Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

[brakelite]

The Personality of the Holy Spirit, for instance, is clear from Ephesians 4.30: a mere idea or influence cannot be grieved.

Agree with that. But why does that necessarily mean s3rd separate person? After all, isn't it described through as the spirit OF God?

 

[Dave L]

It never has been to me even though I was a dedicated Catholic until I graduated from high school in 1961 following Catholicism from a very pre- Vatican II point of view.


In the third Oneness Jesus Only assembly of which I was a part a brother explained to me in detail his doubts about the usual position of people within his organization. He was ostracized by some brothers as a heretic. I on, the other hand, agreed with much he had to say and it brought me close to the end of my time with Oneness groups [11 years total], but never close to a trinitarian view point. Now I am neither Oneness as per any familiar Oneness group nor am I trinitarian. I have been reading my Bible daily for a great many years since leaving the last Oneness group in 1987. While using scripture as a starting point for prayers I still cannot find either Oneness or Trinity as taught by any group or person I have encountered over the years... and I have encountered many.

I think the doctrine of the trinity is more than most can handle because God is not like anything we can try to compare him to. But as I meditate on the trinity my worship becomes awestruck in that God would let me see into his essence. We can see the trinity several places in the New Covenant. At Jesus' baptism, each member of the Godhead speaking of or spoken of by the others as distinctive individuals, yet all called God. It's there if you look for it. But this is what I've got from scripture so far about God.

He is the Spiritual and in himself he created time, space, and matter. All creatures great and small. And moves everything from the atom to every person or nation to fulfill his assigned plan for his glory. And where the material universe ends, God keeps going in all directions forever without beginning or end.

And within this single spiritual essence exist the Father person, who in love causes the Son person, who with the Father causes the Holy Spirit person in love. This static condition being eternal, time does not exist, so this does not involve change in God. But a constant eternal presence of the three persons.

The Holy Spirit and the Son love the Father person, the Father and the Holy Spirit love the Son person, and the Son and the Father love the Holy Spirit person. In scripture each speaks independently of the others and goes by YAHWEH in the Old Covenant, and Jesus Christ in the New Covenant.

If any can learn of this and meditate on it, it opens a whole new spirituality in worship.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all

It can be understood however (for I believe that I understand it), if one can seek the understanding that would come from the Holy Ghost.

correct, it can be understood. the scripture say so. Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse"

for there is no excuse not to know. God is a "ANOTHER" G243 allos of himself in flesh. it's just that easy.

and yes, the Holy Ghost is the only true God, JESUS. for the titles of Father, and the title Son are just that .... titles, not persons.

if one just examine the scriptures, the diversity of God in flesh is the answer to the terms Fasther, and Son who is the Holy Ghost in and diversified in flesh.

as before, all of the trinity so called trinity scriptures that was posted was reprove by the scriptures with understanding.

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

GINOLJC, to all

correct, it can be understood. the scripture say so. Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse"

for there is no excuse not to know. God is a "ANOTHER" G243 allos of himself in flesh. it's just that easy.

and yes, the Holy Ghost is the only true God, JESUS. for the titles of Father, and the title Son are just that .... titles, not persons.

if one just examine the scriptures, the diversity of God in flesh is the answer to the terms Fasther, and Son who is the Holy Ghost in and diversified in flesh.

as before, all of the trinity so called trinity scriptures that was posted was reprove by the scriptures with understanding.

PICJAG.

You are confusing the One being of God having three co-eternal persons, with one person having a split personality that changes into other roles. But a Father cannot be such without a Son, so as soon as the personality splits, both cease to exist.

 

[101G]

You are confusing the One being of God having three co-eternal parsons, with one person having a split personality that changes into other roles. But a Father cannot be such without a Son, so as soon as the personality splits, both cease to exist.

you have the spirit of "ERROR" ... split personality?, no the "SHARING" of ONE PERSON in Flesh. not two separate PERSONS, but a diversified PERSON in "ANOTHER" form as Phil 2:6-8 States.

the only thing that is split is your understanding of "diversity"....

now think dave, God came in flesh right, it only one God, so how did he come in flesh and be God at the same time? ... well. by sharing himself in that flesh. he took part in our humanity. not another personality of God, listen to the scripture, Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil".

