Typical questions people ask about the Olivet Discourse.

[TribulationSigns]

Luke 21:20-24 is talking about the Jews, the 70 ad event.

 

[marks]

God cast out 24,000 of them in Numbers 25:9.

Tell us again why.

The nation, His promise was not to individuals, but to the nation.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Of course. And their sin brought God's judgment upon them. They weren't elect after God slew them.

The elect were those who continued in faith and obedience to God and His Covenant.

They lived.

The nation remained the chosen nation.

Much love!

 

[covenantee]

The nation, His promise was not to individuals, but to the nation.

Much love!

Every nation is comprised of its individuals.

 

[covenantee]

The nation remained the chosen nation.

Much love!

24,000 were chosen...to die. Many thousands more joined them.

2 Samuel 24
15 So the Lord sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men.

So much for your definition of chosen.

 

[ewq1938]

Christians do not keep the commandments of God.

Yes they do.

 

[Timtofly]

Ok, that’s my point, there is no true free will in a future millennium, limited will at best. Thanks for agreeing.


Have you ever seen the show Carbonaro Effect or Candid Camera? People being deceived is entertaining. Do people who are on these shows have the free will to prevent the deception prior to the deception being revealed? No, if people could prevent the deception they would do so and make themselves out to be astute. This is how deception and free will are linked.

Incidentally, I guess there won’t be any of this kind of entertainment happening in the millennium, it’s going to be more like boot camp where you get ruled with a rod of iron.


Was Peter a pre-programmed robot once he was told he would deny Jesus? If Peter could’ve used his free will to prevent the denial then Jesus tempted or tested God, Jesus would’ve taken the chance of making a false statement.

Peter’s will was that he would rather die than deny Jesus as he stated in Matthew 26:35. Here is a case where Peter didn’t have free will, he had to make the denial, which was against his will, else Jesus would’ve lied.

I wonder if Peter walked around like C-3PO or R2-D2?

You are using free will as a point of doing one's will. That is not what free will is.

You are assuming Peter had a choice after Jesus said those words.

Jesus removed Peter's choice, but Peter did not loose his free will. Peter was not free in that one particular instance. You are denying free will based on a choice that was taken away. Jesus did not take away Peter's free will, because he felt remorse and sorrow after the denial. If Peter had lost his will, as you propose, he would have felt denial was God's perfect will, when what Peter did was not God's Will nor Peter's. Jesus did not tell Peter to deny Jesus. Jesus just told him he would. When it happened Peter had no time to choose, not that he felt compelled to do something against his will. Can circumstances take away free will? I don't see how Peter was deceived or that he was coerced to do anything. Other than his sin nature acted out of impulse even against his own will.

Perhaps the woman was being annoying, and Peter was not even paying attention. Seems more like a warning to not let the world distract us, or even take us by surprise in the heat of the moment. But it takes a lot of practice to hold your tongue, when annoyed.

"And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord,"

Peter should have remembered prior to being annoyed, no?

When a person decides to follow a deception that is the choice they made of their own free will. The deception was a seemingly better offer than the correct choice.

No one can comprehend what the Millennium is supposed to be like. People cannot even comprehend what Adam and Eve were like prior to Adam's disobedience, and immediately following that choice.

Your argument only points to after one is deceived. Once a choice is made is when one enters into the deception. Obviously they have made their mind up, and still not being coerced to do something against their will.

You cannot dismiss the point that they still chose between what they were told is right by one party, and what was alleged to be right by the party trying to deceive them. Part of being deceived is not understanding the deception until it is too late.

The example can be made even under sin with human laws. Human laws don't have the spiritual consequences like God's Law has. One can still have the free will to choose between obedience to a human law or a loophole in the law that acts as a deception to obedience to that law. No one is forcing a person against their will to obey or break a law. The person will of their own free will do either.

 

[Timtofly]

Paul and Peter identify the Elect. They contradict you.

The elect are all of Israel as natural branches.

I don't believe you.

 

[Timtofly]

A question for you, since Bro. marks won't answer.

Numbers 25
9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

Explain why those 24,000 "chosen" ended up on the corpse pile.

Moses disobeyed God, and could not enter the Promised Land.

Are you claiming Moses is not one of God's elect?

