar (Lazarus) was.

John 21:2 cp. verse 7 lists the disciple whom Jesus loved separately from the sons of Zebedee.

Also, John Eleazar (Lazarus) believed when he saw the opened sepulchre along with Peter. The other 11 disciples (minus Judas) were scolded that evening by Christ for their unbelief. That means this "beloved disciple" who believed was not one of the 11 disciples (minus Judas) who did not believe.

The beloved disciple also took Mary into his own home "that same hour" at Christ's crucifixion. This could not be true of John son of Zebedee, whose home was far away in Galilee. But it was true of John Eleazar (Lazarus) whose home was in Bethany, a short half-hour walk from the crucifixion site.

There were quite a few men named John that were circulating in the early church. John Eleazar (Lazarus) was different from John son of Zebedee, which was different from John surnamed Mark, which was different from John the Baptist, etc. But only one of them was bodily resurrected at the time, and would never die again.

 

[MatthewG]

Well, it's verifiable in scripture that the "disciple whom Jesus loved" (Lazarus) was different from John the son of Zebedee. Very easy to prove. John the fisherman, son of Zebedee, was not "known to the high priest" with direct access to the high priest's palace trial of Christ, and intimate knowledge of the name of the high priest's servant (Malchus). But the beloved disciple John Eleazar (Lazarus) was. John 21:2 cp. verse 7 lists the disciple whom Jesus loved separately from the sons of Zebedee. Also, John Eleazar (Lazarus) believed when he saw the opened sepulchre along with Peter. The other 11 disciples (minus Judas) were scolded that evening by Christ for their unbelief. That means this "beloved disciple" who believed was not one of the 11 disciples (minus Judas) who did not believe.

There were quite a few men named John that were circulating in the early church. John Eleazar (Lazarus) was different from John son of Zebedee, which was different from John surnamed Mark, which was different from John the Baptist, etc. But only one of them was bodily resurrected at the time, and would never die again.

While I appreciate you sharing your views with me. I just know John who was a disciple of Jesus, which I don’t know the last name. I just have faith that John, the one whom was with Jesus, was the one whom wrote it.

It’s debatable, and I have heard some of the arguments. While maybe your correct, I’ll just stay where I am as far as my understanding goes right now.

 

[grafted branch]

Unless those days had been cut short,
Once it begins, not only will the Jewish people be immediately under threat of extinction, but they will constantly be under threat of extinction for a very long time.

For then there will be a great tribulation
Jesus is speaking about Jewish tribulation, which will continue for so long that it threatens the very existence of the Jewish people. He predicted that if God did not eventually put a stop to it, antisemitism would eventually lead to Jewish genocide.

Here’s something to think about or maybe discuss in your group, the days being cut short are almost always assumed to be ending sooner than it should. This isn’t necessarily true.

For example, we could say some kind of tribulation will happen at your work for five days but this plan has changed and now tribulation will be cut short to three days.

If the original tribulation was going to happen Monday through Friday, then there are several options as to what happens when it’s cut short. The tribulation could start on Monday as originally planned and end Wednesday, the tribulation could start later than originally planned by starting on Wednesday and ending Friday, or it could start Tuesday and end Thursday.

What I think should be considered is that the days shortened meaning a later start date does agree with a few verses such as 2 Peter 3:9.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack <1019> (I am slow, I delay, tarry) concerning his promise, as some men count slackness <1022> (slowness, delay, tardiness) but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

Matthew 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

Revelation 10:6 (NIV) And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, “There will be no more delay!

 

[ewq1938]

No they don't. I thought everyone knew this. More than half of the New Testament questions whether Gentiles need to keep Moses. All of the Apostles agree that Gentiles don't need to keep Moses.

The new testament contains the law of God and Christians keep it, as best as any flawed humans have. You would need to specify old covenant law of God if that's what you meant. "the law of God" is simply any current enforced law by God upon his people/followers which since the cross would be new covenant law.

 

[Timtofly]

But Paul, Peter, and the Holy Spirit make sense. They prove all points.

I agree with their points. You don't.

 

[Timtofly]

Moses lived a full life. Did he ask for and receive forgiveness?

The 24,000 did not live full lives. Did they ask for and receive forgiveness?

The answers are evident.

What is your definition of a full life? You seem to claim a lot about the questions you ask. Where is your proof they were cut off?

Why can't you just answer a simple question?

 

[covenantee]

What is your definition of a full life? You seem to claim a lot about the questions you ask. Where is your proof they were cut off?

Why can't you just answer a simple question?

Is Numbers 25:9 in your Bible?

Why not open it once in a while for some answers?

And FYI, "cut off" is not the translation in any English version.

Stop substituting your personal falsifications.