"HE HIMSELF" is one person, read verse 14 again. HE, HE, HE, himself, ONE PERSON took part in our humanity. HE did.

he didn't split himself. but "SHARED" himself in flesh..... see your ERROR now?.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

here's another dilemma of your trinity. Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil".

now just a second, that there is a second person in your trinity. he said "he" himself took part in our flesh and blood. so the second person of your trinity is in the the body on earth. well here's your problem, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven".
Uh O, while the son was in the Body here on EARTH, he Jesus, the son said that he was in Heaven at the same time on EARTH. well if we use your trinity definition then you have a split son, or a split second PERSON .....

now instead of three you have four.

PICJAG

 

[Dave L]

you have the spirit of "ERROR" ... split personality?, no the "SHARING" of ONE PERSON in Flesh. not two separate PERSONS, but a diversified PERSON in "ANOTHER" form as Phil 2:6-8 States.

the only thing that is split is your understanding of "diversity"....

now think dave, God came in flesh right, it only one God, so how did he come in flesh and be God at the same time? ... well. by sharing himself in that flesh. he took part in our humanity. not another personality of God, listen to the scripture, Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil".

"HE HIMSELF" is one person, read verse 14 again. HE, HE, HE, himself, ONE PERSON took part in our humanity. HE did.

he didn't split himself. but "SHARED" himself in flesh..... see your ERROR now?.

PICJAG.

You are depicting God as having a split personality and trying to smooth it over calling it Diversified Oneness.

 

[101G]

Look up
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096

do you see where the root of this word is?
G1096 γίνομαι ginomai (ǰiy'-no-mai) v.
1. to cause to be (“gen”-erate).
2. (reflexively) to become (come into being).
3. (of events) to happen.

John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth".

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

Look up
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096

do you see where the root of this word is?
G1096 γίνομαι ginomai (ǰiy'-no-mai) v.
1. to cause to be (“gen”-erate).
2. (reflexively) to become (come into being).
3. (of events) to happen.

John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth".

PICJAG.

It's all double talk for split personality because the truth about what you say about God is sick.

 

[101G]

so no repove, no rebut?.... your double talk is spilling over to your split personality ...

we have so much fun with you. we know that you're "LEARNING", or rather trying to LEARN, 2 Timothy 3:7 "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth". ... (smile).

see dave this is not for you, so don't worry be happy... : those who cannot comprehend, ask God for wisdom.......

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

so no repove, no rebut?.... your double talk is spilling over to your split personality ...

we have so much fun with you. we know that you're "LEARNING", or rather trying to LEARN, 2 Timothy 3:7 "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth". ... (smile).

see dave this is not for you, so don't worry be happy... : those who cannot comprehend, ask God for wisdom.......

PICJAG.

If the pharisees were blind believing God is one person, doesn't that make you blind according to scripture too?

 

[101G]

double talk again, instead of worrying about the pharisees, just concertate on John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 and see what God say....

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

double talk again, instead of worrying about the pharisees, just concertate on John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 and see what God say....

PICJAG.

You need to join the New Covenant and drop your pharisaic views of God.

 

[101G]

well as usual no response. so let's get back to Revelation 1:1 was it the "Father" who sent "HIS" angel to John? or was it the Son who sent "HIS" angel to John. remember your trinity say the "Father" is distinct from the son....

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

well as usual no response. so let's get back to Revelation 1:1 was it the "Father" who sent "HIS" angel to John? or was it the Son who sent "HIS" angel to John. remember your trinity say the "Father" is distinct from the son....

PICJAG.

It all makes sense if you junk the pharisaism.

 

[farouk]

Agree with that. But why does that necessarily mean s3rd separate person? After all, isn't it described through as the spirit OF God?

John 14.26: "the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send".

Galatians 4.6: "God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts".

Clearly the witness of Scripture is that the Spirit is a distinct Person, Who is united in His activities with the Father and the Son.

 

[101G]

John 14.26: "the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send".

Galatians 4.6: "God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts".

Clearly the witness of Scripture is that the Spirit is a distinct Person, Who is united in His activities with the Father and the Son.

not trying to butt into your conversation. but how is the Spirit a distinct Person". you said, "Who is united in His activities with the Father and the Son". ok, if that's true, who made Man? the Father the Son, or as you say the "Spirit". take note: Jesus sasid this, Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female". and Genesis 5:1 & 2 say "he" made them. now Jesus cannot lie, nor his written word. scripture, Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. here we see it was the Spirit alone who made man. would you agree or not with the scriptures?. just asking for clarity.

PICJAG

 

[justbyfaith]

I think that I would say that the Holy Ghost is distinct from the Father but the same Person.

 

[Dave L]

I think that I would say that the Holy Ghost is distinct from the Father but the same Person.

= split personality = crazy.

 

[justbyfaith]

= split personality = crazy.

1Co 2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.