 

[covenantee]

Moses disobeyed God, and could not enter the Promised Land.

Are you claiming Moses is not one of God's elect?

God slew 24,000 Israelites (and many more).

Did God slay Moses?

 

[covenantee]

The elect are all of Israel as natural branches.

I don't believe you.

You don't believe Paul or Peter or the Holy Spirit who inspired them.

 

[CadyandZoe]

What "existential threat" in what Scripture are you talking about?

Are you kidding me? Let me remind you of what my Bible teacher once said to me. "It is customary to bring a Bible to a Bible discussion." Apparently, you didn't read the material, so I will quote it for you.

Matthew 24:16-22

. . . then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.​

no life would have been saved
Here the Lord Jesus Christ warns of an existential threat to the Jewish people. Something is coming, according to Jesus, which will jeopardize the continued being of the Jewish people. He warns those living in Judea to flee to the mountains. He warns those on the housetops to avoid going down to get things. He warns those in the field to avoid going back to get a cloak. He warns them to pray that their flight will not be in the winter or a Sabbath. Jesus is talking about a critical challenge to Jewish existence itself.

Unless those days had been cut short,
Once it begins, not only will the Jewish people be immediately under threat of extinction, but they will constantly be under threat of extinction for a very long time.

For then there will be a great tribulation
Jesus is speaking about Jewish tribulation, which will continue for so long that it threatens the very existence of the Jewish people. He predicted that if God did not eventually put a stop to it, antisemitism would eventually lead to Jewish genocide.

 

[CadyandZoe]

A question for you, since Bro. marks won't answer.

Numbers 25
9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

Explain why those 24,000 "chosen" ended up on the corpse pile.

Are you asking because you don't know? What's your point?

 

[CadyandZoe]

You have more than one connotation. Scripture doesn't.

I showed where it did.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No, you don't even understand the context itself to begin with anyway.

What context? Care to share?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes they do.

No they don't. I thought everyone knew this. More than half of the New Testament questions whether Gentiles need to keep Moses. All of the Apostles agree that Gentiles don't need to keep Moses.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I could tell you my own thoughts about it to some degree or another, was there anything that you did get to ask anyone, what questions and what were some of the responses?

I'm sorry.
Due to circumstances, we haven't been able to continue our discussion. We had two or three discussions and I can report that our group has various opinions on the subject and no much unanimity. :) I think the questions will help, though.

 

[MatthewG]

I'm sorry.
Due to circumstances, we haven't been able to continue our discussion. We had two or three discussions and I can report that our group has various opinions on the subject and no much unanimity. :) I think the questions will help, though.

A big question could be, was John ever gotten?

Jesus replied, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? As for you, follow me.”

 

[Davy]

Oh, I am very certain about scripture's timing of the Olivet Discourse events. Christ and the scriptures are very clear concerning the timing when these would be fulfilled. These events Christ said were for the "end of the AGE" (aionos) - not an end of this global world (oikoumenen or kosmos).

There we go again, the FALSE Preterist's idea that Greek 'aion' in Matt.24:3 is better translated as "age" instead of "world", FALSELY suggesting Jesus's disciples were NOT pointing to the very last day of this world...

Matt 24:3
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?
KJV

Let's see, just what time would Christ's disciples be pointing to with that, "Thy coming,"? They were pointing to the day of Christ's FUTURE RETURN, the LAST DAY of this present world!!! So... easy! And Jesus said in Rev.16:15 that He comes "as a thief", linking the day of His coming with the "day of the Lord", which is the last day of this present world, and NOT past history like the Biblically illiterate lies!

3 Resurrections above is just passing on FALSE 'leaven' doctrines of the Preterist seminaries that developed that idea he espoused. That's just being a copycat of their's, and nothing more.

 

[TribulationSigns]

What context? Care to share?

You do not know? What chapter did we discuss? Does Matthew 24 ring a bell? You need to re-read our conversation and find out, genius. Regardless you got the interpreation for WHOLE chapter of Matthew 24 all wrong. This has NOTHING to do with Jews in the Middle East. But that is not surprising with the doctrines of Preterists, Premillennialists, and even some Amillennialists anyway. So no, you do not even get the context "OF" Matthew 24 correct.